I want my house

Sue you have seen how SARC have used info in the past reading into it what they will and changing it around to suit their own ends . Let's wait and see what they do this time .  JA

Hi Ja

                 all reports were reported facually and we only offer our impression of what they siad after the reports not altering anything at all and left others to make up thier own minds comments were always after the report.

Happy Christmas to one and all

Brianmags

I Want My House

Perhaps it was when you "offered your  impression of what was said "  not  told exactly what was said but "your impression "  That is what annoyed me .  JA

Brianmags, you say " truth will win out every tme" and I agree with you 100% and there will be many with you who will shed tears.

"why the agression" - Is there?

" you need counciling" I assume that it is a typo there as a health spacialist like yourself would not make such a silly mistake?
When you don't know me or anything about me, how can you advise on what I need for my health?
Is this the same as the standard of advice you offer to the "clan", when you do not know what the hell is happening to your own money, let alone anyone else's.

"its not good for your health" shouldn't think it is, but wouldn't know, nothing to upset me in my life

 First time back in the forum for a while and.................yep, nothing going on but da bitching !!

Dear All,

This was pushed down the thread so I have brought it back up again for all to see.

18 Dec 2008 8:51 PM TonyMal Finca I've made 606 posts

Hi All, I would like to share the information with you all, that we shared with the SARC membership yesterday and it is posted below. Firstly I would like to deal with a couple of points: Firstly I think that you will find that the majority of purchasers want thier properties, there are still more purchasers joining SARC and the  I WANT MY HOUSE campaign. Secondly, the issue of down sizing is, I believe  only a possible short term stratergy for the development and I truly believe that, all being well SADM goes ahead that other people will want to purchase there. The reason for this is that it would be better to purchase on a development that had gone through the supervision of the court and is in the recovery phase rather than risk a development that may problems in the future and not go ahead.       Dear All  We  spoke to our solicitor today, who is also a Barrister and he has viewed the report but will give it an in depth read over the weekend,take notes and then seek clarification from the administrators and then give his clients a considered opinion.  He said that with a brief view that it looks positive for SADM being refinanced, that there are a lot of assets, little debt, which is mainly our deposits and he thinks that SADM is very attractive to investors. He also said that information concerning the refinancing negotaitions could not go in the report, as it is a public document and the negotiations are confidential commercial matters.   So please be patient and have a good Christmas. If we get any news from our solicitor or any other source we will let you know asap. We personally think it is looking positive but we want to read the document and for every one to be able to do the same .....   All the best to you Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year   Tony & Brian

This is Brianmags post and what all this is about 

Hi Ja

                 all reports were reported facually and we only offer our impression of what they siad after the reports not altering anything at all and left others to make up thier own minds comments were always after the report.

Happy Christmas to one and all

Brianmags

I Want My House

Hi all just wanted to move this up the thread as I thought it was important

Perhaps it was when you "offered your  impression of what was said "  not  told exactly what was said but "your impression "  That is what annoyed me .  JA

From another thread ,,,,,,,,,,,  just thought I would move  it up as it was also importanti

Hi FIN it is beyond belief that someone would rubbish me and every sensible remark I have made about this situation and the under hand nature of SARCO , then demand information from me that I have paid my excellent legal eagle to provide .Beggars belief .Also can you imagine if I was asked to attend a medical conference and report back and I reported "my Impression of what was said"instead of what was actually said, struck and off come to mind. Regards JA

As all can see from the IWMH thread Brianmags has admitted I presume on behalf of SARC and Tony that all along they were giving "their impression of"  not what was actually said at meetings and in reports .Shocking ,corrupt  and unfair for those who have been taking  their advice JA

New post

Tony every time you have a night off your monkey makes a balls up .It is not easy to make such a balls up of the truth !!!!!!!!! only when some one is telling lies  !!!!!!  such lies  are hard to cover or substantiate ,you give him an impossible task

 Regards JA

Hi all

I still read this site fairly regularly, but have not posted for a long time due to the tone of the threads (even if I often agree with some of the sentiments).

I am really spitting feathers at the moment, as my lawyer has given me a synopsis of the report, and his legal opinions.  Due to obvious reasons, I am not prepared to share this info, however there is one part of the report that I would like to draw to everyones attention.  In the administrators report it states SJ assets.  While we can discuss/argue till the cows come home about what assets are really worth in the current market, what is clear as day is how much cash in the bank they have.  I read somewhere that the deposits for 'purchasers' total 80 milliion euros.  So how much do they have in the bank?  They should have spent some of the money on the development so far, so lets be generous and say they spent half of the money - so 40 million euros left?  No - 33 K, yes thirty three thousand.  this is in the report, so it there for all to read.  I will leave you to draw your own conclusions, but that sums it all up to me.

