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So, the moral is that if you want information, no need to sign up to any sect, just read the local rag, speak to people who will share information (Darren), or do your own research.
5 years is one hell of a long time, inflation will certainly tell.
Money back when company "in the black", that is a clever one.
Heard of the company who offered to share profits with employees, except after management and directors bonuses and perks, there was littlw profit to share.
Could any gross profits be used to invest in future developments as opposed to paying out from profits.
Just how many companies of that size are "in the black"?
Quoting from a smaller company accounts this year.
T/O 22m profit 550K, so you may think that is quite healthy to have a 550K profit.
But...........the company despite having a profit, still has loans of 3.4m, so are they truly in the black or red?
What if they decide to pay the 550K of their borrowings, are they in the black or red?
Be warned, take advice.
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Hi Fin,
The local "rag" interviewed Brian and got the information from SARC. We have allways engaged with the local press and use all means necessary to get information out to purchasers but members get the information first.
As for repayment of monies over a 5 year period, please read the legal info and also the report. The whole point of the process is to identify debt and agree repayment terms over a fixed period of time within a maximum period.
All the best
Tony This message was last edited by TonyMal on 8/13/2008.
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Tony says that sensitive and confidential information such as who the prospective investors are etc., is available, therefore, it means that such confidential information is being leaked.
Doesn't sound to good a set up does it when the information is secured in a sieve?
So, someone has been given information, assumed in confidence, then releases the information to a purchaser. is that right?
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Hi FIn,
You talk tosh. As the identies of the bodies have not been revealed into the public domain and SARC has maintained confidentiality ( as any responsible organisation should) there is no sieve just your stirring. It would be nice if for once you actualy made a usefull comment or do you belong to a group( green, eco warrior?) of people who oppose developements and just muddying the waters?
All the best
Tony
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So no need to sign to any sect. read it in the local rag, as they will give the information to the "rag", before posting it on this forum, where ALL concerned purchasers coyld read.
Agreeing payment over a fixed period maybe, but with inflation as it it, as with cost of living, in 5 years what is the true value of say 60,000 that people parted with 2-3-4 years ago.
OK, so something is better than nothing, but still misery for those who see their money dwindle, whilst maybe a company is allowed to trade on.
I just wonder how many purchasers have/ do not have confidence in a company, to see their money tied up for another 2-3-4-5 years, having experienced what they have.
Haven't seen queues outside Northern Rock, of people wanting to put their many in their hands and that is Government backed.
Will the Spanish Government be underwriting the development if it were to proceed?
Always at least to sides to view. This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 8/13/2008.
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So if there is no sieve, how are you aware of such information (we know from you how the local rag knows).
Are you now one of the Administrators?
Why is it when someone puts their opinion, you respond with words such as "tosh". I can only put it down to lack knowlede and or facts.
Do I belong to a group that oppose developments.
That does show how little you do know and also, if you ead the forum and not just your own thread, you would realise that I DO NOT SUPPORT GROUPS.
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Just so Darren's comments are not pushed to the bottom.
Darren posted the following:
1) San Jose have now received financial backing from a foreign investor
2) El pinet is now the priority to complete in order to release funds from the homeowners that still have 50% of their properties to pay for even though they are now in residence...Habitation Licence etc
3) Orihuela is the next priority although they are currently undertaking foundation work and have been for some time
4) Santa Ana will happen but licences have to be re-validated to complete first stage
5) After the report is finalised, people will be offered on an individual basis what they want to do
a) complete the purchase of their property
b) have monies returned at a percentage loss ( they have no ready cash so cannot pay out)
c) have monies returned 100% but wait the duration it takes for SJG to get back into the black.
6) Albatera will not happen for the immediate future.
Off now...ta-ra (Rob, really nice to meet you over here)
Darren
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FIn,
As you do not support groups you do not understand how organisations work nor how their representatives function.
I have repasted the reply to Darrens posting for balance.
Hi Darren,
Thank you for the comments and input.
1. There are 2 financial groups presently in negotiation and posibly a third.
2/3. Priorities are for the administrators and the management of SJj/HdT to decide and act upon.
4. the licences do not require revalidation only for the funds to be deposited with the town hall ( The Mayor said that).
