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Tony, you miss the point on so many things, then advise people on what they write, then suggest what they should write prior to their comment.
Can we assume that if someone on here takes your advice and starts "I beleive.... " , " I feel...." or "in my opinion.....", that you would accept responsibility and liability in the event of litigation taken against the writer, who may have taken your advice.
Much the sam as your suggestions in earlier days, when you openly advised what people should be doing, without first "I beleive.... " , " I feel...." or "in my opinion.....",
PS. worth perhaps looking at the true definition in law for your suggestions, and mine.
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Hi FIN and Tony
To try and settle your differences can you look up at any time, anyone in a forum who has made a statement about a company in difficulty or unable to deliver on promises, anyone at all who has found themselves in litigation and lost, for any kind of disparaging remark based on opinion.
If you find any at all then come back and place it on here as a reference and lets get some boundaries established.....otherwise i am comfortable that my own words could be defended in principle or through experience in front of any qualified judge. I wont listen to anyone trying to give me advice about what i should or shouldnt say.
I will continue to say what i want when i think it appropriate and use any self censorship i think is fitting thanks.
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
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briando55, I hope that by now you will have realised that I too have a mind of my own, do not belong to any sect and am with you on this, insomuch as if I believe in something and believe it is correct, am prepared to state it and face the consequences.
I just get fed up when people make suggestions on how a contributor should write a comment, when they themselves do not appreciate libel and slander laws, so what position are they in to advise?
Because you do not have the same beliefs as some, you are looked upon as a trouble maker.
Keep to your beliefs, protect your own back and good luck to you. Hope it ends well for you in getting your money back, whatever route you have to take.
How far have you looked into the issue of a "Winding Up" order of a company in Spain. Such is not possible whist a Company is in Administration I know.
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Hi Briando
Firstly how are you getting on is evrything Ok apart from this I hope so.
Yes to your responce we are all creditors no problem there as you uderstand papers sometimes shorten things for editorial reasons .
as for their slant I believe that they ae shortened the process but what will happen if they get refinance is that everyone will be asked what they want ie house or monies hence (the leagal representation)
If you choose to carry on with the purchase your funds are removed from the pot and can't be used to repay creditors if you choose to get money back then it moves into general payments pot (I believe I moght have this wrong) then you que up with the rest in line where you may be 4th in the payment line or general creditor.
Those with BG's I can't quite figure out as there is no special catorgary where BGs are named in the higherarchy of payments it might be that the Banks pay them and then they claim as at second tier after the employees and courts as they are first in Line.
I have certainly not said that those that want their money back would lower status than those wanting their house just that they are 4th in line for payment out it is in that article on our site but they may have to await a time to get it as the company would have upto 5 years to pay them back under concursol rules pay back creditors.
As for the building site SADM is vital to their recovery as is El Pinet with out these two there is no route to recovery the time frame must be realistic and your quote of a date of 2018 is nonsence as there is a higher revenue for returns on thiose that aread have paid deposits and the asministrators have said that phase one will be completed first with full 18 hole golf course.
think on they have an outstanding revenue of 70% to collect so they argument about newcommers with just 30% that will have to be in protected account they need that 70% to pay for future phase builds as it gives them CASH.
what say you
regards
brianmags
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Hi FIN
I have not looked any further than the first stage of administration at the moment. One thing about law and due process is that you can't go over or under or round it. It happens in a certain way and shouldnt have influence from outside interests or persuasion.
The initial decision of the administrators in many ways is a start to the process of bankruptcy, or a resolution to a crisis. One thing is for sure, the administrators can ill afford to make any mistakes or improper judgements, it will re-bound.
Winding up is an option through petition i am told, similar to the UK.
Its something to explore if there are any silly conditions applied to this process, things like 'we will build at one place and not others, we will not pay people who are legaly entitled to refunds...that sort of misjudgement.
A winding up order in the UK makes a demand on a company to pay all creditors, or prove they can do so, within 90 days. I would love to exercise that on SJ if the administration did anything silly...........it would really set things alight eh. SJ would be vulnerable if they come back as a trading company out of concurso..............If they were falling short of performance they couldnt get concurso again.....it would be straight to full administration. And having had a recent administration it would probably be straight to bankruptcy.
No one should underestimate the serious nature of this concurso.....if it has any strange decisions to it it could spell the end for any houses being built and for SJ
I have said many times....be carefull people
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
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BGs, Bank Guarantees, there is a clue in the title. Bank Guarantee. The contract is with the bank. If the BG is to be excercised, what has the constructor or their creditors to do with it, when the contract is with the Bank.
It is like having car insurance, having a bump and trying to claim off the manufacturer. Your contract is with the insurer.
A BG is a contract or agreement (Insurance), underwriting performance and supply of goods.
Surely this has been explained to all purchasers by their lawyers?
briando55. Yes a winding up order in Uk is certainly a way of seeing things move at pace in many instances. Example. Company of £10m T/O. Owed a small company just a few hundred. No payment received, so notice presented of a winding up order to be taken out against them. Money paid within 7 days. Just not worth the risk to many companies having Public Notices issued for such an order. You must be 100% certain of facts, otherwise, you can be held liable for damages to the company if proved your claim was unjust. This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 8/13/2008.
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Hi Braindo,
With the impending refininancing of SADM purchasers have the choice to contiune with their purchase or remain as a creditor and go through the process of agreed repayment schedules. I do not see how that can not be understood. For every ones information we were very strongly advised to stick with our purchase by our Barrister, who specoilises in this process. I am sorry if you do not like it but that is the way that it is.
