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Dave R
name one piece of information on here which is backed up by any evidence that did not come directly from SJ or agents.
All people have to do is open their eyes to the lies from SJ spread by SARC and use their own common sense to analyse the situation .If SJ have streams of finance foreign or otherwise pouring into their coffers why are they asking residents on El Pinet to pay the utility bills .They have admitted they are unable to pay and if bills are not met by residents supplies will be stopped .Open your eyes to what is happening you don't need anyone to make a report or statement or to back up with evidence it is there for all to see.Perhaps you would prefer to listen to SARC and believe all is well .What are they doing ?posting out pairs of rose tinted specs to all who join.Get real use your own powers of deduction and you will not be disappointed or surprised when the time comes and it is coming soon.I am sorry for all of us it is a disgraceful mess but can only be made worse by more lies from SJ or placing any more trust in them. We are all innocent consumers who have been conned by SJ out of huge sums`of money .Is this the message we give to others by pretending all is well and SJ are trying to protect our interests as customers ,I think not .How can we expect Spanish law or authorities to help or take us seriously if the we go along with what SJ want us to do and pretend all is well and it is only a matter of time until SJ give us all our houses .Pleeeease I have been trying to make people realise the real damage SARC is doing for so long now it is frustrating and all I get is abuse or accused of having a hidden agenda .I have no hidden agenda like the rest of you I would settle for anything rather than nothing However I think nothing is exactly what we are going to get if we do what SJ would like us to do and listen to SARC.Time will show that I and others are right but by then it will be too late .
I wish to cause offence to no one and feel deep sadness for all situations but please don't have the wool pulled over your eyes.JA
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Malcolm is this topic " I want to know how you connect to the net in Jumilla " or I want my house ? Please start a new topic rather than disturbing a thread with total random questions Ta JA This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/26/2008.
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The comment about showing supporting evidence. Suppose there are many that believed without question the developers and their agents who showed supporting evidence on how profits could be made from buying off plan from them and the high rental yields.
Were those items of supporting evidence also based on fact, or historical.
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I can only speak for myself in that my Agent never offered to even guestimate a potential yield on rental (even tho this was my part plan as well as a holiday home) and it was impossible to do so with NO supporting evidence being a new location and unchartered territory for them. I saw, I loved, I purchased. I only have me to blame for my choice. My Agents have lose money too.
Sal
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Sal
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Sue
I believe it's become a nagging obsession with some peeps so it's a case of there isn't long to go before the pitch gets cranked up even more. It's going to be like November 5th come early soon. Only 3 more weeks to go. Nice thought though. Don't think JA can last much longer without internal combustion occurring. Try to hang in there Jules. 
Chrissie
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Chrissie
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My OH is off to Portugal golfing with his mates . Don't worry Chrissie I just had some good old retail therapy . I feel much better now.I will hang on in there but don't be surprised if you see me on the news camped out in the foyer off the bank that issued my BG .Chained to the first thing I see that can not be moved with banners, sleeping bag ,camping stove,laptop, cooler with a supply of chilled rosado the lot !!! JA
oh and some ripe tomatoes. This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/26/2008.
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Hi Julie Anne,
This is a reply from John( Pit Bull without the Lipstick) Walker.
How dare you tell friends of mine that they should start a new thread on a question regarding Broadband in Jumilla when it is a relevant question as they wish to live in the area. You are not the webmonitor for the Santa Ana website and you are not buying on this development.
You seem to have set yourself up as the the only person who knows anything about San Jose from another aspect and you state that your information is from another source. However Chrissie asked you for this source and you glided over this and did not answer the question.
Quite frankly I find you the most rude and self-opininated person on any forums.
You also describe yourself as a professional in regards to property matters in Spain so why are you in the same position as others but at least another two years down the line?
John
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Jules
Thats my girl retail therapy never hurt anybody under the circumstances. We are off for an Italian meal tomorrow so I'm chilling tonight. I'm one of the unfotunate people who asked until I was blue in the face about a BG but had excuses all the time. Grrrr. It is a trying old time for us all. My daughter has just come back from Portugal she enjoyed it and said she would go back again. Me I am wondering what Italy is like, never been there so might try that sometime.
Will watch for you on the telly with your laptop, stove and tommies. Going to sign off for now got peeps coming round soon.
