I want my house

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Residencial Santa Ana del Monte forum threads
The Comments
05 Dec 2008 2:47 PM by TonyMal Star rating in Oxfordshire. 1090 forum posts Send private message

Hi All,

Despite all of the silly remarks made by a very small group of  people on the forum I still want my house and so do many many more purchasers. Only yesterday yet another purchasers joined SARC and the numbers continue to grow and this infuriates those who do not support nor wish SADM to go ahead. I know that the only way to protect my money is to get the develpment under way and get my property.   The report will avialable for us all to see soon we will all be able to reflect on what we want and the probable outcome of this awfull mess

  I WANT MY HOUSE

Tony R17 18




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05 Dec 2008 2:52 PM by FriendinNeed Star rating. 789 forum posts Send private message

"Despite all of the silly remarks made by a very small group of  people on the forum I still want my house"

Why would someon making silly remarks change ones mind on wanting a house?

"Only yesterday yet another purchasers joined SARC and the numbers continue to grow "

Congrats., that's the big 40 then.




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05 Dec 2008 5:56 PM by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 1982 forum posts Send private message

HI

Im not infuriated by anyone joining SARC..in fact i have asked lots of times what joining sarc means.........is it a membership or a declaration or something.

Is there a joining fee or a ritual maybe..............if anyone wants to join sarc thats fine by me............i just dont think they should expect  too much.....or expect any guarantees or it to be as positive as it first looks. 

I would be a bit nervous about using the sarc solicitor after the last translation Tony got as well

Hope that clears it up from my angle



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Best wishes, Brian

 



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07 Dec 2008 11:19 PM by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 1982 forum posts Send private message

There is an excellent article reproduced by Redman under the thread of Spain in the Dock.

I urge anyone caught up in this who is seriously considering carrying on with a purchase......to read it and digest it.

Then think about the implications of carrying on with 'i want my house' without any reforms or choices.

Thanks to Redman



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Best wishes, Brian

 



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08 Dec 2008 7:57 AM by brianmags Star rating in London. 380 forum posts Send private message

Hi Guys,

          I haven't posted for a while but Briandos comments about  "Then think about the implications of carrying on with 'i want my house' without any reforms or choices"

                Before any reforms or choices can be even discussed  the company has to have signed agreements for funding once that is in place then we can start on about any reforms or choices.  

Also I feel that with all the discussions on the form about litigation and such is just a smoke screen to confuse people and to say that they can get special status is actully an untruth according to my barristar those that wish to waste money on litigation or are being advised to do so are throwing their money away in this instance. any one who has employed a Barristar should be aware that there are set fees for handling a case in concurso and now extra funds are require to go for your deposit once the judge asks you/your barristar what you whish to do 1. go on with the Build or 2. get your money back.

                     Why pay out more money than is neccessary I dont see that logic in that   No one has or will get special status in this case if it was that easy then we all would have applied for it.

 

brianmags r4 556

I want my house

 


 



This message was last edited by brianmags on 12/8/2008.


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08 Dec 2008 11:23 AM by FriendinNeed Star rating. 789 forum posts Send private message

Many with another developer in Spain wanted their houses too. But look what the developer got up to.
http://tinyurl.com/5sobpq


 



This message was last edited by FriendinNeed on 12/8/2008.


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08 Dec 2008 12:13 PM by brianmags Star rating in London. 380 forum posts Send private message

Thanks Fin,

                       will view from home cant do so now.

      but there is also this point not everything or everyone is crooked in Spain just as in the UK there are both good and bad  and it is wrong to tar everyone the same

regards Brianmags

R4 556

Iwant my House




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08 Dec 2008 12:48 PM by HAWKINGS111 Star rating in Las Filipinas. Spain.... 290 forum posts Send private message

HAWKINGS111´s avatar

Brianmags.

I agree with you entirely.

Friendinneed.

Have put that web address you gave in google and there are no results??

                 Bob.



_______________________

      Now  Retired and have our money back in FULL via our bank guarantee.    Bob and Pauline.



