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Thought this was of interest from 10/06 and might have been overlooked
Hi everyone,
Have just got back fro Spain this afternoon,having had meetings with Pilar,and my solicitor(Anabel at PSI)
We both feel alot better,in the fact that both Pilar and Anabel,are around 99% certain that all is going to be ok.The report from the auditors is due out in about 40days time,and it is then that we will find out 100% if the project is going to go ahead.All of the rumours in Spain,amongst the Spanish buyers,is that it is going to go ahead.
What Pilar and Anabel did stress,was that to make sure that your name is on the list of creditors,just in case,and Im pleased to say that ours was.Everybodys solicitor should have a list,and they are quite willing to show it to you.All the talk about having to pay solicitors up front to represent you,in my opinion is poppy cock,as we have both known anabel for a while and she hasnt asked us for any money,of course we will use her if and its only a big if,we have to.
We visited Jumilla,and work men are still at work there,and since we last visited the site(January)there seems to be a bit of progress.
If anybody else has any more news,please let us know
Kraipet
brianmags
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OK, so it is back ti the propaganda again.
"had meetings with Pilar,and my solicitor(Anabel at PSI)
We both feel alot better,in the fact that both Pilar and Anabel,are around 99% certain that all is going to be ok." - So these 2 people speak on behalf of the Company and the Administrators, are are they just employees and give out information as per instructed and to try and safeguard their jobs?
"The report from the auditors is due out in about 40days time,and it is then that we will find out 100% if the project is going to go ahead." - So in what position are the two people mentioned above able to state that "99% certain that all is going to be ok". Think even the blinkered must agree that it is a bit of a joke.
Administrators have not made a decision or reported, but staff can make such silly statements, I am surprised they are not 100% certain.
Don't you see it is stupidity to believe such things?
"All of the rumours in Spain,amongst the Spanish buyers,is that it is going to go ahead." - So if it is a rumour, it must be correct.
"What Pilar and Anabel did stress,was that to make sure that your name is on the list of creditors,just in case," - And that is being 99% certain all will be OK?
"If anybody else has any more" information "please let us know".
For God's sake switch the brain on and be sensible. Do not listen to rumours and do not listen to employees of the Company. They know as little as everyone else. The Administrators are in control, so how would employees know what is fact, unless they have bugged meetings held?
Face facts, do what best to safeguard your interests.
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Daer ALM
thanks for the input no matter how negative it is I appreciate it. By the way have you been there lately and spoken to anyone concerned in this matter.
brianmags
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Telling people to safeguard their interests, not listen to rumours, not listen to employees of the Company, is being negative, then there is no hope for some, and I am negative.
The only people who have an indication to how things may turn out eventually are the Administrators and I would assume that they are bound by law not to reveal informations until their findings are complete and reported.
All lawyers please state if incorrect?
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Hi Brianmags,
Well said. The administrators seeing the continued support for the project by purchasers who are saying " I want my House" could be significantly influenced and thus the outcome of the process.
I want my House
Tony R17 18
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"The administrators seeing the continued support for the project by purchasers who are saying " I want my House" could be significantly influenced and thus the outcome of the process."
Yeah, they will completely ignore the numerous trade creditors, suppliers, funders, professional advisors, who are owed multi millions and prepared to accept a percentage of the debt, to cut and run, rather than gamble, just for the sake of a few who have bought on a development.
Why not assume you were a trade supplier of a company where administrators had been called in, and the company was allowed to carry on trading. How would you fancy giving additional credit to that company, would you be happy?
Put another way, would you at this moment in time, or say in 3 months, risk putting a deposit on another property on this development, assuming it was to go ahead?
Remember, there will be significant trade debts and with the current climate of the financial and property markets, many would take a loss, just to get in some funds, much like many house purchasers would take a hit, just to off-load.
"a viable project" - You consider that having only sold say 10% to date, and with a slump in the market, makes it viable?
Have you researched how many, sorry, if any hotel groups would invest in the project at present?