Chrissie
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Chrissie
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Dear JA,
SARC has never stated that we represented all purchasers but we do represent a sizable number enough said on that.
As for the BG's question it was a thought as stated as such not a fact. what i was doing is trying to make sence of
(a) the value in a BG and its role.
(b) what and why the banks are doing or in this case not paying out on valid BG's.
I have searched for the last few months and still can't find anything relating to BG's and their role in purchasing an off plan property, and no one has been able to answer the question on what is the benifit of having a BG and where they come in the payout line of priorities in a liquidation scenario.
I hope that this clears that up it was purely a question as to what the reasons might be for the banks stance on valid BG's that is all.
I had always believed that a BG was a Gaurentee that the money you paid was for the building of a property and that unless the builder failed and went into liquidation then your funds were secured but that doesn't seem to be the case but no one can answer or is willing to answer this.
I had thought that by posing the question we could stimulate some answers whether it was what we wanted to hear or not as this is supposed to be a forum
I did not realise that you were a professional, in what area would that be? surley you aren't a property expert or a lawyer I bow to your superior knowledge on all things including the meaning of life and as a professional why not answer the BG question why have you not been paid surley with your professional knowledge you could get that sorted.
regards
brianmags
I want my house
R4 556
ps please excuse any spelling mistakes This message was last edited by brianmags on 9/26/2008.
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John SG what is your problem .Forum members are perfectly entitled to ask others not to unnecessarily change the topic it ruins the thread and the correct thing to do in this situation is to start a new thread. I was only pointing that out .As for malcolm being a friend of yours , , the relevance of that is ? You do not know what , where or how many properties I have an interest in doh !!!!!!! and if you care to read my posts properly you will find that what I said was " leave it to the professionals " NOT that I was a professional.
As for being the rudest most self opinionated person on this forum I think you and your ridiculous post just stole my title.
Now perhaps you would like to try another post (I see you have only made two) perhaps this time you can tell us why you are really sooooooo angry .
Brianmags your post doesn't even warrant a reply.Lets just wait in see if you get your house or banks are forced to pay out on BGs.anyone want to take bets on what will happen first. My guess on the BGs is 6 months to a year . My guess for your house giving the current state if SJs affairs is never.
Have a nice evening JA
This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/26/2008.
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Just love it. Ask the SARC people a question and you never get a reply.
They ask a question and do not get the reply they want and it's stamp feet, toys out of pram, scratch you if I catch you time.
Ooooh I want to know.
Regarding reasons why BGs are delayed or not paid out, like any insurance cover, there are conditions which apply, which I have stated many times over many weeks. Read a BG, any BG carefully and including the small print, and you will obviously be surprised what you may find.
It is the same as if you have a claim on a property, car, or anything else in UK. If conditions are not met, no payout.
Hear about the couple in UK whose house was flooded and wrecked. As with majority of house policies, it was stated that the property should not be left empty for more than 28 days. Their holiday was 30 days. Guess what happened regarding their claim.
Hear about the property that was vacant and was completely burned out?
The insurers proved that the property had not been visited and entered at least once every 7 days.
No payout.
I believe that there are many who do not know exactly what they have signed, what they have signed for and what they have or haven't paid for.
There were many XL customers who had insurance cover, but at crunch time, they were not covered if the firm went into Liquidation. This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 9/26/2008.
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I only post when I am allowed to do so by Sue because I always upset people. I have been reading the forum though for a long time.
You were quite clearly asked by Chrissie and by me to tell us the source of information that suggests that SJ was about to be wound up but you have ignored that and have just slagged off those of us who want an answer to cover up your lack of true facts.
You stated in your email to leave it to the professionals, implying yourself. Again, I would like to ask you who is the source of your information, which you say is based on facts?
John
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John SG I have more than one source .Do you want their names or their dates of birth and addresses as well.? The only thing I could give is their occupations/interests and even that would not satisfy you. The facts if you think about them are obvious to all even with out information from other sources .
I am really fed up repeating this
SJ have no money to pay utility bills = they have been unable to refinance if they had secured finance they would be shouting it from the roof tops.
Shareholders have started criminal proceedings against Director of SJ = all is not well with the company accounts = No one will re finance
Current economic crisis no one is lending to anyone least of all companies with a dodgy set of accounts = SJ can not raise any money not even enough to finish El Pinet never mind start SADM
And no John I said leave it to the professionals implying the professionals
This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/26/2008.
