BREXIT

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29 Aug 2016 9:28 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

And there it goes again!  Hate crimes have always been around. It's just people jumping on the bandwagon.  Nothing to do with Brexit.   Would have happened anyway.

And as for the Durham Law school guy - well, I would simply say that part of the desire to remain and keep the status quo was a recognition of the difficulty there would be in unpicking everything.   Most laws will never be unpicked whether we leave or not.

And just out of interest - which stupid laws are you thinking about?   I am always interested in which stupid laws people have in mind - most of them turn out not to have anything to do with the EU.

Yes hate crimes have alway been around, Roly2, maybe you never had your eyes open to see them, these are not new and they have not increased since Brexit.

The UK has had to put up with thousands of stupid laws that came from the EU, again I say, something that anyone who hasn't lived in the UK for any amount of years wouldn't know to much about, thankfully even though the UK tries to uphold them the sensible one's here don't take much notice of them.

The EU dictated to the UK what they should change, and implement, and the UK did so, but anyone who didn't want the UK to leave would never admit to any of this.

Most of the folk who did not want the UK to leave the EU and called all the leavers idiots, and short sighted, did so because of what they thought might happen to them, like the drop in the Euro rate for one which has affected all those in Spain who transfer money across from the UK, none of these people cared one jot about the UK and its people. 

 





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29 Aug 2016 10:11 PM by tteedd Star rating in Hertfordshire & Punt.... 990 posts Send private message

mmm - no porkies yet?

Look back on the thread if you want bad and stupid EU laws. But should you want some costly EU laws try these (there are  more like them):

The Alternative Investment Fund Managers Regulations 2013, which are calculated to cost the UK economy £1.5billion a year without giving us a penny in return

The Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 2004, which costs industry £41million a year with no measurable financial benefit whatsoever.

Working Time Directive, which costs £4.1billion a year.

 Measures on energy and climate change, which cost us £3.4billion and is the main reason that Tata has stopped making steel in the UK with the resultant loss in jobs.

The Temporary Agency Workers' Directive, which gives full employment rights to temporary workers and which is costing the economy £2billion a year.



 

 





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29 Aug 2016 11:15 PM by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

And who was it who persuaded ,most of Europe to drive diesel cars?

Would that be the EU by any chance?





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30 Aug 2016 12:08 AM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1220 posts Send private message

And who was it who persuaded ,most of Europe to drive diesel cars?

Would that be the EU by any chance?

No, it wouldn't be the EU by any chance. It was the Kyoto agreement in 1997 (under UN, not EU) that acted on false information. The EU simply said they would abide by it. It was Blair's government that introduced incentives under Brown as chancellor that complied with UN (not EU) stipulations.

Still, getting rabid about leaving means that many things will get twisted. Forgetting the protection of bank account holders to have their savings protected, forgetting the open skies agreement, forgetting the workers rights to holiday periods and so on and on. 

Maybe it is time to close this thread until something actually bloody happens.

 

 

 





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30 Aug 2016 1:31 AM by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

From the Guardian 

Just goes to show that the so called experts are not always correct, so it may be good to question their advice and that big businesses do have an important influence over politicians who can be led by self interest.

Thank god, once again that the Great British Public have taken back at least a level of control and we will not be preached to by the EU and its unelected Commissioners like good old NEIL, who voted him in?

..........................................

Volkswagen’s rigging of emissions tests for diesel cars comes after nearly 20 years of the technology being incentivised in Europe in the knowledge that its adoption would reduce global warming emissions but lead to thousands of extra deaths from increased levels of toxic gases.

Diesel was a niche market in Europe until the mid-1990s, making up less than 10% of the car fleet. Diesels produce 15% less CO2 than petrol, but emit four times more nitrogen dioxide pollution (NO2) and 22 times more particulates - the tiny particles that penetrate the lungs, brain and heart.

Following the signing of the Kyoto protocol climate change agreement in 1997, most rich countries were legally obliged to reduce CO2 emissions by an average of 8% over 15 years. 

Japanese and American car makers backed research into hybrid and electric cars, but the European commission was lobbied strongly by big German car makers BMW, Volkswagen and Daimler, to incentivise diesel. A switch to diesel was said by the industry to be a cheap and fast way to reduce the carbon emissions that drive climate change.