5. The length of time for the return of funds is defined within the legal frame work and i believe it is as we were told by our Barrister, 5 years over which time instlaments are paid.
6. Albatera is of interest to the foriegn financial organisation.
If you read the report going up on the SARC site it goes into this and there is a piece going into the leader, or is it allready out and have you read it?
All the best
Tony
This message was last edited by TonyMal on 8/13/2008.
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As it was an interview at The Leader offices (which incidentally I can see from my window)
I will cut and paste it so all can see I am only passing on info from "the local rag"
_______________________
Great Auntie Linda
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You rightly say, as I have stated, that I do not support groups> But possibly due to your lack of experience and knowledge in certain matters (i.e.) you obviously do not realise that you do not have to be part of, or support groups, to know how they function.
You may one day realise that protest groups are formed to object against a subject, topic or proposal. They have to address someone and it is often a company.
Do you not realise that such a company is unaware how a protest group acts?
Surely not.
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Hi TonyMal
You state that " there is a piece going into the leader, or is it allready out and have you read it?" Well yes I have read it The piece states quite clearly and I quote
" in the latest development, it has come to light that San Jose are in the process of negotiating a deal to sell 50% of their shares to a Russian company. the annoucement was made by Jose Rodriquez Murcia the president of Inversol and was greated by unease and mistrust by the majority of shareholders present at the meeting"
So please don't try and make out that what myself and my wife(Great Auntie Linda) have read is wrong. Read the article yourself first!
Yours sincerely
Dave Butler ( I dont want my house at Jumilla, I want my money back as I wouldn't trust San Jose as far as I could throw him)
This message was last edited by Laird Dave of Lochaber on 8/13/2008.
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Hi linda
Thanks for the info. much obliged.
First thing i would like to say to the last few posts are pretty obvious to me, the advice about being carefull about mentioning anything about illegal goings on.........................stick that advice where the sun dosnt shine, i for one will say what i believe to be correct and i firmly believe the system in Spain is corrupt and there is a strong possibility the administration could turn out corrupt if the information Tony gives is accurate. Some return advice is don't even try to threaten me about what i can and can't say. it dosnt work on me.
If you have some news about financial backers, but cant tell us about them because its sensitive............then dont say anything about them. That information is no use at all and is the business of the company and the administraton, it dosnt mean anything.
Then again the info about the 'deal' for us all. If a company comes out of administration able to continue a section of its business that can build and prosper, and at the same time place honourable customers on hold indefinately, that are waiting for their money back, after the contractual obligations have not been met, then it is illegal, dis-honourable and corrupt.....plain and simple. That is why that particular section of the proposals are not accurate.
There is no basis to allow a company to come out of administration with a mandate to carry on building and ignore the deposits owed...............in secure accounts (laff laff).with bank guarantees (laff laff laff)..............what kind of idiots do you take people for Tony.
Here is the deal...........the company gets funds and finance to operate as a trading company, honouring its commitments, or it goes into liquidation and gets bought out by someone who can do the job better, or folds up and the assets are sold and divided.
All the bunkem about doing one thing at the expense of another thing...............is simply that...bunkem.
If the administrators come out with the reccs that the company can use my money (and people like me) to prop up a financial package that allows people who want their house to carry on..............the administrators need my (and people like me) solicitors approval..................without it we are straight back to court with a wind up petition.........................If they think that they have people over a barrel because they have already got all their money and people cant afford to go back to court...........think again, i for one cant wait to get started on them if they make mistakes.
If the Spanish authorities think we still live in serfdom where we doff our caps at their decisions and plans, like lords of the manor.......................they can get ready because i (and people like me) dont get bullied easy.
Now that is reality.....................and i will call corruption and bunkem and illegal actions exactly what they are..and when i see them................and when i want to.
Nobody is going to shut me up.......................
All the best and i very very definately want all my money back, with interest and i want you to have your house too. But if anyone thinks one can go on and the other dosnt.......think again and be carefull
Brian
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
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Hi All,
There is a lot flying around and I think when the report gets loaded up there may be a bit more but I reply to some.
Laird Dave.... thanks for the comment. I was not attacking nor berrating Linda. As for the Presidents remark at the share holder meeting, I find it interesting as there is a foreign financial group who are negotiating to purchase 50% of SJ etc. However, the group has accessed the SARC website and we have the site activity report and it confirms the identity of the group that we were told wishes to buy in. The reason I find it intersting is because it is not of Russian origin and I am wondering why the president has said this, it may be an error of speech, which sometimes occur.