This message was last edited by alm on 6/15/2008.This message was last edited by alm on 6/15/2008.
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Hi,
I am making no assumptions. I am aware that there are over 1500 purchasers with contracts and that equates to a large sum of money ( much more than the debt), which can only be realised when the properties are built. Lets not forget all the foundations etc all ready inplace plus the fact that this is a different location and has 50% Spanish purchasers.
I respect your right to your point of view, I just do not agree with your assumptions and have a differing one.
All the best
I want my House
Tony R17 18
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So if there are 1500 who have paid deposits and BGs are to be honoured in default, although the premium for the BGs would have been lost and that would have gone anyway, teh Administrators could take the view to fold the company, let the purchasers claim off their BG and thereby removing some of the debt and creditors, so perhaps trade creditors could get a larger dividend if funds were available?
"The administrators seeing the continued support for the project by purchasers who are saying " I want my House" could be significantly influenced and thus the outcome of the process."
Surely you can't be blind to this?
"How would you fancy giving additional credit to that company, would you be happy"?
Put another way, would you at this moment in time, or say in 3 months, risk putting a deposit on another property on this development, assuming it was to go ahead?
"a viable project" - You consider that having only sold say 10% to date, and with a slump in the market, makes it viable?
Have you researched how many, sorry, if any hotel groups would invest in the project at present? - So have you researched?
"I am aware that there are over 1500 purchasers with contracts and that equates to a large sum of money" - which probably equates to what, 10% of total indebtedness?
Do you know the total debt (Administrators don't yet), I think not.
"Lets not forget all the foundations etc all ready inplace" - Have the suppliers and contractors been paid?
"plus the fact that this is a different location and has 50% Spanish purchasers." - What on earth has that got to do with it, take the blinkers off and face reality.
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Hi Alm,
You have very negative view based on many assumptions and I respect your right to have them.
However, I believe that you are going to be proven to be totaly wrong and i hope that when that happens you will buy me a beer,accept that you were wrong and we can all shake hands and put this brief interuption behind us.
All the best to you
Oh yes and I still want my House
Tony R17 18
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Tony / Brian
Unfortunately I have to agree with ALM on this occassion, whereby I fully support anyone who takes positive action either to regain their finances or to continue the purchase of their properties, we all need to be realistic. If your organisation is to have any impact on these proceedings, and lets for arguement sake say I was a backer of IWMH, i would expect at the very least for there to have been a face to face meeting by now, not emails or letters, with the Administrators to put the case for continuation across. I'm not undermining the work you have done so far, full plaudits for doing so, but i seriously doubt any of the Administrators have the inclination or time to be joining these forums or paying attention to what is written with more important things in mind. We often criticise SJG for not contributing on here so why would the Administrators bother when they have such tight deadlines to focus on adhere to.
As ALM says, they have 40 days to produce a report on the status of SJG, if SARC have not been in touch by now to voice their opinion to the continuation of SADM, then i very much doubt it can have any baring on the outcome and your time and everyone elses hopes of the dream being realised will be in vain. Don't take this as me telling you how to run your business but maybe the focus should be taken away from the forums and the battle directly to the Administrators.....not San Jose, they have no active role to play for the moment, all decisions are taken out of their control. If the administrators are at all concerned, they will grant you an audience immediately and im sure will welcome the positiveness to SADM which may, only may, help influence a positive decision.
We have to also remember, Santa Ana is not the only development planned by SJG and therefore not the sole reason they find themselves in this position. The administrators will trawl through all the planned and current developments, Santa Ana, Albetera, El Pinet, Callaspara, Playa Golf etc and make a 'Group' decision, not just on one urbanisation, their problems are not restricted to this one planned urbanisation and again, unforunately, I too cannot hear anyone from the other urbanisations or forums voicing the I want my house approach.
as i say, I'm not trying to burst your bubble either but we have to be realistic, mission statements, websites, t-shirts and letterheads will not be worth one iota unless someone can get in front of the Administrators and voice their case for continuation. I personally think what would be more reassuring with your members would be an action plan on how the co-operative is progressing with its action, are meetings schedules, when, who with, the objectives, objectives met, not met, actions, next steps etc. And you only have 40 days to do all of this in....sorry if it seems negative !