Volkswagen’s rigging of emissions tests for diesel cars comes after nearly 20 years of the technology being incentivised in Europe in the knowledge that its adoption would reduce global warming emissions but lead to thousands of extra deaths from increased levels of toxic gases.

Diesel was a niche market in Europe until the mid-1990s, making up less than 10% of the car fleet. Diesels produce 15% less CO2 than petrol, but emit four times more nitrogen dioxide pollution (NO2) and 22 times more particulates - the tiny particles that penetrate the lungs, brain and heart.

Following the signing of the Kyoto protocol climate change agreement in 1997, most rich countries were legally obliged to reduce CO2 emissions by an average of 8% over 15 years. 

Japanese and American car makers backed research into hybrid and electric cars, but the European commission was lobbied strongly by big German car makers BMW, Volkswagen and Daimler, to incentivise diesel. A switch to diesel was said by the industry to be a cheap and fast way to reduce the carbon emissions that drive climate change.

 

The subsequent EC 1998 Acea agreement with all European car makers was backed by then EU transport commissioner Neil Kinnock and UK environment secretary John Prescott. It committed passenger car-makers to reduce CO2 emissions by 25% over 10 years.

“It was practically an order to switch to diesel. The European car fleet was transformed from being almost entirely petrol to predominantly diesel. Britain, along with Germany, France and Italy, offered subsidies and sweeteners to persuade car makers and the public to buy diesel,” said Simon Birkett, director of the Clean Air London group.

Volkswagen’s rigging of emissions tests for diesel cars comes after nearly 20 years of the technology being incentivised in Europe in the knowledge that its adoption would reduce global warming emissions but lead to thousands of extra deaths from increased levels of toxic gases.

Diesel was a niche market in Europe until the mid-1990s, making up less than 10% of the car fleet. Diesels produce 15% less CO2 than petrol, but emit four times more nitrogen dioxide pollution (NO2) and 22 times more particulates - the tiny particles that penetrate the lungs, brain and heart.

Following the signing of the Kyoto protocol climate change agreement in 1997, most rich countries were legally obliged to reduce CO2 emissions by an average of 8% over 15 years. 

Japanese and American car makers backed research into hybrid and electric cars, but the European commission was lobbied strongly by big German car makers BMW, Volkswagen and Daimler, to incentivise diesel. A switch to diesel was said by the industry to be a cheap and fast way to reduce the carbon emissions that drive climate change.

The subsequent EC 1998 Acea agreement with all European car makers was backed by then EU transport commissioner Neil Kinnock and UK environment secretary John Prescott. It committed passenger car-makers to reduce CO2 emissions by 25% over 10 years.

“It was practically an order to switch to diesel. The European car fleet was transformed from being almost entirely petrol to predominantly diesel. Britain, along with Germany, France and Italy, offered subsidies and sweeteners to persuade car makers and the public to buy diesel,” said Simon Birkett, director of the Clean Air London group

The European auto industry ramped up diesel engine production. Under EU pressure, governments kept the diesel price below that of petrol. In the UK, the amount motorists paid in vehicle excise duty was linked to cars’ CO2 emissions, effectively incentivising people to buy diesels.

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“Diesel cars should attract less vehicle tax than their petrol equivalents because of their better CO2 performance,” said then chancellor Gordon Brown in 1998.

The results were dramatic, says the Society of motor manufacturers and traders (SMMT). From being a quirky choice, diesel went mainstream in Europe. Its market share in the UK rose from under 10% in 1995 to over 50% in 2012. Britain now has 11.8m diesel cars in use, making up one of the greatest diesel car fleets in the world.

But the trade-off between reducing climate emissions and increasing health problems was not widely debated, say civil servants and politicians. In addition, they say, carmakers found it easy to cheat the system. 

“Diesel was seen as a good thing because it produces less CO2, so we gave people incentives to buy diesel cars,” said Martin Williams, professor of air quality research at King’s College London since 2010, and former head of the government’s air quality science unit. 