The crucial point is that financial bodies are coming forward and SADM is going to be financed, thus enabling the project to go ahead and purchasers to get their properties. Those who no longer wish to proceed can choose to be a creditor and go through the process of getting their money back which we have been told takes several years to complete.
Briando,
on an open forum threats and comments of inappropriate or criminal activity have to be undertaken with caution. I was not attacking you but suggesting that you take more care in you postings. If I wished to make a comment upon the activity of an organisation I would start of withE.G. "I beleive.... " , " I feel...." or "in my opinion.....", thus it is not a fact but a subjective view point, which all are able to express and as such are not viewed as a factual statements that could cause legal problems
Now I respect have respect and the deepest sympathy for purchasers who are in this very unpleasant situation but my prime concern is that of SADM. I know that emotions and feelings are running high and that we can get misunderatndings via postings, which do not convey the tone of voice nor facial expresion but I want to make this very very clear.... I and BrianMags are doing all we can to get a positive outcome and help not only those who have joined SARC but all SADM purchasers. SARC has given us a voice and involved us in meetings that purchasers have not been involved with before and it is the start of our new community. Some of you may no longer wish to be part of SADM but there are lots that do and more purchasers are joining SARC.
All the best to you all
I want my House and I want you all to have the opportunity to have yours too
Tony R17 18
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Hi Linda,
Many thanks for putting the links up, it makes it so much easier. Do you know how do you get to page 5 on the leader? I appear to be having one of those "can not see the nose on my face" moments.
All the best
Tony This message was last edited by TonyMal on 8/13/2008.
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Fin,
Many thanks for your suggestion, I just gave some examples not an exhaustive list.
KR
Tony
This message was last edited by TonyMal on 8/13/2008.This message was last edited by TonyMal on 8/13/2008.
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Hi All here is the full article from the coastrider cant seem to get to page 5 on the leader must be having one of those moments
I Want My House
The crisis that has hit the housing market has had a knock on effect back down the supply chain. With house sales slow there is little cash coming in to keep construction companies going. As a result they have to lay off workers and eventually apply for some type of administration or file for bankruptcy if they cannot get their overdrafts and borrowings financed.
Many developers and builders that find themselves in this position have considerable assets of land but insufficient cash to meet interest payments.
The crisis in the banking sector has meant that banks do not have the wherewithal to keep giving them additional credit. All of this we have seen happening this year but if you are part way through buying a property with one of these companies you can find yourself way down the list of potential creditors when it comes to being paid and possibly having to wait a number of years for a settlement.
This is exactly the situation that a group of would be purchasers found themselves in when two companies of the San José group went into administration earlier this year. A letter was issued by the group in May of this year stating that the two companies concerned, San José Inversiones y Proyectos Urbanísticos S.A. and Herrada del Tollo S.L had applied for voluntary administration.
What this means is that administrators are appointed by the courts to try to determine whether and in what form a company can be saved and continue to trade. In other words it is a method of trying to keep a business going and as San José in their letter said, with the aim of, protecting the assets of San José; protecting the clients’ deposits and to ensure the continuation of ongoing projects.
One of the projects that San José is looking to safeguard is the Santa Ana del Monte project very close to Jumilla in Murcia. Some of the buyers of properties planned in this project have formed an association, the Santa Ana Del Monte Residents’ Cooperative whose mission statement is in brief to achieve the aims of its members whether they be to end up with the house they have purchased, be offered an alternative property elsewhere or get their money back. The situation surrounding the Santa del Monte issues and the residents’ Cooperative is an unusual one because the company genuinely appears to want to involve the buyers in the sometimes difficult and complex procedures it is currently going through in order to satisfy the administrators that it is viable. It still has to get finance to acquire all the necessary licenses and permissions to proceed with the project. Brian Dornan of the Santa Ana Del Monte Residents’ Cooperative (SARC) spoke to CoastRider on a recent visit to Spain and said that he believed it was in everybody’s interest to complete the project and build the houses. The project was important for the town of Jumilla; it was obviously important for the builder and in his view it was the best option for the buyers who otherwise would be way down the list of creditors and might have to wait years for any money. He said it is difficult for those not living in Spain to find out what is happening and one of the main purposes of the website which the Cooperative has set up at www.santaanadelmonte.org is to make sure that all their members get the true story as to what is happening.
