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Hi all
First peice of advice i have is not to panic, easy to say eh....
The lawyers are the people who represent you, not SARC or anyone else. The Spanish building industry has 2 problems, its not busy and it is corrupt.
The last article was in a newspaper was it? Write to the Sunday times en mass and let them know there are developments to a story they ran a few weeks ago, i am going to this weekend. Tell them the situation is now dire, lets higher the profile and do what we were going to do before half the investors were told everything was going to be ok.
Lets get some suggestions going here peeps......
Maybe start a diffeerent strand from Santa anna?....its a dead duck as far as i can see.
Oh and if you are wondering.....i am still waiting a solicitors letter to tell me to be quiet..........
Brian
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Best wishes, Brian
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Hi again.....This is said without prejudice of course
Reading through the understandable anger around from a couple of posters, just my view on the SARC manager questions.
I have no self recrimination about criticising the methods or statements bandied about by them in the name of a group of investors. I stand by statements they wish me to retract, i am a little bitter about the possible talent in their membership thats gone un tapped, because of the fools gold approach to the campaign,,,,(thats how its spelled by the way campaign.....not campiange).
If anyone thinks there has been an organised method of securing money by these managers, from the builders, in a corrupt way, please remember that would involve brains and talent to pull off.
Carefull not to vent anger on the 'possible things that might have been going on', its a bit lynch mob mentality. It would be better to take a measured approach and do what you think is right in the circumstances.
So on the other hand if you feel really strongly that this may be another part of the corruption of spanish building practice, and have any evidence to support the theory that SARC management or members has in any way had benefit through their actions, go to your MP and ask for advice.
Ask for advice about, for example, senior health proffesionals, as stated within the forum on several occasions, setting up a website to possibly assist a builder in spain in administration, provide false hope to many investors and only succeeding in diverting pressure from them. Ask then, did this affect the outcome or the investigation or administration? Is there a case to look at the organisation from a personal financial disturbance or loss claim.
Would you have been any better off had they not existed at all?
Consider meetings with the Mayor, flights to Spain, who paid and what receipts are available?, even possible use of health service personel to build websites? management travelling to Spain and holding a meeting whilst away from work ill perhaps? Maybe there is scope for some valid questions?
These are just questions i would ask.......there could be some merit in asking them maybe?
Brian This message was last edited by briando55 on 9/12/2008.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Could be perhaps there have been complaints perhaps someone could ask Justin. After all he agreed to attach the link to their web page .How much did he find out about their motives and honesty before allowing the link ,perhaps like the rest of us he took them at face value.
No matter where they are now or why they are not posting the fact remains that they have done alot of damage and been detremental to
1) The true facts comimng out.
2) The emotional well being and false hope of others.
3) The pro longing of peoples hopes and dreams with no solid evidedence other than the Word of SJ
4) Refusing to believe that there could be any wrong doing or illegal actions committed by SJ and encouraging others to believe all was well.
5) mis representing facts especially when stating what the financial outcome for others may be thus bullying other purchasers into feeling they had no choice except to adopt the same false hopes that houses would be built and developments finished by SJ.
6) Claiming in face to face meetings wiyh SJ and officials to represent ALL purchasers when infact they were representing very few .
7) Claiming in face to face meetings with SJ and officials the purchasers they represented wanted to continue with their purchase and supported SJ
8) Held these meetings in which they claimed to represent ALL pusrchasers in secret without telling anyone members or purchasers until after said meetings had taken place.
9) Accepted freebies from SJ as way of thanks for said meetings.
As we now know SARC leaders were wrong and were dealing with persons who in all likely hood have committed fraud and are guilty of criminal acts and are to be reported to the criminal court by shareholders very soon for their criminal actions and lack of accountability for the assets .Many people are dissapointed and many more disgusted with the actions of SARC .
Where are they now or like SJ these last few days are they also unavaliable to comment.
SARC leaders your silence is comfirming your guilt and wrong doing in all this.
This message was last edited by garcia on 9/12/2008.
This message was last edited by garcia on 9/12/2008.This message was last edited by garcia on 9/12/2008.
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Hi AuntieLinda,
You can see the amount of concern from these posts. As you were at the July Meeting with Tony and Brian, can you comment at all on the possibility of these posts being true as neither are responding now on this Forum. I am not linking you in anyway, but hope you may have an opinion ?
Sal
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Sal
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Martin - re tony/ brian.
reminds of the joke about two brat packers stuck in the jungle. they heard a noise in the distance and realised lions were a plenty.
one brat packer started to run
the other sat down and undid his backpack, and took out some running shoes
"what are you "said his friend, "leaving you behind" as he sped off into the distance
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arnoldg, I just can't believe that there are people either small or evil minded enough to think that I would wish for people to lose their money, especially if by deception, theft ot anything else illegal, irrecspective of what they are, who they are, or how they have reacted to any of my comments.
I have never said or thought that I wished the development did not proceed, nor would like people to lose out, actually it is to the contrary, where I have stated that I hoped people wouldn't, but fear they may.
If it is what you believe then so be it, but it must be a very sad world you live in, if you wish suffering on someone, just because they may not agree with your comments and thoughts.
I don't know the others that you mention, but wouldn't mind betting that their thoughts are the same as mine and don't wish harm in any way, just because of comments made on a forum.
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Sal It was Linda Needham that was present at the meeting not Great Auntie Linda. We are all extremely concerned at the lastest revelations coming out of Spain regarding SJ/HdT financial shenanigans! I joined SARC, I also tried to transfer to try and protect my cash. SARC gave me hope that some good could come out this terrible situation, even if this was a false hope it has helped me get through the last 4 months. However with this latest news I have instructed my Lawyer I no longer wish to continue with the purchase and now wish the return of my deposit. I am not hopeful of the outcome but I do not wish to have anymore dealings with this company. Who in their right mind would want to live in a white elephant? Cheers Joanniemac
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I think Brian and Tony are absolute idiots as I have made very clear. they have not been banned as the banner for their website still remains and Justin would not ban them as their entertaining bull is the one thing that has kept this forum controversial and busy.