“The [emission] tests were simply not stringent enough. They were devised by a UN committee based in Geneva called the World Forum for Harmonisation of Vehicle Regulations, which was dominated by people from the car industry. 

“What’s more, it was easy for some manufacturers to calibrate cars’ computers to spot when the car was being tested and reduce emissions until the test was over,” he told the Sunday Times in July.





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30 Aug 2016 9:19 AM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1220 posts Send private message

Has this now turned into an obsession?

 





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30 Aug 2016 9:27 AM by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 646 posts Send private message

Well, those might be rules/laws you did not agree with but they do not fall into the category of stupid laws which persuaded people to vote out.   Like the Boris banana debacle.    Most of the woes the Brits put at the door of the EU have nothing to do with the EU - they are the UKs own stupid decisions.   

And of course hate crimes have always been there - but where is your evidence (against all official voices) that it has not increased?  You can't just go around saying things without any evidence..........oh wait - yes you can.   And it has enormous consequences.  





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30 Aug 2016 9:33 AM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

baz wrote.

On a small point just where do you get your correct information from then?  That is not biased, lies, made up, guess's.....And so on.

Certainly not from The Daily Mail or any other 'entertainment' comics.

I choose a wide variety of sources that have proved trustworthy in the past. I read in depth, politics philosophy and economics. I have a degree in Social Science. I listen to bbc radio broadcasts that are balanced and fair. I have business apps that send real time information and have the advantage of reading and speaking languages so my sources are not biased towards any English media perspective.

Someone once said that the difference between a tourist and a traveller is, one reads his own countries newspapers the other reads those of the country they are in…

Everyone has a particular valid point of view on Brexit. Their views are valid because they are human and are entitled to them, even the worst of the posters on here. I don’t rubbish views with abusive words when that view is diametrically opposed to my own values. I read them and ask why on earth have they arrived at that conclusion? I then work out in my own mind why that may be so. Them I’m content.

We are all products of our environments. Like it or not unfortunately or not there is no escape from that. If you have spent all your time in only one particular value system without exposure to alternative ideas then it’s unlikely you views will encompass any wider opinion.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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30 Aug 2016 10:18 AM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

baz wrote.

On a small point just where do you get your correct information from then?  That is not biased, lies, made up, guess's.....And so on.

Certainly not from The Daily Mail or any other 'entertainment' comics.

I choose a wide variety of sources that have proved trustworthy in the past. I read in depth, politics philosophy and economics. I have a degree in Social Science. I listen to bbc radio broadcasts that are balanced and fair. I have business apps that send real time information and have the advantage of reading and speaking languages so my sources are not biased towards any English media perspective.

Someone once said that the difference between a tourist and a traveller is, one reads his own countries newspapers the other reads those of the country they are in…

Everyone has a particular valid point of view on Brexit. Their views are valid because they are human and are entitled to them, even the worst of the posters on here. I don’t rubbish views with abusive words when that view is diametrically opposed to my own values. I read them and ask why on earth have they arrived at that conclusion? I then work out in my own mind why that may be so. Them I’m content.

We are all products of our environments. Like it or not unfortunately or not there is no escape from that. If you have spent all your time in only one particular value system without exposure to alternative ideas then it’s unlikely you views will encompass any wider opinion.

Well Micky with the greatest respect if you read all the above like you say you do, then I for one would never have reported that the EURO is showing it's value because the low Airport Exchange said so.....

......is this what you mean by 'Trustworthy Sources'....Because thats very confusing.

If you certainly don't read the Daily Mail how did you manage to know the article I posted was from the Daily Mail?

 





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30 Aug 2016 10:26 AM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

Hi baz here's a clue.wink

Professor Brooks, who advised the Electoral Commission on the wording of the referendum question, told MailOnline: ‘I do not think Article 50 will be invoked.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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30 Aug 2016 11:18 AM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

Hi baz here's a clue.wink

Professor Brooks, who advised the Electoral Commission on the wording of the referendum question, told MailOnline: ‘I do not think Article 50 will be invoked.

Well unless you know this Brooks guy you had to read the Mailonline...Like I did...Point proven.

And the other bit about your post on the Euro rate and Airport Exchange Rates? Not going to answer that then?