I am sorry that you nor Fin appreciate the concern that you may be on a sticky wicket if statements of innapropriate behaviour against companies are not based on truth or fact but perception or personal circumstances. I only urge caution in the way these comments are worded and that was well intenioned advice not a critisism.
All the best to you
Tony
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Hi Brian
The thinks that give me concern are the black white scenarios that are mentioned. For instance it is impossible to finance the building sites in every area at once. It is already proven it dosnt work, there are more things than credit crunch at work with SJ performance in delivering completed housing.
Then there are sites, such as albatera and others which can have no confidence to offer in delivering to customers a finished product. And ones like El Pinet which are good to go and profitable.
The company or administrators simply have no right to ask some people to wait an undefined time period while others have sites and houses completed, its not going to happen. The power of creditors is too great to ignore.
The length of time to deliver a verdict on funding from a bankruptcy is 5 years or so as i understand the estimates. The length of time to find out the profitability of a company through concurso is short. Concurso protects a company from bankruptcy petitions etc. Once its out of concurso i am afraid its business as usual Brian, normal rules apply and the creditors teeth can be drawn again.
Everyones (creditors) interests are represented in concurso, not one site or one house, the interests of an investor out of contract time is as big a consideration as a person with only 5 roof tiles left to put on.
If the concurso favours one euro over another euro it will be open to challenge and there will be plenty to challenge it. The implications of the administrators making wrong decisions to us....and SJ are immense.
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
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OK, let's assume a miracle has happened and SJ are allowed to continue trading.
Whether you want your house or your money ALL are creditors.
Only when you house is supplied to your, or your money returned, are you not a creditor.
If you cannot see how that is not correct, please make contact with your Barrister and I am certain he will explain to you.
Go to your local furniture store tomorrow. Pick a bed, pay for it and arrange delivery. Until the minute you receive the goods, you are a creditor of that company, be it a trading company, in administration, or bankrupt.
Look at any company accounts (easy to do at Companies House, as long as you pay), and just observe the details on creditors, although it is a trading company and not in administration.
It is so simple. I am sorry if you do not like it but that is the way that it is.
This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 8/13/2008.
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Hi Tony
If the impending re-financing of SJ does not go ahead now......can everyone sue you for saying it will take place?
Course not. My advice, for what its worth is keep the information about the re-financing to yourself, its none of our business at this stage, just something for the administrators to take into account
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Best wishes, Brian
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As the re-financing is "impending" ( something that is going to happen soon), are the Administrators aware?
Perhaps they will read it here first and realise they have been wasting their time.
I think some evidence is needed here.
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Hi All,
It appears that we are to stick our heads in the sand and not listen when we are told about the refinancing of SADM, very strange as that is the whole point. What do you think the financial institutions are doing negotiating with SJ and the administrators. As for the use impending it does not denote finalised! I am sure that most SADM purchasers will be more than pleased to know that SADM is most likely to be proceeding. I am sorry if that is upsetting for some.
All the best
Tony
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No, many stuck their head in the sand some months ago, when the writing was on the wall. They have now come up for breath and are running arround like headless chickens.
What I think the financial institutions are doing negotiating with SJ and the administrators, is the same as they would be doing in any such event. Investigating, evaluating, safeguarding their funds.
Such happens when a company goes into Administrations.
Funders will be called upon to explain why they would not support the customer prior to Administration.
Normal business.
Impending. I think you will find the definition is something like: something that is going to happen soon, although not finalised or implemented.
I for one wish that SADM would proceed, but still feel that many would be looking at how they can pull out and get their money back, rather than risk their money with the same Board and Management, that have given them so much heartache.
Sorry if that upsets some and wouldn't for one moment expect all to agree.
Can just see the ad for the remainder of the premises which are not sold.
Out of Administration now. Only 5 years late so far. Trust us with your money. We are experienced.
All should carry on as they think best and in 6 months or so, remember, it was their decision from now on in. This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 8/13/2008.
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Not in the slightest
Sounds like decent news to me Tony
The members of SARC should be aware that any re-financing is for the company of San Jose and its business plan, not for the exclusive use of your site.
It may be worth me re-making a point from ages ago, which i am sensing you may not have grasped. The concurso is voluntary from SJ and they are protected from creditors until its finished.
When its finished, the company have to deal with eveeryone all over again.....it dosnt take all those nasty people who want their mone back away........it brings them back into the equation......did you forget that? Have you told your members yet?
Brian
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Best wishes, Brian
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So hands up.
Let's assume the miracle has happened.
How many will hope and wait to get their house and pay more installments, if a condition, to the same Directors and management?
How many will try to take their money and run?
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Hi Guys,
Can any clear up the position of those with BG's I have searched and searched but can't find any special provision for them in Concurso I understand how it works with us who don't have BGs and the other creditors and where in line we fall as ordinary creditors but can't find anything specific to do with BG's in this process.
any Ideas anyone
brianmags
R4 556
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Sorry Brian
I also have no BG and have been asking for anyone to let me know when they get paid out, so far i have positive outcomes for two BG's, both exercised before the concurso.
If the Concurso is protection from creditors for a short period, i suppose it follows the BG is not in the scheme?
The BG could be exercised afterwards or outside the administration anyway i would have thought, as a straw pole, how many sarc members have BG's, is it a low percentage?
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Best wishes, Brian
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Are you for real?
You are making statements about who is in negotiation to take over san jose based on businesses accessing your website? Because that really would be a first stop for a company looking to invest?
And then you say that the president of san jose may have made a mistake by talking about a russian company as he got confused?
maybe you should have stood up for him then and talked to all the shareholders. You obviously are in the know
It is a joke
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