El Pinet

Here is something to discuss and I'm not trying to scare anyone.

Is El Pinet legal and the properties on MR9. Legal people step forward, the answer could effect us all.

Are we paying for something that could be taken away by law?

I'm no lawyer but .......after SJ were ( continuously ) taken to court by The Greens, didn't the judge in Madrid say the properties were entirely legal ?

I understand the next attempt by the Greens was to protest at the impact of the buildings on mosquitos !!!!

I have just had word from some friends who thought they had a buyer and were about to sell their place. The buyers solicitor has said officially that because we haven't got "Habitation" therefore no service therefore we should not be occupying the properties!!

Come on committee get some legal team to Elche, else I for one will not now be paying my money into the community. Its not legal to take money as we should not be there!

This is official and not scaremongering!

 I have two propertys at el pinet ,we have just recieved our bills for 100 euro we only use our property 4 times a year and have paid all monies previously requsted  i no longer see the point in paying when there is no action taken for the arrears mounting.

Hi jaybe

We have been paying every month but give the information from these friends and the lack of action to get CoH there is no point. We should have legal people on the case not admin trying to get money from the sensible majority. The owners who have taken legal advice and not paid a cent.

Those who read this check with your solicitor and see what they say.

I am using this forum for the first time and am driven to do so by the unfairness of some people towards Mick. i am astounded that so much personal criticism has be levied at him.Mick did last summer try to assist apartment owners, who always go withjout water, when the rest of the site does not.This is because of the way the tanking system is arranged. The apartment tank is always the first to be drained due to the complex feed system. He turned off the flow to the other tanks in order for the apartment tank to re-fill- a practice which had been undertaken by others since the begining of the problems with water.

Please show a little more tolerence at this time when we owners cannot sell, have virtually worthless assets and all we need are meters and Certs of H to rectify the situation.

Mick I can assure you has worked very hard and without him many problems would be far worse, for example it is he that has changewd street light bulbs when needed plus helped numerous neighbours.

We certainly do not want to loose this valuable Committee member due to emotional comments.

Lets please work together to bring this sorry mess to a satisfactory conclusion.

We have all tried to 'work together' or be 'as one', but  the facts are that we DO NOTowe anything. The so called adminisrators are trying to extort  money from people by threat . The ' committee ' bless have been out of their depth from the day they decided they would be the committee.  Its been Tyson v Beckham in a boxing ring.

Jmbarrie,  I know from others that Mick has assisted residents at El Pinet and I applaud anyone that helps a fellow neighbour.  The questions around Mick have arisen due to his unreasonable behaviour and taking action against non-paying residents.  Maybe you should ask around and find out how he reacts to people who oppose his views.  A society can only prosper if it acts within the rules, the trouble with Mick is that he only choses the ones that benefit himself.  I will give you an example, at the AGM there was a list of debtors that was handed to every attendee, voting rights at the AGM were withdrawn from resident owners on this list.  Mick and his wife are clearly shown on the list as debtors and therefore the right to vote at the AGM was not allowed and yet he voted in complete contradiction to the rules.  The list may have been incorrect, but the rules stated that you cannot vote if on the list.  I rest my case.

The administrators clearly stated that it is illegal to live at El Pinet.  Non-payers are to be persued through the courts. Many non-payes have not paid because it is illegal to be there and therefore no costs should be incurred whatsoever.  If residents such as Mick want to live there outside the rules, then that is an issue for them, but how do you think the courts are going to look upon illegal residents taking law-abiding owners to court for not paying for their illegal habitation.  I would love to use the swimming pools, or at least the one allocated to my apartment but the law does not allow it.  The illegal use of the pools will not be borne by me.  The administrators are fully aware that it takes 4 years to take non-payers through the courts.  My lawyers will make sure that the cost is fully borne by the people who insist on breaking habitable laws at the El Pinet site.

well said m2lou.

Once again, what a load of  lies from M2Lou.

Thanks JMBarrie for the nice and very true things you said about my husband.

The reason we were shown as owing 60 euros was because we had just returned from the UK and had not had time to pay . If you would care to access the accounts (you can do this via the administrators you will actually find that we are in credit.

By the way. I did not vote (had to leave the meeting for an appointment before the vote) my husband was outside and missed the vote anyway.  Lies again M2Lou. Are you sure you were actually at the right meeting!

We will actually ask you to your face why it is you have such a problem with Mick the next time you are here because contrary to what you said in a previous post about us not knowing who you are, we do actually know who you are now. 