Come on now Micky admit it, you know no more then any other person on whats going to happen.

 





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30 Aug 2016 11:27 AM by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 646 posts Send private message

OK - I am lost - which point is proven?





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30 Aug 2016 12:13 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

Roly2

30 Aug 2016 11:27
OK - I am lost - which point is proven?

baz wrote....Back to Micky.

On a small point just where do you get your correct information from then?  That is not biased, lies, made up, guess's.....And so on......

I asked the above question because Micky made mention that pretty much all the papers that many people read tell lies etc etc, and his answer back to me was.......

Certainly not from The Daily Mail or any other 'entertainment' comics.

Then Micky answered back with the below....

Hi baz here's a clue.wink

Professor Brooks, who advised the Electoral Commission on the wording of the referendum question, told MailOnline: ‘I do not think Article 50 will be invoked.

Which in my book kinda proves that he reads, or has read, the Daily Mail to know of the article, ( Or maybe not ) and all of this from someone who, if you read his post from the 30th August 9.33am you will see how he has tried to impress me with his knowledge?

Yet believes, and understands, that the Airport Money Exchange has the correct information on how the Euro Rate trend is going.

 

 





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30 Aug 2016 12:29 PM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1220 posts Send private message

Yet you'll see conflicting articles in the same newspaper about the way it is going. To quote a perennial expat preferred paper (The Mail, probably because it's cheap(er) here) then investment is up but another article says investment is being taken away. The Telegraph had one bit in the business section over the weekend about the pound rallying to 1.18 in the next week but, on the very same day, it stated the pound will drop to 1.13 fairly soon and stay there. One of the papers said building firms were doing very well and orders were up (turns out this was for commercial builds) yet says in another article that building firms were losing order and would be unable to complete building targets due to rising prices and low confidence.

Maybe best not to read any of the papers.

 





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30 Aug 2016 12:33 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

And of course hate crimes have always been there - but where is your evidence (against all official voices) that it has not increased?  You can't just go around saying things without any evidence..........oh wait - yes you can.   And it has enormous consequences.  

Don't think I said hate crimes haven't increased...Did I?

And as for Official Voices which can only be understood to be from statistics and the like, I didn't think these were to be believed, because when a person that voted out talks about Statistics they get told they are not to be believed.

 





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30 Aug 2016 12:35 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

Oh for goodness sake baz I read your post on here nothing else. The airport exchange rate piece was either on the radio or an app I read. .  



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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30 Aug 2016 12:38 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

Yet you'll see conflicting articles in the same newspaper about the way it is going. To quote a perennial expat preferred paper (The Mail, probably because it's cheap(er) here) then investment is up but another article says investment is being taken away. The Telegraph had one bit in the business section over the weekend about the pound rallying to 1.18 in the next week but, on the very same day, it stated the pound will drop to 1.13 fairly soon and stay there. One of the papers said building firms were doing very well and orders were up (turns out this was for commercial builds) yet says in another article that building firms were losing order and would be unable to complete building targets due to rising prices and low confidence.

Maybe best not to read any of the papers.

Yes mariedav, You are correct in every word you say, I don't buy or read the papers, any of them, I only glance across the Mail on line for one reason only.





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30 Aug 2016 1:02 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

Oh for goodness sake baz I read your post on here nothing else. The airport exchange rate piece was either on the radio or an app I read. .  

Thank you Micky for being honest about something you really didn't know was true or not, throws a different light on your future posts about what you know on the Brexit, maybe.





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30 Aug 2016 1:10 PM by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 646 posts Send private message

Uh..... yes you did Baz:

 

Yes hate crimes have alway been around, Roly2, maybe you never had your eyes open to see them, these are not new and they have not increased since Brexit.    





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30 Aug 2016 1:34 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2327 posts Send private message

Uh..... yes you did Baz:

 

Yes hate crimes have alway been around, Roly2, maybe you never had your eyes open to see them, these are not new and they have not increased since Brexit.   

My apologies to you Roly2,  you are correct I did say that.

Maybe what I should have said was they haven't risen any more since Brexit then all other times before Brexit...But I didn't.

 


This message was last edited by baz1946 on 30/08/2016.



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