Darren
This message was last edited by Darren_Michelle on 6/16/2008.This message was last edited by Darren_Michelle on 6/16/2008.
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"You have very negative view based on many assumptions" - Am I alone, when the Administrators have not yet reported?
You run a so called campaign to save a company and a development, without knowing what the total debts and assets are of the company, then say "I believe that you are going to be proven to be totaly wrong".
What is that judgement based on when you do not have facts?
I wish and hope that I am wrong, but even if the Administrators allowed trading, still believe that there would be major problems in future with suppliers and labour and that the smallest blip in payments, could result in a halt in proceedings again.
Many on here claim to have Bank Guarantees, so they are not too worried. Surely if the Administrator is aware or has been informed of that, which one or other he will have been, is he likely to be too concerned about the purchasers who have such guarantees, therefore other options, when compared to what unsecured creditors are facing?
I have no probelem in accepting if my judgements are ever proven wrong and just hope that those on here who for the past few months have made abusive comments and sent threatening PMs, can also accept that perhaps they should have listened.
Same to the person that suggested that they would be sitting out in the sunshine drinking, on the development, whilst I was down the "Workingmens Club" as I couldm't afford to buy a property like them.
I would really like to find that the project went ahead and to its completion, but that would be 10 years on anyway, but there are a lot of innocent people out there who could face financial ruin.
Do you know what the procedure is when Administrators are appointed?
Do you know what the total debts of the company are?
Do know how many hotel groups who would consider developing the hotel at present?
You continually choose to avoid accepting that there are such questions to be researched, before running a campaign, which you requre the Administrators to take seriously.
Would you at this moment in time, or say in 3 months, risk putting a deposit on another property on this development, assuming it was to go ahead?
When you remove your head from the sand, take off the blinkers, then the rose tinted glasses.
"Unfortunately I have to agree with ALM " - Why it is unfortunate, I don't know.
"I fully support anyone who takes positive action either to regain their finances" - Me too, whereas if a miracle were to happen and all were to get their properties, on an unfinished development, what chace would they have of selling to get their money back, and if they have plans for renting, who fancies renting for a holiday on a giant unfinished construction site.
For those who believe they can get their hard earned cash back, is there an option?
This message was last edited by alm on 6/16/2008.
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Hi All,
On the 9th of June SARC emailed the Directors of San Jose asking for some form of compensation for purchasers who proceeded with their purchases. A reply was received later that day and we were informed that Almudena, the MD, discussed this with the administrators. The reply was that new purchase contracts, which would include compensation, would be made available to purchasers who wished to proceed with their purchase, as soon as they had established the completion dates.
This is a very strong indication that SADM is going ahead and underlines why others who have been in contact with San Jose are very positive and the staff are 99% sure that it will be proceeding
Please note:
SARC does have the names of the Administrators and has already established a route of communication, this was done last week.The listed debt of the companies is around 30 million Euros with assets of 300 million and contracted sales returns on SADM in the region of 200 million Euros. The foundations are in for many of the properties on the west of the golf course, which has already been landscaped and had planting taking place.SADM is a legal development with 50% Spanish purchasers appealing to a different market than that of the coastal urban sprawl.
And I ask:
When you are offered a new purchase contract for your property what are you going to do? You chose SADM for a reason and you need to ask yourself if that reasonStill stands plus how you will feel seeing SADM built and not being there
Brianmags
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E mail Questions to Abagado and Email Reply regarding Legal Representation in Administration Process
Hi Eugenio,
Thank you for taking the time to personally talk to me today regarding my enquiry for representation in the administration process of San Jose Inversiones and Herrada del Tollo.
I am sending you this email as suggested to ask just a few questions.
