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Hi All,
I still have seen no sensible or sane reason for going for the money, particularly if it not there. The only people who win in that situation are those with BGs. Now why is it that those who hold a differing point of view to I Want My House feel the need to come onto the thread and deride or push down any positive postings?
I have read the IWMMB thread and I am sorry but all I read is comments about SARC and no information as to why purchasers should have that as the out come of choice.
I wonder why that is and why the frantic efforts to try to silence the I WANT MY HOUSE CAMPAIGN? Could it be that despite the comments made to the contrary those who oppose the idea of the properties being built actually believe it is possible that SADM will go ahead? Why else waste all that time and effort coming on to this thread and pushing postings down and deriding /ignoring any information that supports the continuation of SADM!
It is very very important that all purchasers do not in their impatience and frustration make hasty decisions about their rights to purchase their property before they know from the court what the options and time frames are. This is a time for patience and a cool head not jumping into the fire from the frying pan.
I beleive that the best out come is to realise the purchase and then sell up and get the money back that way. An asset in the hand is worth so much more than a process in the court.
PS Sal just because our home pc''s had problems that did not stop the email nor website functioning nor us communicating via work email. And yes the SARC membership has gone up and I hope that it continues to do so.
All the best to you all.
I WANT MY HOUSE
Tony R 17 18
SO all the best to you all
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Tony
I applaud your comments regarding useful information being over-ridden, it happens on every thread not just on this one and perhaps all should sit up and take notice as it's driving many away, or making those with any snippet of information wary of posting.
I do however have one point to push back at you -- your comments regarding going through with the purchase and then selling the 'asset' is completely at a loss and you stand to lose far more than those who want something back from what they have invested. For example, i know of a number of people who have tried to switch-purchase on Playa Golf, and are expected to buy at the original site price, ie the price that was far more inflated that Santa Ana equivilent due to the cost of the land the plot was originally purchased at. I have a number of personal friends on that urb and I can say with all honesty, the price they are being sold at by the developer and the price being asked for re-sale is definately nowhere near a match. Againg for an example which i posted some time ago.....an azucena was being sold by SJG for €220,000.00. The neighbour next to our friends are selling theirs, with an added underbuild, fully furnished for €145,000.00................and it wont sell.
So if the IWMH group go through with the purchase (saying that it does get completed) and you purchase at the original 'off-plan' price which you are contracted to do so, then when you take ownership, like a brand new car off of the forecourt, the depreciation on properties over here is huge and unless you can see the market taking a serious up-turn in the next 5yrs which it's forecast not to do so, then you stand to lose against your investment and not make any return. The positives for IWMMB group, lets say they get 70% back for arguements sake, the current ,market valuation of properties over here at the moment is between 30-40% below costs 2yrs ago so even with the initial loss, they can still afford to buy a similar or better property without any major increase......in fact, it has an even better return if you calculate numbers, and I'll happily give you my numbers for an example.
Santa Ana Amopola - deposit €94,000.00 - to pay €80,000.00 + I.V.A (€15,000.00 fas) = €95,000.00
Money returned @ 70% - €65,800.00
Similar property - 40% market drop €190,000.00 - 40% = €114,000.00 (fact)
Deposit €65,800.00 to pay €50,000.00 ish
which as i see it has me a saving of approx €15,000.00 on raw sums for a similar property
Please do not be fooled into thinking this site alone in spain will give you or anyone an immediate r.o.i.....it won't
regards
Darren
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Correct Darren,
And picking up on your first point. One of the reasons the transfer figures from San Jose are so high is that they re-morgaged some if not all of their empty properties to raise capital. So in order to sell you an alternative property they have to cover the mortgage they took out plus your deposit.
I also posted quite a detailed report some time ago based on transfering using the Azucena model, to point out that you could lose more by transferring than simply picking up a resale and foregoing your deposit.
I sincerely hope SJ get refinanced. Then I can sue them for my deposit plus 6% compound interest and costs.
Regards to all,
Steve.
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Well posted Darren.
This echos my thoughts and i am sure the thoughts of many others who were aware of the resale values of SJ propertys. The difference being you took the time and effort to put it writing. Bravo.
Ken.
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Can Tony "ping" "almu" an email to establish latest San jose spin on this interesting article on Spanish Property Insight.
Posted on October 2, 2008 by Spanish Property News
Filed Under Environmental issues |
The European Commission is investigating more than 250 new housing projects and urbanisations in Spain that may not have sufficient water to meet the needs of residents, reveals Stavros Dimas, European Environmental Commissioner, in response to a recent parliamentary question by MEP David Hammerstein. The projects are located in located in Andalucia, Castilla-La Mancha, Murcia, and the Valencian Community.
Some of the projects are under construction or have planning approval, despite local water boards refusing to guarantee future water supplies, claims Hammerstein, a Spanish MEP for the Greens.