Whilst I think they are a disgrace, I think our continual panning of them has meant that anyone reading this forum has been in a position to read both sides of the story.
I therefore think it is unfair to blame them for any misfortune of others. People form their own destiny
Multiple people have written that they should not be listened to and each person capable of buying a house is equaly as capable of making their own decisions.
I do not believe that they have been 'paid off' they were deluded to the point that I believe they were generally convinced that they were right in their convictions. (they do not have the intelligence to be that deceptive) and take it from me even if san jose had offered some benefits, they would not be delivered as san jose do not deliver on any deals.
They have not affected any process as the extraction of funds tells me that there was never any sincere wish for the business to continue. Any effects of anything different is smoke and mirrors to try and avoid criminal charges.
In reality Brian and Tony will be equally as gutted as us all as their dreams and hard earned money are just as at risk. the sad thing for them is that they have put their eggs in one basket and made no legal challenges to the process before the deadline in worst case eventualities. they paid for a lawyer who appears to have done nothing but advise them inaccurately and not fought for any justice.
They therefore will be the biggest losers out of all of this. as fellow owners they have my sincerest sympathy. For their beliefs they have my pity. there is nothing to be gained from venting your anger at them the anger should be vented alone to the solicitors, banks and developers who have all corruptly taken our hard earned cash and dreams.
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Joannie, I think you right about those pair being incredible stupid.
There solicitor was introduced to them by san jose!
Eugenio Pedreño Balibrea. Abogado.
Mare Nostrum Solicitors & Services, S.L.
Avda. Mariano Ballester, núm. 7, bajo.
30710 Los Alcázares (Murcia).
Telf. 968 137374 Fax. 968 137465.
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Joannie, I think you right about those pair being incredible stupid.
There solicitor was introduced to them by san jose!
Eugenio Pedreño Balibrea. Abogado.
Mare Nostrum Solicitors & Services, S.L.
Avda. Mariano Ballester, núm. 7, bajo.
30710 Los Alcázares (Murcia).
Telf. 968 137374 Fax. 968 137465.
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I do not believe that the assets quoted of 300m were audited assets, but valuations by the Company tp set as colateral against borrowings. It depends on what the funders insist upon. Some will insist on independent valuers and approved by the bank valuers, and on their panel.
Some will alow independent valuers who are not on the panel, which is where things can go astray, in the event that the valuer is in the pocket of the company requiring funding.
It is the ultimate aim of the borrower, to maximise their assets as the more assets they have, the more funding they can get.
It is also possible that valuations are done on land, based on future use, be it residential or commercial or a mix.
Normally, there is a clause that the valuation is subject to consent being granted, although consent to develop, does not mean consent to construct.
It the property market crashes, the land value clashes. Much the same as in UK at present, where major housebuilders have seen their landbank (assets), havle from what they were 12 months ago.
If you assume the 300m was the valuation given by the compaany, you can probably de-value that 25% min, then devalue by 50% for market problems. Not really much left. Whereas debts increase due to interest, legal costs, overheads, etc.
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Thaks FIN
With respect i think we have been trying to second guess the administration now for too long....look where it got the SARC guys.
Leave it till the end and see what comes back as official. The administrators know the worth of the company better than ayone can speculate. The big question is who can you trust.......i havnt had a reply from my lawyer yet, 24 hours now....hope hes not on a yacht sippin pina colada with tony, brian and roddy (del boy) riguez
Dont forget we have 2 administrations....one with a white elephant and one without......i stayed in the one without.
They must have spread the risk/reward over two companies for a reason......maybe one is more of a going concern and one is a dead duck...who knows.
I will try and keep humerous and wait my fate.....sometimes things are never as bad as they seem.......
Brian
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Best wishes, Brian
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Hi All just read a post on the general forum saying that SJ have declared themselves bankrupt. Dont know how reliable this information is but thought I would let you all know. Cheers Joanniemac
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Hi FIN
The difference between us and them is they have a system that allows protection from creditors. The holiday company in the UK today was the British way......go bust in mid air and the administrators are immediately winding up.
The San Jose one is like a chapter 11 US system....protection from creditors, when cash flow or circumstances are too hot to handle.
The administrators are in charge of the valuations and the trading account. They have to declare the worth or trading position.
The fat lady is miles away yet, our next aim is to know the worth of the company and the way the authorities look to pay out the creditors.
By all means if you know these figures let us know FIN......but dont do a SARC on us, we dont want any more fabrication.!!!!!
The economics lessons are over.....stick to the nitty gritty and lets get into the system now eh.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Exactly I don't think there will be anything left , I just wish the judge would decide and put us out of our misery,let us know exactly where we stand there is no point in any of us arguing through costly legal battles if there is nothing left to give . The decent thing for the court to do is to tell us in no uncertain terms where we stand.The thought of the will we wont we scenario for months or years is too much.I just want this all to be over .If there is no chance of getting anything out of this I for one would rather know sooner rather than later so I can cut my losses and not be forced to throw any more of my money or time at this mess.
The BG situation with the banks is a disgrace it is time the banks stated exactly why they are not paying out as the way I read the law there is no good reason for them not to pay out.The powers that be should bring the banks to task and force them to pay without the need for court cases .Then at least some people may be able to walk away from this without loss.
I don't think all of this is receiving enough publicity the world and his dog should know about this so as no one ever buys off plan in Spain again or at least until it is a lot more regulated and above all enforced. JA
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