This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/26/2008.
This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/26/2008.This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/26/2008.
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Hi FIN,
thanks for reply you obviously got the answer to what I was trying get to the bottom of and I thank you for the polite responce this is what the forum is about good info from whatever source whether you agree or not to the answer.
ask a question and if I can I will respond but not if it is of a confidential nature as to who and or exact numbers sorry but that was part of the agreement with the members from the start.
I was asking because I don't have a BG so have no documentation to refer to such as the small print which you agree is vital before you sign up to that document.
I can't even find an example of said document type in relation to off plan purchases but can for international shipping and such.
I see that most of your references are to insurance claims i can see the simularity but without substantive document to read through sill don't see where those with BG's stand as there is no reference to them in the concorsor process that I can find
regards
Brianmags
R4 556
I Want My House
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Hi Brian and FIN I understand Fin's point about the BGs being a bit like an insurance policy small print etc however I disagree on a few points .The BGs are a one paged document not any small print.A clear legal document stating the fact that the bank or financial institution has a legal and prior obligation to pay back the deposit if things go wrong .As to Brian's point that he can not find info regarding BGs in relation to off plan properties I do not understand this point BGs relate to off plan properties and were brought into law for this purpose. It is illegal for a builder to take a deposit/staged payments without issuing a BG it must be issued as soon as the builder receives the deposit ,usual timescale is 4 weeks after payment is made .About the conditions and legalities there are a few things which the BG must state to be indisputable in law things to look for is AVALA or primer requerimiento .Another point is the question about checking what you are signing up to in relation to BGs the client does not sign they are issued signed and stamped by the bank they clearly state the purchasers name NIE number Passport number and details of the property for which the deposit has been payed completion date of property etc.It is illegal to have a expiry date on the BG they remain in force until which time the keys are handed over at which time the BG must be surrendered to allow you to take over the owner ship of your property .I have the original BG document and it was made clear to me how important this document was ,to guard it with my life because if I did not return this document I would not be given my keys .Now as to why when Spanish law is very clear and has been tested and proven on numerous occasions through the courts are banks not paying . Quite simply they have been asked not to by SJ/Administrators for few reasons
1. SJ would rather have a lot of small creditors waiting in line than larger creditors like banks
ie if the bank pays out to a purchaser they then become a crediter of SJ for the amount of the BG ie they have to wait in line for their money not the purchaser.
2. Banks ask purchasers to go to court in the hope that many will give up because of the hassle and cost involved and many will.
3.It is in SJs interest that when the Admin report back to the court they are able to say we have customers who wish to complete not we have a queue of people who want their money back and have a prior legal right to it thus making the banks even bigger 1st line creditors of the company.This situation would have suited SJ when prices were rising and they could easily find new purchasers and re sell at a higher price but it does not suite them now as there are no new purchasers to be found re global credit crunch and lack of lending .
4. Corruption and protecting each other
There will be no mention of the position of purchasers with BGs in the concurso process because technically they do not have to enter the process although those with good astute lawyers did just incase. However they are not really persuing the administration route as the best hope for return indeed the only way to recover all of the deposit + costs plus the 6% interest per year as stipulated in the terms of the BGs is through the court .Forcing banks to honour their legal obligation.
All this said the best chance of getting a good outcome from this is for those with a BG of any kind. Sorry if some don't like that but it is fact ,that is why any law firms doing joint litigation cases for many purchasers grouped purchasers immediately into those who have and those who do not have BGs. Hope this helps answer some of your questions Brian JA
This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/27/2008.
This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/27/2008.
This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/27/2008.This message was last edited by julie anne on 9/27/2008.
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Hi Julie Anne
Thank you for a very good, clear answer. Whatever you were drinking last night has worked wonders - even if you haven't revealed your sources!
Sue
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Sue Walker
Author of "Retiring the Ole Way", now available on Amazon
See my blog about our life in Spain: www.spainuncovered.com
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Malcolm & Linda
Yep, plenty of rain and thunder, has been for the last week and will continue until Oct 1st when we expect much brighter weather. The ramblers (ravines) are full and once again the beaches covered in all sorts of muck, ...as this is where the ramblers dump all the water, sea is a murky brown.
That weather broadcast was sponsored by IWMMB
D&M
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