1. Could you confirm that the cost of representation for the process be it to continue with the purchase, which is what I wish to do or to have to claim funds back in the event of liquidation of the company?
2. Could you confirm the process of administration and if Power of Attorney can be given after proof of deposits has been given?
3. When does Power of Attorney have to be given and how long does it take to do and what is the cost of doing so?
4. Will our wishes still be carried out if we give POA and do we have any guarantee of this?
5. If we do proceed with our purchases would we be able to get bank guarantees for our deposits?
6. Would you like your fees paid in full upfront or in instalments?
7. Would you be able to complete our purchases for us and what would the charges be?
I think I have covered everything that Brian my colleague and I may ask and I look forward to your reply and to hopefully engaging you services in the administration process and beyond.
Mucho Gracias for you time
Anthony
Questions and Answers Regarding Legal Representation in the Administration process
1. Could you confirm that the cost of representation for the process be it to continue with the purchase, which is what I wish to do or to have to claim funds back in the event of liquidation of the company
1. – The fee quoted was off of the Murcia legal fee list and it was discounted to 1200 euros. This included to representation at the "Mercantil" Court in order to defend the clients interest during the Administration Procedure.
2. Could you confirm the process of administration and if Power of Attorney can be given after proof of deposits has been given?
2. -It was confirmed that the power of attorney could be signed after your name is included on creditor´s list.
3. When does Power of Attorney have to be given and how long does it take to do and what is the cost of doing so?
3. It was recommended that this was done as soon as possible and that it should cost about 90 Euros and take one hour to do in Spain
4. Will our wishes still be carried out if we give POA and do we have any guarantee of this?
4. – It was stated that the client’s instruction would be followed even though they had power of attorney.
5. If we do proceed with our purchases would we be able to get bank guarantees for our deposits?
5. – It was stated that there is a legal obligation to give a bank guarantee and it will be requested.
6. Would you like your fees paid in full upfront or in instalments?
6. - The fees are paid upfront.
7. Would you be able to complete our purchases for us and what would the charges be?
7.- The reply was that although the standard fees are 2100 euros that if they are representing clients in Administration Procedure, we would charge you less an I was quoted 1.400 euros.
We will post the details of the Legal Company on the SACR website and if any one wishes to contact them feel free to do so and make your own independent decision and choice.
This was done in support of the view expressed by SARC members to avoid costly and lengthy legal procedures. It can be seen that the cost can be decreased but if you do not wish to continue with the purchase of your property you will have to go through a legal process at the Court of which we could get no definition of a time scale.
brianmags
I want my house R4 556
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E mail Questions to Abagado and Email Reply regarding Legal Representation in Administration Process
Hi Eugenio,
Thank you for taking the time to personally talk to me today regarding my enquiry for representation in the administration process of San Jose Inversiones and Herrada del Tollo.
I am sending you this email as suggested to ask just a few questions.
1. Could you confirm that the cost of representation for the process be it to continue with the purchase, which is what I wish to do or to have to claim funds back in the event of liquidation of the company?
2. Could you confirm the process of administration and if Power of Attorney can be given after proof of deposits has been given?
3. When does Power of Attorney have to be given and how long does it take to do and what is the cost of doing so?
4. Will our wishes still be carried out if we give POA and do we have any guarantee of this?
5. If we do proceed with our purchases would we be able to get bank guarantees for our deposits?
6. Would you like your fees paid in full upfront or in instalments?
7. Would you be able to complete our purchases for us and what would the charges be?
I think I have covered everything that Brian my colleague and I may ask and I look forward to your reply and to hopefully engaging you services in the administration process and beyond.
Mucho Gracias for you time
Anthony
Questions and Answers Regarding Legal Representation in the Administration process
1. Could you confirm that the cost of representation for the process be it to continue with the purchase, which is what I wish to do or to have to claim funds back in the event of liquidation of the company
1. – The fee quoted was off of the Murcia legal fee list and it was discounted to 1200 euros. This included to representation at the "Mercantil" Court in order to defend the clients interest during the Administration Procedure.