You are wrong my dear. Your husband did vote.

The point is and has been said is without habitation certificates it is illegal to live in or rent out the properties.

We need the architect to sign off the site, mind you that will be a job as illegal building has gone ahead. Also does anyone know the firm of architect SJ used. Then there is the forms to fill out and take to Elche town hall.

I think now I can wait the four years for the courts to get hold of me for non payment. Legal people are needed not bean counters.

Hi 9P.

I think their name is on the panels that are in some gardens. ie by old show house, a sign detailing how many in each section etc

and the permissions I think!!

Thanks VM, I will look next time I'm out. Not that it will do much good. No must be positive!

Didn't we have a site visit 2 years ago?

Does it matter if SJ are in administration can we not pursue CoH ourselves?

What happened with these points from this meeting?

Summary of Committee Meeting held at Administrators Office in Torrevieja on 01-12-2010

Present

Francisco Moreno Martinez, Maria Moreno Martinez, Bo Gottschalk, Francisco Llopis, Cherry Lewis, Pat Parkes and Alec Aspden

This meeting was held at 10:00hrs in the morning and the following actions were decided upon:-

1. The AGM is to be held on the Saturday 8

2. Legal proceedings will be instigated against any community debtors who have not yet paid any fees by the end of January 2011. This will lead to embargoes being set on these properties.

3. It was decided that legal action be taken against San Jose and Iberdrola pending an agreement from owners at the AGM.

4. Francisco Llopis is to arrange for a meeting with the Ombudsman to set out our present concerns and grievances.

5. Alec Aspden is to make contact with the Deputation for Foreign Residents in Alicante to see what help, guidance or advice, if any, we can expect from them.

6. We will also make an approach to the local press to outline the situation here on site.

7. Ascertain exactly what is still required from San Jose or others in order for Habitation Certificates to be applied for. (depending on San Jose circumstances over the next few days it is possible we may have to undertake this ourselves!).

A set of accounts for the past year has been prepared and a copy of these will be sent out with the AGM notification. A budget for the next year will be presented at the AGM and voted on. We also discussed proposals for setting fees next year taking into account the size of the property (as detailed in escrituras) and permanency of occupation. These will be outlined and voted on at the AGM.

We would be obliged if any person wishing to serve on the committee for the next 12 months would indicate as such to the present committee.

Thank you.

IS THIS THE END OF EL PINET AS WE KNOW IT.

I am being told that there is a report in the Spanish press that Elche council has been denounced for allowing the problems at El Pinet to continue. If this is true could it force them to act but not in our favor.

Can anyone confirm this.

Is it 'legal' that we were sold properties without cedulas de habitacion?  And is it right that 8 years down the line we are still without our certificates and not 'legally' allowed to use our homes? No of course not. So why are we 'legally' required to pay SUMA on properties that are not 'legally' habitable? It is an absolute farce.

Yes I think it is a good idea for legal advice to be sought but who is going to pay for it? Those who currently pay nothing are certainly not going to.

Some people on this forum  are only happy to denigrate the efforts of others but offer no constructive advice. ''We have all tried to 'work together' or be 'as one', " - I think not!

Personally, we have always found Mick and his wife very friendly and helpful.

Ceejay

You say that some people are only to happy to deigrate others you also say that we have all tried to work together or be as one. and I quote "I THINK NOT"

I know of at least four people ( all who are non payers) that have had their services turned off by individuals. It cant be San Jose as they do not have this information. A question was asked on here but has never been answered who has the keys to the site.... Committee members or non Committee members or ex Committee members.

Do these individuals realise the danger that they are inflicting on others by cutting services off risking injury or even death to threre victims.

Now ask yourself why are people happy to degirate others. While this goes on people will never work together or be as one.

So I would suggest to you that the rot is within and untill that rot has been removed we will never be as one.

There is an old saying :- ONE ROTTEN APPLE IN THE BARREL  

''We have all tried to 'work together' or be 'as one', "  someone else's words not mine.  However, we are not working together and never will be able to in the current circumstances. My point is that continually denigrating others but not offering constructive advice or solutions is demoralising for all concerned.

Your accusation is very serious if someone is indeed turning off services and that should be dealt with immediately by the police, local council or somebody in authority. No-one has the right to take the law into their own hands.  Iberdrola turned off the electricity in October/November for 18 days and from our experience, everyone on site seemed to be pulling together and trying to restore some services, albeit limited, for everyone.

We just feel that we are all in this together and divisive comments are not in any way helpful.