El Pinet

The commitee and or EPadministrators (Mediterraneo)  have put on the EP site as you may be aware notification of the AGM. But also a list of who has paid and those who not! I'm not sure if there is a privicy law in spain as in the UK. It must be wrong or unlawful?? They have good reason not to pay or have have been advised otherwise.

Also when the commitee or EP administrators (Mediterraneo) send me an email, mine and others are put in the To: instead of Bcc: I get no end of junk mail when this happens!!

BUT HOW MANY OF THE OWNERS ARE: IN BELIEF THAT THE 'MOB' HAVE THESE POWERS? i AM NOT

I get the impression that all the names of those who have not paid or have oustanding payments.

This has got to be wrong to name and shame in this fashion. I would question the legality?

My community fee is 20e and I paid this upto the time an extra 40e was inclueded for electric and water. I want to continue to pay my community fee but I cant as the bill is for 60e.

Send me a bill for my back dated community fees and I will pay for it. But please stop sending me a bill for something I am not using.

I have a contract with a TV company in Spain and I only pay for it when I use it, why cant the committee workout a payment on this basis. I have an apartment, no garden, no private pool and no A/C. Yet I am expected to pay the same as a villa or quad. Is that being fair. As I understand it community fees should be based on the size of your property, should not the electric and water fees be based on what has been installed into a property.

The committee are there for the benifit of many not the few.

One last thing A message for Dangerous Dan, I get your point about Hitler! if you know your history, then you should know about "THE NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIFES"   It seems that certain people at El Pinet have taken it upon themselves to single out individuals, so when you start labeling people as idiots make sure you point the finger at the right people. 

EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION   

 Dear dangerous dan,

I have read your posting with some amazement.  You have made an interesting, albeit uniformed, comparison of the El Pinet fiasco with the actions of Adolf Hitler.  Consequently, I feel compelled to add a few comparisons of my own, and to correct your version where necessary.

Hitler rose to power on the back of the Treaty of Versailles.  He didn’t see why German residents should pay their own debts (which they alone had accumulated through ill-advised ventures).  Instead, he wanted people from neighbouring countries, who were not residents of Germany, to pay the debts for him.  So he stoked up hatred amongst his extreme right-wing followers to that effect. 

Based on this twisted logic he came to power in 1933 and immediately passed a law decreeing that his ruling body could pass whatever laws it liked without having to pass them through Parliament (ie, the people whom it represented).  He staunchly supported the main tenets of fascism which are (1) All power should go to the state rather than to the individual and (2) Individuals should submit their will to the will of the state.

Anyone from the masses who spoke out against his regime or his ideology was punished and free votes were not allowed.  All of the actions of his regime were carried out in strict secrecy and he did not publish detailed accounts of his public spending.

I have a fairly good working knowledge of his quotes and speeches and I can assure you that never once did he say “don’t mess with us or we will mess with you” or anything in a similar vein.  On the contrary, he launched unprovoked and unwarranted attacks on Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, France, Britain, Greece, North Africa and Russia.  Ultimately, we only “messed with him” as a last resort after he had left us with no option.  Our forbearers fought bitterly for a system we now call democracy – I for one applaud them for this.

Please post the “similar statements” for us all to read.

I must first thank Rolypoly for his informative reply to Dangerous Dan's referral to Hitler.  Rolypoly's extracts mirror somewhat the residents position at El Pinet.

I visited my apartment today and after lunch returned to the site which at 18.30 was in darkness and noted the following.  5 properties had christmas trees to the exterior of their properties illuminated with christmas lights, with one property having a light display to its exterior that would rival a display in Oxford Street.  All the properties that I refer to were inhabited.  I walked around the site with my dog and without exception found no air con units running on empty properties or exterior lights illuminating the darkness.  The only air con units running were those that were clearly inhabited whose occupants could clearly be seen.  This is in complete contradiction to Dangerous Dan's statements which are both misleding and incorrect, so much so that I suggest he changes he domain name to Desperate Dan.

I  like the Rolypoly inferences. I am now trying to imagine who could be whom! Some interesting images! 

I must agree with DR L. We couldn't get our a/c to run for long at any point in the year. Our voltage was at best 185 volts. The room lights were like tea lights. So the people who have their places light like Regent Street must have some power. I'm sure they will pay extra for this seasonal extravagance.