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08 Dec 2008 1:09 PM by alamred Star rating. 242 forum posts Send private message

here is article

 

Martins noted revaluation of land of up to 19,000%

La empresa cerró 2007 con beneficios gracias a esas anotaciones contables - Los administradores demandarán a la banca por las garantías que impuso The company ended 2007 with profits thanks to these records - Administrators sue the bank for guarantees that imposed

M. M. JIMÉNEZ / J. JIMENEZ / J. RODRÍGUEZ - Madrid / A Coruña - 08/12/2008 RODRIGUEZ - Madrid / New York City - 08/12/2008

Vota Vote
 
Resultado Result Sin interésPoco interesanteDe interésMuy interesanteImprescindible 137 votos 137 votes

Un terreno en Guanarteme (Las Palmas) que en las cuentas de Fadesa valía un millón de euros pasó por obra y gracia de un apunte contable a valer 170 millones en las de Martinsa-Fadesa. One area in Guanarteme (Las Palmas) in accounts Fadesa worth one million euros went through work and grace of a record 170 million worth of accounts to those of Martins-Fadesa. Otro solar de Culleredo (A Coruña) de millón y medio de euros pasó de un día para otro a figurar en la contabilidad de Martinsa por 84 millones. Another solar Culleredo (A Coruña) of one and a half million euros went from one day to appear on the accounts of Martins by 84 million. Una finca de Puerto Real (Cádiz) pasó de valer 336.000 euros a 65 millones, con una revalorización de más del 19.000%. A farm in Puerto Real (Cadiz) rose from 336,000 euros worth of 65 million, with a revaluation of more than 19,000%. El informe de los administradores concursales de Martinsa revela algunos de los apuntes contables que permitieron a la empresa decir que había cerrado 2007 con beneficios pese a su precaria situación financiera. The report of the directors of bankruptcy Martins reveals some of the entries in the accounts that allowed the company said that it had closed 2007 with profits despite its precarious financial situation.

La nueva tasación rebaja un 32% el valor real de los activos The new valuation discount 32% of the real value of assets

Pero además, según este documento, los administradores interpondrán una demanda "con carácter inmediato" para rescindir todas las garantías que pidieron las entidades financieras que participaron en la refinanciación de la deuda de Martinsa para asegurarse el cobro de otro compromiso anterior. But in addition, according to this document, a interpose administrators demand "without delay" to terminate all the guarantees demanded that the financial institutions that participated in the refinancing of the debt of Martins to ensure the recovery of another previous commitment. Algunas entidades ya renunciaron a estas garantías cuando Martinsa solicitó el concurso. Some entities already resigned to these guarantees when Martins asked the contest. Además, los administradores valorarán si la refinanciación del crédito de 4.000 millones de Martinsa agravó la situación. In addition, managers will value if the refinancing of the loan of 4,000 million Martins aggravated the situation. Quieren esclarecer si "la información de la que disponían los miembros del sindicato de bancos era suficiente para conocer que con dicha refinanciación tampoco se evitaría el concurso". They want to clarify whether "the information available to members of the syndicate of banks was sufficient to know that such refinancing will not avoid the contest." En el crédito estaban más de 40 entidades. The provision was more than 40 entities. Entre ellas, La Caixa, Caja Madrid, Ahorro Corporación y Banco Popular, entre otros. Among them, La Caixa, Caja Madrid and Banco Popular Savings Corporation, among others.

Abogados y economistas vienen alertando de la posibilidad de que un juez, a petición de los administradores, pueda anular operaciones que considere perjudiciales para los acreedores dentro del periodo de dos años anteriores a la fecha de la declaración del concurso, tal y como contempla el artículo 71 de la Ley Concursal. Lawyers and economists are warning of the possibility that a judge at the request of administrators, may cancel operations it considers detrimental to creditors within the period of two years preceding the date of the declaration of the competition, as contemplated by Article 71 of the Bankruptcy Act. Lo hacen porque opinan que algunas condiciones y garantías que imponen los bancos (las más comunes, hipotecar más activos o desinvertir) pueden ser perjudiciales para "la masa" de acreedores, pero también porque temen que los administradores pidan que se anulen daciones en pago (entregar activos a los bancos a cambio de cancelar créditos) o hasta la compra de otra empresa. They do so because they believe that certain conditions and safeguards imposed by banks (the most common mortgage divest assets or more) can be detrimental to "mass" of creditors, but also because they fear that managers will be asked to nullify payment in kind ( deliver assets to the banks in exchange for canceling credits) or until the purchase of another company.

Pero las pesquisas de los administradores revelan, además, que el valor de las existencias (básicamente suelo) de Martinsa-Fadesa estaba inflado, según las nuevas valoraciones encargadas a tres firmas de tasación. But the investigation of managers reveal further that the value of stocks (essentially ground) from Martins-Fadesa was inflated, according to new assessments to three firms responsible for taxation. Eso va a obligar a la empresa presidida por Fernando Martín a reformular las cuentas que comunicó a la Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores (CNMV). That will require the company chaired by Fernando Martin to rewrite the accounts that informed the Commission Nacional del Mercado de Valores (CNMV). El informe concursal valora los activos de la firma en 7.336,9 millones, un 32% menos que lo que consideró CB Richard Ellis. The report valued the assets in bankruptcy of Signature 7336.9 million, 32% less than what it deemed CB Richard Ellis.