2. Could you confirm the process of administration and if Power of Attorney can be given after proof of deposits has been given?
2. -It was confirmed that the power of attorney could be signed after your name is included on creditor´s list.
3. When does Power of Attorney have to be given and how long does it take to do and what is the cost of doing so?
3. It was recommended that this was done as soon as possible and that it should cost about 90 Euros and take one hour to do in Spain
4. Will our wishes still be carried out if we give POA and do we have any guarantee of this?
4. – It was stated that the client’s instruction would be followed even though they had power of attorney.
5. If we do proceed with our purchases would we be able to get bank guarantees for our deposits?
5. – It was stated that there is a legal obligation to give a bank guarantee and it will be requested.
6. Would you like your fees paid in full upfront or in instalments?
6. - The fees are paid upfront.
7. Would you be able to complete our purchases for us and what would the charges be?
7.- The reply was that although the standard fees are 2100 euros that if they are representing clients in Administration Procedure, we would charge you less an I was quoted 1.400 euros.
We will post the details of the Legal Company on the SACR website and if any one wishes to contact them feel free to do so and make your own independent decision and choice.
This was done in support of the view expressed by SARC members to avoid costly and lengthy legal procedures. It can be seen that the cost can be decreased but if you do not wish to continue with the purchase of your property you will have to go through a legal process at the Court of which we could get no definition of a time scale.
brianmags
I want my house R4 556
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E mail Questions to Abagado and Email Reply regarding Legal Representation in Administration Process
Hi Eugenio,
Thank you for taking the time to personally talk to me today regarding my enquiry for representation in the administration process of San Jose Inversiones and Herrada del Tollo.
I am sending you this email as suggested to ask just a few questions.
1. Could you confirm that the cost of representation for the process be it to continue with the purchase, which is what I wish to do or to have to claim funds back in the event of liquidation of the company?
2. Could you confirm the process of administration and if Power of Attorney can be given after proof of deposits has been given?
3. When does Power of Attorney have to be given and how long does it take to do and what is the cost of doing so?
4. Will our wishes still be carried out if we give POA and do we have any guarantee of this?
5. If we do proceed with our purchases would we be able to get bank guarantees for our deposits?
6. Would you like your fees paid in full upfront or in instalments?
7. Would you be able to complete our purchases for us and what would the charges be?
I think I have covered everything that Brian my colleague and I may ask and I look forward to your reply and to hopefully engaging you services in the administration process and beyond.
Mucho Gracias for you time
Anthony
Questions and Answers Regarding Legal Representation in the Administration process
1. Could you confirm that the cost of representation for the process be it to continue with the purchase, which is what I wish to do or to have to claim funds back in the event of liquidation of the company
1. – The fee quoted was off of the Murcia legal fee list and it was discounted to 1200 euros. This included to representation at the "Mercantil" Court in order to defend the clients interest during the Administration Procedure.
2. Could you confirm the process of administration and if Power of Attorney can be given after proof of deposits has been given?
2. -It was confirmed that the power of attorney could be signed after your name is included on creditor´s list.
3. When does Power of Attorney have to be given and how long does it take to do and what is the cost of doing so?
3. It was recommended that this was done as soon as possible and that it should cost about 90 Euros and take one hour to do in Spain
4. Will our wishes still be carried out if we give POA and do we have any guarantee of this?
4. – It was stated that the client’s instruction would be followed even though they had power of attorney.
5. If we do proceed with our purchases would we be able to get bank guarantees for our deposits?
5. – It was stated that there is a legal obligation to give a bank guarantee and it will be requested.
6. Would you like your fees paid in full upfront or in instalments?
6. - The fees are paid upfront.
7. Would you be able to complete our purchases for us and what would the charges be?
7.- The reply was that although the standard fees are 2100 euros that if they are representing clients in Administration Procedure, we would charge you less an I was quoted 1.400 euros.