In a response to Hammerstein during September Dimas wrote that his department “has begun an investigation into these projects, requesting information from the Spanish authorities on expected additional demands on water, and how they will guarantee the environmental objectives of the EU’s water directive.”
The Commission has also asked Madrid for a list of housing projects awaiting planning approval that have been turned down by water boards. The EC has also asked the Spanish government to explain its plans to “guarantee compliance with the water directive, and preserve the quality and quantity of water resources in the medium and long term.”
According to Hammerstein, the investigation could “question the legality of plans to build hundreds of thousands of homes in areas with endemic water shortages.”
“The construction boom has an insatiable thirst that is incompatible with a sustainable future for drinking water as required by the EU,” argues Hammerstein
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This article also of interest. If the EEC gravy train MEP's every make a decision this could be a foothold to a class action against San jose directors:-
Posted on September 10, 2008 by Spanish Property News
Filed Under Environmental issues, Land grab, Valencia property |
The European Parliament has ordered another report – the third of its kind – into Spanish urban development practises, in its latest response to thousands of complaints about urban planning and property rights abuses from home owners in Spain.
In a letter in support of the report, the Polish president of the Petitions Committee, Marcin Libicki, noted that his committee has verified “the problems suffered by several thousand European citizens who have chosen to buy property in Spain.” He pointed out that the problems affect both Spaniards and non-Spaniards alike.
Justifying a new report, Libicki cites the abuse of property rights, the violation of EU public tender rules, environmental damage, and “many illegal buildings, some under threat of demolition. A problem which affects thousands of people who bought their properties in good faith from unscrupulous intermediaries that have sometimes been protected by the local authorities.”
“The issue is of the utmost importance, and affects the lives of many, especially the growing number of retirees who have moved to Spain to enjoy their retirement,” says Libicki.
Right-of-centre Spanish MEPs voted against the new report, and attacked Spain’s Socialist MEPs for supporting it. Spanish MEP Gerardo Galeote criticised the “irresponsibility of the Spanish Socialist MEPs, who during this legislature have consistently brought up internal Spanish matters for debate in the European Parliament, and encouraged the criminalisation of a sector that has played a key role in Spain’s economic development and job creation in recent years.”
The report should be ready for a vote in the European Parliament by January 2009.
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Hi Darren,
Many thanks for your polite posting ,I do understand your comment and the logic that you have applied. However, the value of the property can go up as well as down and with the new motorway link to Alicante that could counter any depreciation in value. The value of the properties at SADM would be influenced by many factors and therefore although it is a short term concideration any property purchase should be viewed in the longer term.
If SADM does not go ahead the money that purchasers have all ready paid over is as good as lost in this current economic climate. It would therefore, seem a more sensible and prudent appraoch to go for an asset that will in the medium to long term go up in value. I know that for some thismay not be tenable but it is better that SADM goes ahead, makes sales, generates income and then has the capacity to pay them back. If SADM does not go ahead what assests are available to realise their value and what would they get in the current economic climate and what proportion would eventually get to the purchasers after those ahead of them in the creditor que? I beleive that it would be minimal and the only purchasers that would benifit are those with BGs. In fact it may be that they wish for SADM not to go ahead to make it easier for them to action the BGS? Just a thought.
Any way it is better to have something rather than end up with next to nothing. I have discussed this with a chartered accountant and he advises to stay with the build and avoid becoming a creditor in a liquidation process. In his experience payouts are low and it is better to go for the completion of a tangible asset.
I therefore strongly suggest that all purchasers that do not have a BG try to relax and await the court decision, which hopefuly we will all know soon
So all the best to you all.....
I MOST DEFINATELY WANT MY HOUSE.
Tony R17 18
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Hi Darren,
I agree some what in your comments well put together but the other side is that if tey go bust you might only 10% of your money back the figure &0% as stated would be a reasonable offer if they had the cash but they don't that is why they went into Concurso. So they would be given time to try and raise the finance then we would have to wait until the assets were sold and at what value less courts fee and emplyeees , then the Banks we would get what is left maybe so as far as I can see the only way out is to get the developement completed to original specs
regards
Brianmags
R4 %%6
I Want My House
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Hi All,
Nice of Almred to show that the EU is out of touch with local issues, but we all know that in the UK.
I WANT MY HOUSE
Tony R17 18 This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.
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For f...ks sake Tony not only are you (and your little posse) able to sit round the table with architects, and planners regarding layout of Santa Ana, you are also now so powerful you control Brussels.
Grow up you stupid man
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Just in case people are not aware Mark Stucklin, runs Spanish Property Insight website, he is a recognised expert in Spanish property, and law, and writes regularly editoral in the Sunday Times. He is also a regular commentator on many programmes and magazines where they seek independent views.