It was a lack of power and the cost, that made us move back to the UK for the winter.

The purpose of this forum was to exchange relevant and helpful information, so I thought. As a community we have only one aim and that is to obtain a Cédula de Habitabilidad for each of our properties so we can go on to the mains services and have our own meters. 

We are all at liberty to contact our community representatives and to give our views and to ask them to speak on our behalf at meetings.  However, not everyone is eligible to vote, but those who are can give their proxy to someone who will be attending, to use on their behalf.

And the point of your message is.............................

Since when have we all decided who was 'to form a community'?  When this happens in the correct way, we can then decide who will / not vote. At the moment the only 'representation' is self appointed and resident.

I thought the purpose of the EP site was to inform us of what was happening. There seems to be a delay when groups have a meeting and telling us what is going on, if at all.

Lets hope for the majority of us who can't attend the AGM. We hear what has been said at the meeting. Though I suspect if money is involved it will be fairly quick.

Clearly the loonies have been let out.

 €100 to be paid by the non residents and €150 by the residents. Each month. Are they expecting us to clear a third world countries debt?

This will be for 6 months.

People not paying 60 because it is not fair....so lets put it up to 100 and try to frighten them into paying.......bright idea that one!!!!!!!! 

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This message was last edited by victor meldrew on 08/01/2011.

I think the time may have come for :

A group of us to get together and stop this farce.

The group calling themselves 'the committee' (politburo) to be prosecuted for misuse of  funds. 

Put bluntly, they are off their heads. 

I was able to attend the AGM of the El Pinet communities which eventually commenced at 11.15 after the registration of the attendees.  My first comment was that I was alarmed that the AGM was conducted by the administrators and not the committees of the 3 communities.  I make this point to inform all residents who could not attend of the seriousness of allowing the administrators to take control of the AGM.  My experience elesewhere is that the AGM is conducted by the overiding committee members.  The administrators have a self interest in keeping the El Pinet site running as we must take into account they represent San Jose as well as the El Pinet residents even though we are paying them tens of thousands of euros as the El Pinet administrators.  There were many proposals put forward by residents attending the AGM, which were discussed but not accepted.  It was apparent that a pre-arranged proposal of 150 euros for residents and  100 euros for non residents was the only proposal the administrators were prepared to put forward. No other proposal was put forward to a vote which brings into disrepute the whole farce of an AGM decided by residents.  I mention a few points that were made during the discussions. A lady in the front row referred to debtors receiving free water and electricity, to this lady I would say madam at the rate you have been paying you are also in receipt of free water and electricity.  I live in Spain in a 3 bedroomed detached house, my yearly electricity bill averages out at just over 200 euros a month, in addition to this I pay approximately 600 euros for water.  As your 90 euros a month includes the 20 euros for the community and the remainder 70 euros is for water and electricity, then it is apparent that you pay no way near the true costs for these utilities.

A large obese man at the rear of the hall who is part of the M2 community informed the AGM that he had installed a gas boiler and a gas cooker and that his electricity bill would not be as great as other residents.  There is a serious health and safety issue in relation to this resident, gas bottles must be kept outside any residence.  I am aware of where this resident lives, i.e. in an apartment, gas bottles kept for use in an apartment in a development at El Pinet would endanger residents in the close proximity and I will be bringing this matter to the authorities as soon as I can on Monday morning.  To this resident if you know him, please inform him to stop this use immediately as he is endangering the lives of everyone in his vicinity.  There was another large gentleman with a beard who had a large whispering session with the president.  I thought this was completely inappropriate in a public meeting, why there was a need for a resident to have an off the record whispering session beggars belief, why could we not all be privy to their secret conversations?  This person went on to become a member of the M2 committee.  As a matter of record both he and the large gentleman I referred to earlier both voted against the residential increase, no doubt self interest prevails.

Another resident at the back of the hall stated that he had individually had his services cut off.  It was stated from the floor that no-one at the site has any lawful authority to cut any residents services off.  This brings into question who has the access keys to these cupboards.  We believe we know who the person responsible for this is and we do intend taking retrospective action.  If they think they can act above the law then they cannot criticise us for doing the same.