Tracey

IWMFMB

Hi alan tracey.................yes its hard to understand the 'black hole' in the accounts......whichever way you translate a report, numbers are thesame in any language eh.

Tony..............would you be good enough to answer the questions Abolex have asked you, its the second time they have been posted for you

 reading between the lines I would suggest that funds have gone into those businesses decided by san jose which are viable at the loss of others. I think this will lead to criminal charges and will ultimately result in a downturn for all. I feel sorry for those still to complete at el pinet as I think there will be legal ripples that may even impact on their legal title to properties not already completed. What is important is what the accounted assets are made up from and how easy it is to extract funds from these.

Tony have you heard yourself- that the downsizing is a short term strategy????? have you heard yourself that there would be no refinancing information available as it is commercial in confidence. They entered voluntary administration in May --- EIGHT MONTHS AGO.

Any possible buyer would have been found by now TONY and nobody wants their money. I have seen a list of law suits pending Tony and it is larger than any of the membership on either of the forums. SARC's fifty members(if you are up that far yet) do not even come close.

I cant wait for my day in court and there will be no out of court settlement five minutes before the hearing. I want to take it as far as I can. I live to see this company pay for all the pain and destruction it has caused to so many people

To all those in Spain..Darren/ Michelle/ linda / dave etc who have been in san jose accommodation; I hope that you find somewhere and they should be ashamed of making you homeless at this time of year with no provision. Hope you still manage to have  a good christmas

Hi Joannie

I think it was probably  the administrations task to spot any false accounting before allowing any further trading.

So it looks like the official line is that the SJ side of the business has less debt because of the smaller sites and the relative success of the developments they carried out.

On the other hand the HdT side has been over ambitious maybe, at any rate they bit off more than they could chew and couldnt deliver the goods.  Something i predicted back in July........i thought it looked that way anyway.  If you want criminal proceedings you need to decide what your accusing them of and what evidence might be around for you.

Any ideas where you can start?.....

 That is what should happen but the administrators were chosen and are effectively managed by Herrada del tollo at the moment so they are not objective as they should be.

The trail will be followed as far as it can go and is already being formally questioned. All we can do is ask the questions as the administrators have not seen following the law as part of their remit ( I knew this as soona s they told banks not to pay those of us with bank guarantees)

I am truly afraid no matter what the outcome that we may all be here years from now

Hi again

What do you mean by formaly questioned?.........That would indicate a police enquiry, like a fraud squad investigation.  Is that what you mean is happening?

Or is it just the lawyers who have raised questions along the way as the administration has gone along.

I seem to remember a meeting in the local town hall with a jolly lunch and the lord mayor telling his story to a small sarc representation.  It seemed that everything was acceptable when it was seen to be good news for the HdT side that they were to get money and licences and etc.

Is it to be a big investigation now its going pear shaped for those buyers?............Are they going to find a way of slowing things down for their own interests, is that it?

Hi joanie666,

Am I right in thinking that it is the judge and not the administrators who decide our status as creditors. I am very afraid that we can not look to the Spanish legal system to protect us it has been obvious to us for some time that the whole system is corrupt and no one is interested in the plight of those that have been cheated and conned by SJ/HdT.

After recieving an update from my solicitor I believe this report is a whitewash designed to scare us into accepting whatever SJ/HdT and another con.

Is there any thing else we can do besides the actions we have already taken?

Kind Regards

 My understanding is that both are happening. The shareholders of the two companies which are in administration rightly believe that their investments have been used to prop up the remaining companies and want to take action to recover these monies. At the same time many of the lawyers are now talking with each other and all putting the same questions the way of the judge in any formal processes as they arise.

Arlene it is most certainly the judge who decides. The administrators have not acted properly from the outset when they told banks not to honour bank guarantees and should no way been seen as an objective party designed to inform the court on the viability of Herrada del tollo. (although the judge will have to consider the report as such) Although JA says different I do not believe the judge as given any owner priv status yet (or anyone for that matter) As the report shows all are ordinary bar the tax! The first cases will be telling in that  (even if they are not our cases) it will show us the ruling of the judge. I believe many layers are contesting for priv status for their clients. Including all the spanish lawyers whose clients most certainly want their money back!