We will post the details of the Legal Company on the SACR website and if any one wishes to contact them feel free to do so and make your own independent decision and choice.
This was done in support of the view expressed by SARC members to avoid costly and lengthy legal procedures. It can be seen that the cost can be decreased but if you do not wish to continue with the purchase of your property you will have to go through a legal process at the Court of which we could get no definition of a time scale.
brianmags
I want my house R4 556
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Can i just add the following observations from my own experiences over the last few weeks. In conjunction with the last posting.
Point 1 The solicitor is indicating the fee includes defending the clients interests with the administrator, for instance, mine is doing the same and the fee for me should be less than 1200 euros, providing there is no litigation required. Check the fees if the solicitor has to carry out any work because the fees are laid down in the Spanish law as a table of fees for further work.. It goes without asking that any solicitor will represent a client in any eventuality of the administration process, there should be no special 'aim' of anyones solicitor regarding receiving a property or a refund, the solicitor is not making that decision, the administration is doing that.
Point 2 I dont follow that information or question. The power of attorney can be done at any time, today, next week, next year, its just a process of allowing a person to represent you 'speak for you' as it were. If you can find your name on the creditors list, there may not be much work to do yet, other than check its valid and the amount is correct, ask yourself if you can do that without representation through POA. If you have any queries at all, about the creditors list, you have to challenge it with the administrator, in Spanish. If you can do that within 30 days, without POA then great, otherwise it will be a significant problem for you.
Point 3 The power of attorney, quoted as around 90 euros, in Spain, is a fairly common price range isnt it?. The cost of getting to spain (for all those in the UK), signing the POA in the solicitors office and organising a short stay in a local hostel is not mentioned in that option. To carry out the procedure through a notary in the UK and have the document put through 'appostille', then sent to the solicitor in safe postage with original documents of contract, cost me £170.00, total.
Point 4 For point 4 see point 1......the solicitor represents the clients interests, thats what they do.
Point 5 The issue of bank guarantees is one of the disapointing parts of the builders actions isnt it?. The solicitor indicates a BG is a legal obligation. The builder didnt supply these, did the builder break the law?, now thats the question i would like to see answered. It will be answered by the Administrators of course. This should probaby then form part of the decision making process anyone makes about re-investing with the same builder.
Point 7 Most solicitors specialise in certain areas of Law. Would it perhaps be better to hire a property lawyer/conveyancer to complete a purchase when that time arises? The question can't be looked on as an indication of the properties being built or not. That will be the decision of the administration, not the solicitor. Maybe that question relates to people who have 'built/completed properties' in the admin process, which i have not had need to ask questions about? It might be better to clarify that one and be more specific.
Hope that helps when digesting the Q and A posting.
Regards
Brian
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Best wishes, Brian
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Hi Brian,
a good feed back from your self.
I only have one question which stems from an earlier statement that we should all help each other out If you already had the info why not let others know of it where as on the lawyers strand one poor person signed pOA and then was told to pay another 1500 euros to take the case if she only had your info sooner she may have saved herself some money.
brianmags R4 556
I Want My house
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Hi brianmags
I can find the one on the bank guarantees thread about the person who decided to take up POA and was then asked for 1500 euros 'out of the blue'.
I cant see if the money changed hands or not though.
Anyway to answer the point in a little way, the POA is for someone to speak for you and work on your behalf. When you have arranged for power of attorney for someone to speak for you, it shouldnt be a major surprise that there would be a charge for doing that. The POA gives the legal representation to have someone represent you in court, sign documents, correspond with the debtor/administrator etc Its not a parcel of legal aid that solves the problems you might have.
To follow on from POA, it would follow for you to ask the person to check the creditors list, look for mistakes and check your interests? That does not come free. Its been said many times on the threads i have been following that the best thing to do is take information from all sources you can, discuss your needs with a solicitor with some standing and who you feel you can trust. Then make a decision and go with it.
Its been going a few weeks now so regular posters should be aware of those things and be able to pass that info on, its basic stuff.
Thanks
Brian
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
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