Some good points however did emerge from the AGM.  A lady put a question to the administrator "I asked you at an earlier meeting were you allowed to pay electric and water bills from the community fees.  The answer you gave at that meeting was no, does that still apply and if so why are you still paying these services with the community fee money?"  The administrator confirmed that they were not allowed to pay the electricity and water bills but did so to help the community.  Another question put to the administrator revealed that no residents were allowed to reside at El Pinet and to do so in the administrators words "were illegal".  So to all you spongers who are resident at the El Pinet site and expect those of us who are waiting for the lawful authorities to allow us to enjoy our homes, we will challenge you in the courts.  You residing at the site create the electricity and water bills.  You need to dig much deeper in your own pockets to pay for your own illegal activities.  Without question they are illegal, the administrator said so.   How dare you ask us law abiding owners for a subsidy to pay for your excess.

You residents at the site need to accept you are an illegal community, and you are not paying the proper rate for your usage of electricity and water.  There should not even be a community charge as no community has the right to be at El Pinet, not until the authorities allow us to reside at the site which seems some time away.  I appreciate that for some of you it may be the only home you have but it is a home that you are not as yet allowed to use and you should not be asking others who are not following in your footsteps, i.e.  not residing at the site to subsidise you, until legal habitiation is allowed

Please thank m2lou.

Very informative.

Unless some common sense starts coming into play soon....WW3 will break out.

Also note. We have 3 communities when it is completed.

Each will have different demands.

As we have paid the council tax for the past few years, does anybody know the rules on exactly when you have to pay this tax. Is it when you sign, when its built, when you can legally live in it????? 

This message was last edited by victor meldrew on 09/01/2011.

The meeting should have been conducted by the chairman and the commitee!!

The administrators are there to over see the (as the name suggests) the administration and not to run the show.

I don't know if people are aware that the administration company appointed by who ever are part of the CAM bank. One of the banks bailing out San Jose, strange ah?

M2lou thank you for your account of the meeting as it will be months before we see anything on the EP site. Did any good points arise as to the persuit of the habitation certificate? When the pools were going to be fixed, if Elche council were going to sort out the "green area's". Etc

Any glimmer of hope for 2011? 

When we have an elected committee!

if they use money ' in the bank' so to speak to persecute, how will they pay THEIR bills

It would be interesting to know how many people had the opportunity to attend the meeting?

Were there any proposals from the floor?

Was there a free vote allowed on anything?

I cannot believe the way some people on this forum stoop to personal insults to get their point across (MrLou). You never hear me getting personal and saying that I believe this site is peopled mainly by bigoted saddo's who have such a small life who are even posting things on here on Christmas day! I wouldn't dream of being so rude and insulting!!

Just to set the record straight about yesterday's meeting  parts of which were conveniently left out of M2Lou'report.

In the first place he/she did not mention that the" large bearded man" had just spoken out about the increase in fees to non residents saying quite clearly that there should be a much bigger difference between residenta and non residents. The reason he was speaking (not whispering to the president was to ask who had set these amounts).

 Secondly the administrators asked if anyone had any other proposal to put forward regarding fees it would be put forwarded and voted upon. No one did. Also just for the record the administrators DO NOT! also act for San Jose, who have their own administrators and are nothing to do with Mediterraneo. A free vote was taken and also for the record the "large beared man" did not vote at all. If you are going to report on a meeting, report on all of it and not just the bits you think people want to hear.

Also for the record for those who keep on about the legality of the site, I will say that those of us who live here bought our properties in good faith to live in. Paid our money in good faith. Completed our purchases in good faith and did not find out until at least two years later about the legal side of things. Unfortunately for us, we do not have the luxury of being able to afford a large three bedroomed detached house in which to "sit it out" as M2Lou seems to suggest we do. We have to deal with the situation that we find ourselves in at this moment and that we will continue to do despite threats from nasty little people on this forum.

Speaking of which. Why don't some of you really brave people who issue threats and personal insults behind your anonomous nicknames on this site, say who you are.  I am not afraid to let you know that I live at aoartment 76 and you can feel free to knock on my door the next time you are in the neighbourhood and call me a "scrounger" to my face.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and freedom of speech but in future please leave personal insults and threats out of any debate.