Martinsa-Fadesa no actuó sola. Martins-Fadesa did not act alone. Las revalorizaciones contables de vértigo se basaron en un informe de Tasamadrid, filial al 100% de Caja Madrid, el principal acreedor de la inmobiliaria, si bien el informe de dicha tasadora contenía mucha letra pequeña que relativizaba el alcance de su tasación, sujeta a hipótesis de incierto cumplimiento facilitadas por la propia compañía. The accounting revaluations of vertigo were based on a report of Tasamadrid, 100% subsidiary of Caja Madrid, the main creditor of the estate, while the report contained much of the valuer small print that the scope of its relative valuation, subject to assumptions Uncertain of compliance provided by the company itself.

El auditor, Ernst & Young, también dio por buenas esas revalorizaciones contables, de modo que Martinsa-Fadesa, protagonista del mayor concurso de acreedores de la historia empresarial española con un pasivo de unos 7.200 millones de euros, fue una de las pocas inmobiliarias cotizadas que logró un informe de auditoría limpio en 2007. The auditor, Ernst & Young, also gave good these revaluations by accountants, so Martins-Fadesa, the protagonist of the largest creditors of the Spanish business history with a liability of about 7200 million euros, was one of the few listed real estate who achieved a clean audit report in 2007.

La contabilización de la fusión de Martinsa y Fadesa atribuyó tal valor a los inmuebles adquiridos a la empresa coruñesa que permitió revalorizarlos contablemente en 4.617 millones. Accounting for the merger of Martins and Fadesa value attributed to such buildings acquired the company that allowed CORUNESA value to account for millions in 4617. Eso convertía la compra de Fadesa -cuyo 86,5% costó 3.512 millones en marzo de 2007- en una ganga, hasta el punto de que la empresa se apuntó 416 millones como beneficio por la diferencia entre la cantidad pagada y el supuesto valor real de los activos. That became the purchase of Fadesa, whose 86.5% cost 3512 million in March 2007 - at a bargain, to the point where the company said 416 million as profit on the difference between the amount paid and the real value of course the assets.

Y la cosa pudo ser peor. And things could be worse. Otra valoración alternativa de CB Richard Ellis -que, según fuentes del mercado, no fue admitida por la CNMV- hubiera supuesto, de haberse utilizado, un ingreso por revalorización de activos de 1.900 millones en lugar de los 416. Another alternative valuation of CB Richard Ellis, who, according to market sources, was not accepted by the CNMV, would have, had it been used, income from revaluation of assets of 1,900 million instead of 416. Martinsa sostiene que encargó la valoración de Tasamadrid "por prudencia". Martins maintains that commissioned the valuation of Tasamadrid "prudence".

Ahora, las nuevas valoraciones efectuadas por encargo de los administradores judiciales del concurso de acreedores rebajan bruscamente el valor de los activos de la empresa. Now, new assessments made on behalf of the administrators of the composition sharply lower the value of the assets of the company. En el epígrafe de existencias, en lugar de los 5.912,8 millones que figuraban en las cuentas de la empresa a 30 de septiembre pasado, los administradores valoran ese inventario en 4.654,6 millones. Under the heading of stock, instead of 5912.8 billion contained in the company's accounts to September 30 last, administrators that inventory valued at 4654.6 million. La diferencia se debe casi en exclusiva a "las minusvalías tácitas de acuerdo con las tasaciones recibidas de los terceros independientes y que ascienden a 1.255 millones de euros", según el informe de la administración judicial. The difference is due almost exclusively to "disability tacit agreement with the valuations received from independent third parties and amounting to 1255 million euros," according to the report of the judicial administration.

Los administradores también advierten que "el saldo del epígrafe de existencias del ejercicio 2007 incluía como costes capitalizados costes comerciales por importe de 57.291 miles de euros, gastos no capitalizables según el Plan General de Contabilidad", pese a lo cual Ernst & Young no puso ninguna objeción. Managers also warn that "the balance of the stock for the year 2007 included costs capitalized as business costs amounting to 57,291 thousand euros, expenses not capitalized under General Accounting Plan", despite which Ernst & Young did not put any objection.




