I want my house

Hi Jaqib.

Yes the properties at Playa Golf will be factored into the coffers WHEN hdt go into liquidation. They unfortunately wont be worth a lot, as we have seen for example, resale Azucena's at Playa Golf  being advertised for €125,000 and the desperate buyers will almost certainly take €100,000 and quite possibly less. Land is not worth a lot and neither are houses. Therefore sj/hdts assets are nothing like the €300,000,000 that was initially quoted sometime last May or June.

The news is still bad and except for MAYBE  El Pinet, it wont get much better.

I speak as i see it not as Tony says.   [ My opinion only of course ] Take it or leave it.

              Bob.

Hi Bob in your opinion , If there were criminal actions and prosecutions could the assets of the other 10  companies and directors  be pulled on to the equation  ? 

In the event (which I don't doubt) that the individual companies were set up properly, I don't believe it is a possibility, unless funds were transferred from one to another (illegally and for no legitimate reason).
It is just the same with the large developers in UK. Each development tends to be independent XYZABC Houses (London) Ltd.

Whilst on the subject of Playa Golf, it is well known that many owners are still  without their title deeds as proof of ownership, many more than 12 months before SJ went into administration, without these they stand to lose their house in the future.   They have had to apply to the judge presiding over the administration for these deeds.

So you see, its not just the off plan projects where SJ were performing irregularities. 

Oh, and if you wondered how they move money, here's a scenario.  Company 'A' buys plots of land for a few euros, Company 'B' builds a couple of show homes and gathers in deposits.  Company 'A' sells land to company 'B' at extortionate rates, probably using up all the deposits in the process.  To complicate the scenario further, imagine if company 'A' was actually a member of a certain family and not a company at all.

Not too difficult really.

Keep up the good fight.

Hi Bob,

I respect your view point, however,I am sorry but your arguement is flawed but  it is a shame that you complete it by joining in with the sniping remarks. I also love the instant gang culture, which although interesting it has no effect or significace for me.

You compare SADM with the concrete waste land of the coast, you want to buy there go ahead, I have no intention of doing so .Why did I go for SADM, becuas a market that was not sustained by local purchasers but reliant upon expats with a gross over supply was heading for a fall. SADM is a different market and has Spanish as 45% of its purcahsers. So you and some others do want to be there, well that is your choice and I respect that but is it not rather crass for you to feel that the others who wish to SADM to go ahead should not be able to say so?

As it stands SARC is getting more members, I have been informed about % of purchasers (non Spanish) who want their property and I am sorry but it appears that a very large and significant number of purchasers want their properties

You point out isues with the assests and that raises the question of how are purcahsers supposed to get their money back?  It is amazing that the rights group ( I belive based in Marbella) have said that if you do not have a BG go for the property but you choose to ignore it.

I wish you well and hope that you have a positive outcome.

 I WANT MY HOUSE

Tony R 17 18

"As it stands SARC is getting more members, I have been informed about % of purchasers (non Spanish) who want their property and I am sorry but it appears that a very large and significant number of purchasers want their properties"
So certainly no problems then, the project will go ahead. One year from now we will look back and laugh at this time (or is it laugh at you and your beliefs?)

Hi Julie.

No the assets probably would not come into the equation of the other 10 companies. If funds were transferred illegally, then yes it could be fraud and court and prison. You must remember that a lot of these companies are not stupid and there are ways and means of transferring or hiding monies that can sometimes be very difficult to find even for the most professional of people, like administrators or taxmen. It can happen.

                    Bob.

All,

Anyone thought about setting up a poll ( or getting Justin to do it ) to find out how many people want their house or want their money back? Not sure if this can be done on this site but it would give a bit more credance to both arguements if we knew approximate numbers, ( not sure how many owners, read/post on this forum ) instead of these imaginary volumes of people supporting either.

Regards

Hi ALL,

AS can be seen from Hawkings posting the issue of funds in other companies is a red herring. The whole point of having different companies is that they each have their own liablilities and assets. THis therefore means that HdT stands on its own with no money coming from other companies under the umbrella. Yet again where are those without BG's supposed to getv there money from????

I  and a lot of other want our properties and stand by them. We do not wish to lose our money nor throw good money after bad and as for the coast, that really is not an option for many of us.

I do understand where you are all coming from and why you are doing it

Wishing you all well, even though it is not reciprocated.

I WANT MY HOUSE AND A POSITIVE OUTCOME FOR ALL

Tony R17 18

 Again Tony yet more lies. Show us the evidence of where all these people are and I can tell you how many cases the judge is registering (incidentes concursales) in this procedure (ooh spanish and english!!!! arent I clever) People will soon be able to see by record how many are registered for owners. It is at this point Tony that everyone will see what a true liar you are.

Is this your time to disappear for a few days? I know that, as per normal, you will have nothing to back up the very stupid comments that you make

TONY NO_ONE BELIEVES YOU SO GO AWAY. Just as you have asked Julie not to post PM's to you will you please listen to me and not post on here anymore????????

- Its got to be worth a try hasnt it?

Hi Tony

To calm a lot of this hyper posting down tonight.

Do you have any idea about the state of the possible finance for HdT.

As you report on many occasions, and if its true.HdT have no money, they are unable to build, they have to come out of the administration protection soon.  You have no other strategy than the builder to get more money, thats what your pinning hopes on so..........................

You said on SARC reports that the finance was imminent and there were 3 possible investors.  Now im not a high powered businessman or anything, but any strategy for financing and carrying on with the build, seems to lack any wind in its sails.

Whats the latest on this finance?

 My arse its a red herring. Just as the shareholders are taking the companies to court for misappropriation of funds..so shall the owners if they dont get their money back from HDT...and you can tell that to SJ and HDT!!!!!!!