Tony is right in that there could be a worst case scenario. If the company was to continue people who resolve their contract could end up being paid back a percentage over a period of up to five years. (in this time they may have received a property had they not resolved)

For this scenario to even come close to playing out there would have to be a significant group of people who choose not to resolve their contracts. IE 99.9% This is stated in the report and plays a crucial part in the viability decisions made. As we already know no-one trusts this company as far as they can spit and therefore there are hundreds of lawsuits in place to resolve contracts. The judge will do this on mass - there will be no contest the only factor for consideration is the status of credit.

Most importantly on top of this herrada del tollo need to find someone to re-finance the project and after eight months they have not come close!

The judge will consider viability having gone through this process and herrada del tollo will be liquidated. Those who have not asked for their contract to be resolved and creditor status reviewed will most certainly lose a percentage of their deposits. Those who have might end up in the same position. If the judge is favourable to the argument (and this is an argument that has been used successfully before in other cases) then owners would receive their money back before others.

Arlene there is nothing more we can do apart from wait and hope the judge rules in our favour. having a feel for the numbers of cases going through the courts then owners should know their own claims for resolving contracts would have no real impact on the viability as there are already too many people attempting to terminate contracts. Even if we all followed Tony's lead the project would be untenable and no closer to any finance deal.

....but let me guess Tony we may know in two weeks!?????????

Hi Joannie

I had the notion that there wasnt much difference in an administration in Spain and one in the UK.  The concurso being similar to the US system just has a study of the current affairs and some temporary protection.................8 months in this case!!!

So the findings of the concurso cant be seen as a final judgement, just an appraisal.  When anyone talks, and Tony included, about how long it takes to get money back or if houses are built, its not a concurso remit to decide.  If they find its OK to trade on, like SJI then it comes back to its customers with proposals of what happens next, then the customer decides if the propodsals are acceptable or are the best options for them.  If not, they go to the court and take action.

The HdT concurso is now delivered without any clear proposals...............you have to decide what you do............and yes, taking them to the insolvency procedure is one of the options, and may be the best one if you think so.

How long it takes to pay back your deposit and could you have a house in that time is and always has been a completely bunkem decision to make.....................If your a customer of HdT you want to know what you get for your money and not what they tell you its best to have............I am convinced if it they traded on under those circumstances it would be a disaster and you would lose everything.

Hi Joannie, many thanks for the up-date. As always your posts are informative, and sensible. Totally agree re the Administrators, how can they submit a report to the courts and not explain where the missing money is? They are in SJ/HdT`s  back pocket as far as I`m concerned! I want my money back now, I`m not prepared to wait 5 Years, they have had it for 3 years already! I will be instructing my solicitor to persue them for the return of my deposit with the upmost diligence! Wishing you all a Merry Christmas. Cheers Joanniemac

Hi Joannie666,

Thanks for the reply as always you provide good sound and practical advice and clear explaination of the proccess shame Tony can not do the same. This is certainly a roller coster of an experience but since we are in the season of goodwill I wish you and everyone else a wonderful christmas.

I  hope that in 2009 right will triumph over might and the dishonest developers we have had the displeasure to be involved with.

Happy Christmas

Arlene

Hi All,

i am sorry to have to say this but some of you seem to believe that all officialdom in Spain is  against you excpet for the solicitors who take your money.

So the report is out and it appears that those of you in the IWMMB camp are not very happy with it. Could that be because it is not all the doom and gloom that was made out several weeks ago? Now would it not be nice to all take a chill pill, enjoy Christmas and then read the report in English as soon as we have got the translation completed?

It is pointless wasting time going on about where is the money, the only point is how do we protect what we have put in and get a postive outcome? Yes some of you may be very annoyed with the developer and you may seek short term satisfaction but protecting your money in a very unusual economic market should be the prime goal.

It would be better to get SADM refinanced and to realise your property rather than reply on the vague posability that some one would want to purchase HdT assets.  I believe, as do others. that it is far more liklely that SADM would be refinanced due to the assets as gaurantees and purchasers for sales and profits to be made.

So Merry Christmas to you all and SARC's present to you (eventually) will be a translated report and we can then all debate away and say things based on its content and not cherry picked morsels.

Oh and     I WANT MY HOUSE

Tony R17 18

Hi  Joanniemac.

I agree with your post except for the fact [correct me if i am wrong] that i thought it was the courts that appointed the administrators, who must have been used on many occassions and because the court appointed them, they would be impartial and independant and NOT in the back pockets of SJ/HDT.

The other point is that the administrators may feel that there is a certain amount of money missing but  they cannot report where it has gone if they cannot prove where it is. They can only state that there appears to be a short fall somewhere. Feeling there is a fraud involved but proving it are sometimes two completely different things. We all wish that these things could be black and white but as you know Joanniemac they quite often are not.

                         Bob.