I very much doubt he would post headline news on his web portal if they were not true.
Make your own minds up
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Hi Almred,
What an interesting retort you made, I noticed the gender comment are you female?Not that it is truly relevant to the content of your postings but interesting.I wonder who you are?
I strongly suggest that you realise that carpet bombing reports may not apply to all locations and circumstances. There are allways exceptions and to think that evey one involved in the planning and agreement for the development of SADM did not take many differing factors into account prior to go forward with the project is crassly naive. The credit crunch, is a banking failure that unfortunately caught us all by surprise and it is the banks whom we should be annoyed with for removing the backing and getting every one in this mess!
So I await the court to make a decision and for us then to have the opportunity to decide " should I stay or should I go!"
In the meantime just in case you were not too sure as to where I stand .....
I WANT MY HOUSE
Tony R 17 18
This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.
This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.
This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.
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HI Darren.
Made the effort and came up with some(approx) figures of my own.
Azucena-deposit 36000 - balance 97000 + IVA 11000 = 108000
Money returned- Sweet FA
Similar property @ 133000 - 40% = 80000
Balance to pay 80000 saving 28000
SARC have been right all along ! this is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
Just to make sure i am not misunderstood the last statement was sarcasm.
Ken.
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Hi All,
The Alamred silly season continues its tour of the threads. I must admit that she does remind me of a 10 year old, so many thanks to her for the tip. As for the calculation done by kayem: I think that you should really think about what you are trying to prove.
There is no money for a refund of deposits so what are purchasers supposed to do? I say get the property and even if and it is a big if the price drops in the short term in the medium to long term it will go up. I think you should stop mixing up the price of properties on the over built coast with that of the under developed and desirable inland locations. I would of thought that most purchasers would of thought of all of this and really are not so niave to fall for the put downs of SADM that are being placed on this thread.
I still find it odd that on the other thread no good reason to justify going for the money and showing how it benifits purchasers rather than keeping with the purchase. I find it even more amazing as there is no money in the pot to pay back to purchasers and the only way forward is for the developemnt to go ahead. Thus there will be funds coming in and those who want their money back will be able to get it and those who wany there property can have it plus all being well see an increase in its value. Not forgetting:
The new motorway link to the coast at Alicante ( approx 30 mins )
Need I list all of the positives?
Yes I WANT MY HOUSE
All the best
Tony R17 18
This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.
This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.
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Tony - you know when your are flying out to Jumilla in 2052, did you know the Corvera airport near murcia will be nearer than 30 mis to Jumilla, and are you are aware of the A30.
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Hi Both,
Love to stay and chat but unfortunatly I do not really find your postings that relevant to I WANT MY HOUSE. As for for airports, Alicante will be only 30 minutes away ...oh and it was my solicitor who told me and it was confirmed by people who live up at Jumilla. about the new mtorweay being built.
Fin there is no money so it would be a bit pointless going for it. As for you being a nieghbour you would have to be a purchaser first, would you not? I must admit that I doubt that you are by the glib and some what daft remarks you at times make. But perhaps that is just the way I read them. If you are a purchaser I would not mind you being a nieghbour.
If people want there money back we need to get SADM built and for those who want their hosues to get them, thus there will be money to pay them back . I
All the best to you both
Yes I WANT MY HOUSE
Tony R17 18
This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.This message was last edited by TonyMal on 10/3/2008.
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In my eyes, there's only one person, that makes any relevant comments on this forum, and that's Darren ( & Michelle ).
There's far too much speculation on what will happen with SADM, as the only people that know what the outcome will be, are the courts, the administrators and thier legal system.
The fact that my Spanish Lawyer, when asked, the question, " Realistically, what are our chances of getting anything back ? ", their response was " Realistic chances are very high for getting, if not all, at least most of it back. The only problem will be how long all this takes. Could be a year."
That's all I need to hear right now !
I'd rather listen to someone in the know, than to listen to all the slanging matches that are going on in these threads.
Too many of you are venting your frustrations and anger in the wrong direction, i.e. at each other !............. That's my opinion !
I have to hand it to you TonyMal, for your persistence with the idea that there'll be a favourable outcome in terms of the development going ahead........ and being completed........ when ??
Property worldwide is being devalued at present, and for the immediate future, and as Darren has pointed out, the resale values are such now, that it is a buyers market.
I'd rather get some, or, most of my £50,000 back from SADM/HdT and then speculate on a purchase elsewehere, as the "Dream" for me, has now long gone !!
I shall await the outcome of the administration process, and the advice of my Spanish Lawyer, and until then, no one will sway me either way by their speculative conjecture.
Good luck to all of you.......whatever you want out of it..............but,please.............stop the slanging matches. It's doing no one any good......AT ALL !!
_______________________
Baz & Sue R10 - 36
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