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08 Dec 2008 1:20 PM by FriendinNeed Star rating. 789 forum posts Send private message

1) "but there is also this point not everything or everyone is crooked in Spain just as in the UK there are both good and bad  and it is wrong to tar everyone the same" - Sorry, where have I ever said that?
I repeatedly stated that many instances UK companies and individuals are no better than the iffy Spanish we read of. Please read properly. Never have I state all.
Here, I merely gave a link to a fact. Something that many do not like.

2) No good Googling a tinyurl address, just paste http://tinyurl.com/5sobpq in the address heading or click on it here. Simple.




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08 Dec 2008 3:17 PM by brianmags Star rating in London. 380 forum posts Send private message

Hi Fin,

        I wasn't having a go at you at all just reminding everyone not to jump hasty conclusions thats all

Brianmags R4 556

I want my house




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08 Dec 2008 3:48 PM by HAWKINGS111 Star rating in Las Filipinas. Spain.... 290 forum posts Send private message

HAWKINGS111´s avatar

Friendinneed.

Thanks.  Bob.



_______________________

      Now  Retired and have our money back in FULL via our bank guarantee.    Bob and Pauline.



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08 Dec 2008 4:27 PM by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 1982 forum posts Send private message

Hi Brian and all

The crux of my point is not who is crooked or not, its the system that allows it, or even promotes it, its systemic.

So the idea of concentrating on one company being re-financed misses the point i was making from the article......dont give anyone any money to play the same slot machine, change the slot machine.

Until thats addressed through the pressure mentioned in the article, its chasing fools gold......pyramid selling, call it what you want.........in fact if a russian investor comes along it may be russian roullette !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Change the system......up the revolution brother.......



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 



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08 Dec 2008 5:55 PM by FriendinNeed Star rating. 789 forum posts Send private message

So as it is fact, what conclusions do you believe that people should draw, "hasty" or not?

Regardin changing the system, or upping the revolution.

Thank goodnes we all have a choice and are not forced to buy a property in Spain, Iraq, Syberia, etc.
Probably just proof of how spoiled we are living in UK. There again, there are those who complain about that.




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08 Dec 2008 6:06 PM by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 1982 forum posts Send private message

Yes i get your point FIN

I for one am happy to buy goods, services and property here in the UK, we sometimes are looked on as over-regulated but when anything is sytemicaly poor..........it tends to get addressed and changed.

The Spanish system seems to want a good kicking to get itself brought into a modern world, for me anyway.  Its unfair, its slow, it has no proper respect for its customers..........why would i want to carry on as it is?

Conclusions and Choices????

Well these are wrapped up in where we are now....for the depositors........choice is to either go in deeper and hope the builder carries on..............dangerous to my mind.

Or to get the builder wrapped up and see what money they have got.........and trust a system that shares it out properly.........again dangerous but at least its heading towards a conclusion and some justice....

I for one would like the revolution brother........and one day maybe a fair and trustworthy system to purchase a house



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 



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08 Dec 2008 7:09 PM by FriendinNeed Star rating. 789 forum posts Send private message

Perhaps us Brits should invade all Countries that don't have our laws, our regulations, our beliefs and force the inhabitants of those Countries to accept our beliefs, laws, regulations, etc., as we Brits are perfect in every way and it is about time that ALL other Countires realised such and changed.
Didn't Mr Hitler believ that and try it?
Do we really want all Countries, all nationalities to be the same. Next there will be someone saying that all should wear the same clothes.
Silly me, what Country does that remind you of.
The laws of Spain may have annoyed, angered, upset, robbed, many Brits in their attempt for the dream (or a quick buck) in the sun.
But, it is the Country belonging to the Spanish, with their laws and regulations. Accept it.
What happens when they come over here and demand bull-fighting, smoking in bars (under a certain floor area), will we change the laws for them?




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08 Dec 2008 7:16 PM by jaqib Star rating. 81 forum posts Send private message

WHAT LAWS AND WHAT REGULATIONS???

HAVE I MISSED SOMETHING, DID SOMEONE PLAY BALL!!!



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stu and jaq R4 428 I DON'T THINK SO!!!!


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08 Dec 2008 7:18 PM by FriendinNeed Star rating. 789 forum posts Send private message

08 Dec 2008 7:53 PM by jaqib Star rating. 81 forum posts Send private message

Obviously after 372 posts you seem to have missed something!!

Wise old man he say ' if you're not going to talk sense, don't talk at all!!



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stu and jaq R4 428 I DON'T THINK SO!!!!


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08 Dec 2008 7:57 PM by jaqib Star rating. 81 forum posts Send private message

Sorry all, couldn't take anymore, had to reply.



_______________________
stu and jaq R4 428 I DON'T THINK SO!!!!


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