He said that the current management of the company are eager to act in a modern, open way and to share all the information they can. The foundations are in place for the first phase of building and all now rests on the builder getting some additional finance, the go-ahead from the courts and the licenses for the next phase. The company had allowed SARC to be present at a series of very detailed meetings on the 8th and 9th July between the company, the Town Hall and the Administrators and this was in return for SARC’s good faith in the company and as a method of ensuring that the full facts of the situation got across to the residents. “Possibly it is the first time that a group has been allowed at such meetings,” said Brian. He added that perhaps it would be a good idea for all builders to involve purchasers at an early stage in the project. He says that he continues to remain positive the project will be completed with the houses built and hopes that SARC’s positive and open attitude will ensure that all its members get the best information as to whether to stay as purchasers or to join the creditors in asking for their money back.
Paul Mutter
brianmags
R4 556
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Hi
Tony.......Its still not really sinking in, but i will try again.
The paragraph where you state the crucial point.....can i point out that people do not choose to become creditors. The reason the company is in administration is because they ran out of money and couldnt deliver their products to customers. This is because of varous reasons but mainly because of the painfully slow and corrupt building system operating in Spain over the last few years (please note how directly that is put).
They dont have the option of coming out of administration witrh a finance package that drags behind it a string of creditors. The creditors are many and are out of contract. The creditors solicitors will simply demand the money from the company...........you cant just shake off creditors and carry on building as though nothing has happened and have such a laisse faire attitude of paying people back as and when they can, sometime, maybe, maybe not. It dosnt work that way, you need to ask some proper questions in your meetings.
As for inviting me to take more care in my postings, any salutations i make which start sentences in a subjective way will only be when i am not sure about facts or when i want to express opinions. The stuff you are coming out with on the basis of your meetings is prior to the administration being completed and has some scenarios that you may be hopefull of, but they are dis-honourable and illegal if the build goes ahead at the expense of the company honouring its comitments to others.
I dont know how to put it simpler for you but its not an opinion of mine, its not something i believe, or might be......its not got any sugar on top its simply illegal and dis-honourable.
I want my money back, my solicitor is instructed to do so, the procurador is funded to represent me in the same way as anyone else. The finance package put together will have to include paying creditors or making arrangements with their solicitors.
Just carrying on building and telling people you may get paid one day, maybe not.......is something out of cloud cuckoo land.....i think the message to SJ would be....no way jose.
When you get off the plane with a peice of white paper saying peace in our time, everyones a winner, send it to me in an e mail providing it has the official stamp of the administrator.
Brian
Brian
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
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Hi Brian
I didnt get the article up either in the local rag.
Can i just re-introduce us to the concept of administration for a minute please.
The way the administration is portrayed lately and the way the article finishes is a little misleading and i could do with having a short reminder for anyone who misunderstands it or the boat we are all in.
When the company goes into administration....even into the concurso type, everyone who has paid for goods or services, or has provided goods or services on credit.....becomes a creditor. During the administration process everyone is a creditor...hold that thought please.
The words of the local rag article and the words of Tony seem to suggest you can either have your house built or become a creditor.......Tony is a creditor, Brian is a creditor, the members of SARC are creditors...i am a creditor......what is this choice you are making to become a creditor?
If the company gets finance to build and progress......you are still a creditor until you receive your goods or services (house) and you are still a creditor until you get your money back.
Anyone who thinks the creditors wanting to be re-paid, with a legitimate reason like having contracts broken, will have somehow a lower creditor rating than the ones wanting houses built is barking at the moon.
Anyone who thinks a building site will take preference over another just to suit the customer is also barking at the moon.......think about it, if the administrator said yes we have re-packaged and re-financed and you will get your house in santanna in 2018, the other sites will take preference and the first call will go to new customers, existing customers will have to wait untill SJ clear funds from new customers to pay for your site to be finished.
What would you say?
Exactly........we are all creditors and we all have to be satisfied............otherwise its illegal and dis-honourable...simple as that.
Brian
_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
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