 Tony.

Have to answer your question.

Quote: Yet again where are those without B.G's supposed to getv their money from????

Answer: From the sale of all the assets. Which means a small amount each over the next 5 or 6 years.

Not the whole deposit back just a proportion, perhaps 10%.

Thats what happens when a company goes bust. It happens all the time all over the world.

You talk about the people that want their house. What about the hundreds of people that are owed money that have not even bought a house. All the other creditors, like small, very small companies who have supplied sj/hdt with goods etc. and are owed money that they can ill afford to lose. They have not got bank guarantees or a house which may or may not be built. What about them? So when you talk about those that want their house getting it and those that dont want their house but want their money back getting that, dont forget to mention all the other creditors or do you really not care about them.

Finally Tony  when you called me crass. I did not say that others who wish SADM to go ahead should not be able to say so. I just said that as far as i was concerned, it would NOT go ahead. A subtle difference i think. Read my post again.

You like many others just have to try to twist things, which is very easy to do, but some of us cannot be bothered to play that game.

                   I WANT JUSTICE FOR ALL.  THEN I ALWAYS WAS A DREAMER.

                                          Bob.

Just a thought it is too late to think too hard but here goes .

Just plucking any old figures from the air to make my point

Purchaser buys a property set price 100,000 euros pays 50,000 deposit/staged payments .Builder goes into admin ,credit/housing crash happens.House is now valued at 60,000 but purchaser has agreed to pay 100,000 and that price stands .Purchaser needs mortgage for 50,000 Banks are no longer lending and even if they are banks are being srtict about doing proper valuations before lending.Property is valued by bank at 60,000 buyer has already paid 50,000 but still needs another 50,000 mortgage to complete .Bank say no way Jose . Unless buyer has readies mortgage is not possible UK ,Spain or any where in the world for that matter .

The point is for any purchasers who were relying on a mortgage continuing is no longer a possibility .For those who were considering a remortgage of another property UK or otherwise continuing is not a possibility .Even for many who were funding by selling up in the UK continuing may not  be a possibility .I can't imagine there are many UK or Spanish who are in a position to continue and pay the original price .If people read the inform HdT plan to re set prices and  renegotiate contracts  but not in the purchasers favour or to reflect current market values  .They want to account for increased build costs ,increase of licence cost etc .Therefore we are looking at paying more than we were origonally which with property falling would be finacncial suicide .

With out anyone giving private info they may not whish to divulge how do all the IWMHers intend to complete .No white rabbits, black top hats or magic wands Please just genuine ways any one thinks it is still possible to proceed if by some miricle HdT don't go under and there is a choice    Regards JA

Julie.

CORRECT.  New contract prices at SADM would be more. Properties elsewhere falling dramatically. Suicide. No one will do it. Therefore: As i said:

NO  SADM. Hear that Tony????

               Bob.

Hi Tony...............i will try to ask this one again, in the hope you might try to stick a reply to it

OK.................putting aside everything else............................

Do you have any idea about the state of the possible finance for HdT.

As you report on many occasions, and if its true.HdT have no money, they are unable to build, they have to come out of the administration protection soon.  You have no other strategy than the builder to get more money, thats what your pinning hopes on so..........................

You said on SARC reports that the finance was imminent and there were 3 possible investors.  Now im not a high powered businessman or anything, but any strategy for financing and carrying on with the build, seems to lack any wind in its sails.

Whats the latest on this finance?

Twitgit,

Why do you not stay on your own thread? or do you have a hidden agenda you started of with light hearted comments which at the start were mildly amusing but as usual there appears to be a hidden agenda of trying to convince us the sense of going down the route of the development. Don't want to go down the same old route of arguements for and against it has all been said and most have made up their minds as to what they want.

So can I please ask you to stick to your own thread and those of us who have no interest in what you have to say are not subjected to the useless witterings of someone who is in the throes of dementia and senility and is obviously so aged does'nt matter if her investment goes belly up.

Arlene

Hi Twigit.

Yes you are correct in saying that there are 2 different types of housing market in Spain, on the coast and inland and yes houses inland may not be falling quite as much, but to say: there's been very little shift in prices, inland i think is probably not correct when i look in the papers advertising house prices.

At the end of the day, not many people are buying holiday homes on the coast and the spanish people are not changing houses as much and first time buyers like in the U.K. are struggling to purchase their first home because of the credit crunch and a lack of money and also the banks are being a little more prudent with their lending. There maybe 2 different markets here but houses in general anywhere are just not selling fast enough and when that happens, house prices have to come down. Some areas are falling at a different rate than others but FALLING they are and dont look much like leveling out at the moment either.

Its a sorry state of affairs and i think will continue for a long time to come and unfortunately it will be even longer for Spain, due to the massive overbuild.

                                 Bob.

Thanks Bob

Twigitt

You say there has been little change in the value of inland housing.................

Can you prove that for me, i have information from professionals working in the industry that house prices inland rural Spain are doing what they have always done and selling slowly but in accordance with demand.  Prices are down but overall it makes no difference to the urban and sub-urban market.

The sub urban complex of housing, the type which we are most interested in, is in very poor health.  There is as much as a 60% drop in sales and as much as 30% fall in price, on houses completed.  There isnt enough generated sales to properly assess the market.

The you get down to speculative housing, in other words complexes not yet started.  These are not attracting buyers or investors or financiers.  A bit like the car making people all over Europe.  They are closing down production and not able to get money from banks.

Thats the true picture Twiggit. its a bit more than you can se from you bar stool at Pedro's

The upshot is.............you are not going to get your house built now.....................your right at the back of the queue.........the builder isnt going to come through for you..................

Now then......................you prove otherwise and we can have a proper debate