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I personally find the whole aspect of separation of the United Kingdom in this manner sad, as there are many on an emotional level who perceive our country as one large "family of people" with long lasting traditions yes, but common values, a civilised way of life in the main, with laws and regulatory structures in place that have taken hundreds of years to develop and adjust to changing circumstances.
But on a more practical level, a United Kingdom in transition via devolution of Parliament's, endeavouring to better address the fairer distribution of common shared resources across our "family" nation.
Some may argue rightly that this has been well overdue, with a north/ south divide born from an unfair distribution of finances, but that is no reason to separate our family of people, moreover it is all the more reason to recognise that we are better off working together as one family and resolving the financial disparities in a fair and civilised manner.
The comparison to Europe is far more complex, however, given each member state at this moment in time has its vastly different evolutionary stages of development, values, and regulatory structures ( or lack of  !), each with its own widely differing governmental structures, and economic and social priorities at this moment in time.
But more importantly, each with a need to manage effectively its own financial wellbeing, currently struggling under the existing eurozone system which denies member states the ability to adequately react to financial crises, given their differing levels of debt, their state structures and commitments, their regulatory Banking structures, etc.. , the "pure but complex economics" if you will.
And this appears where there is great misunderstanding of how these complexities play their essential part in the effective wellbeing of CITIZENS within the various European member states.
An educative article may go a little way to explain these complexities and what has " gone wrong" with the current eurozone system, which we should all not be afraid to recognise or analyse in a fair and rational manner, if we are ever to resolve how best to move forward to resolve the complex issues in an orderly and civilised manner, so as to achieve mutually beneficial outcomes following the democratic decision of the UK to leave the European Union ( not abandoning Europe ).
http://neweconomics.org/2017/01/what-next-for-the-euro/
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ads
Nice post
However, why should a family be limited to those who are diffenrnet or those who think they are better or those who a have few quid more etc.
We should be striving to bring equality for all and fixing the probelms within the EU together
The EU has its faults as does the UK, as many other nations do, but walking away is not the answer and the rifts caused internally in the UK and what will be left in EU wil take a lot longer to heal
The UK might want to carry on and not abandon europe but many in the EU may well be saying well up yours UK and abandon the UK in every aspect they can no matter the impact.
Like many divorces one party is often seen to be the culprit and one the victim. IMO the UK are the culprit and the EU are the victims (some may say vice versa) and it will take a long time to repair these rifts and resentments on many levels
As for Scotalnd, many may see an independant Scotland (or even the talk of idependance as it is unsettling and divisive) as the culprit and the rest of the UK the victims or vice versa
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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The skill to achieving mutually beneficial outcomes will no doubt rest with those who are able to retain an open mind to asses a variety of options ( flexibility), without divisive rhetoric and intransigence that only alienates and further divides.
But please to goodness not just assessing this from a cold clinical financial perspective, but also encorporating a social conscience with due regard to citizen's wellbeing. These politicians are after all supposed to be representing citizens best interests alongside due consideration of financial realities and constraints....
But perhaps therein lies the problem...Insufficient regard for real citizens well being when making policy decisions that can negatively impact their way of life, or proliferate unrest if not correctly analysed and realistically timeframed in the first place!
This message was last edited by ads on 27/03/2017.
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Ads
yes too many people are influenced by the media, politicians and even religous leaders who have big egos', feathering their own nests, and live in the past telling everyone what they should do instead of looking at what the basic human needs are for all citizens today and in the future.
What do we all (or most) of us want out of life?
Jobs, housing, education, healthcare, peace, future for our children, pensions, a welfare system that helps us out when needed and few of life's little luxuries.
These are too often overlooked by many
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Time to make our politicians more accountable, but only acheiveable if citizens also retain an open mind and optimistic self belief that change, where required, is possible, instead of constant doom mongering, which does little to reassure those who for whatever reason ( and understandably) remain fearful of change.
Life is full of insecurities but realistic optimism helps us all move forward doesn't it?
As for the media, that's why independent live TV debates covering wide regional areas, with fair and balanced intellectual cross questioning of the varying political representatives, intended to act as an educative tool, was and still is so essential in gaining a wide perspective of the various and complex issues.
This message was last edited by ads on 27/03/2017.
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Tadd,
But I want to support England, not a conglamorate of countries. I think you will find the same identity in the other home nations too.
Most people are very reserved about their identity. The street first, the village or town, the county, the country. Then comes europe, then the northern hemisphere. And if Aliens come, it will be the world.
Thats just the way identity works, I didnt invent it!! haha
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Best wishes, Brian
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Yes Brian, and fascinating to learn how people arrive at their identities and what has influenced them (whether negatively or positively, or a combination of both)....what that's saying "we are a product of our environment making us the unique being we are" but I still think that genetic makeup plays a part in that equation.
Let's hope that there are enough realistic optimists with open minds with willingness to seek fair and workable solutions in BOTH negotiating teams to arrive at mutually beneficial outcomes in the immediate years ahead. Perhaps we should all as European citizens hold them to account on that premise!.
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_______________________
Best wishes, Brian
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One can only hope that the more citizens that take the time to actually vote, especially when you individual vote counts, the more the politicians will listen to what their citizens are saying.
Yes we elect them to run our affairs but it does not mean they can go against a majority of voters.
If a great majority suddenly turned against government plans, the opinion polls, however inaccurate would soon begin to send a message.
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The so called politician's that voted against their constituency and voted stay IN should stand down ...in our case our so called MP overturned a 68% majority that voted OUT with their 1 vote how can this can't be right ....this is the sort of thing that goes on in a Dictatorship and not a Democracy why did the government allow this to happen ....Steven Kinnock MP strongly believe that we should stay in the EU but the constituency that he represented voted overwhelming to leave ,,,,so he voted OUT along with his constituency that voted him in to represent them this what all MPs should have done they are not supposed to be in the job for them selves ....or are they. (ONE PERSON ONE VOTE THAT IS DEMOCRACY ).
This message was last edited by windtalker on 28/03/2017.
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I watched question time last night and 5 points came out very clear to me
1. The govt are not listening to everyone and are acting like a dictatorship
2. David Davis lost just about everything he said, was ripped apart and clearly embarrased by Nick Clegg quoting him
3. How divided, confused and uncertain many still are
4. The UKIP lady was a joke - why was she even there a party with no MP's in Parliament, where were the other parties who do have MP's.
5. No representation on the panel from Wales or NI (and this was predominatley an Englsih audience)
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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This is what I saw
1. The government are doing what we asked them to do - leave the EU, no halfway house, and without showing our hand before the negotiations
2. Nick Clegg still using project fear
3. Division yes, uncetainty yes (how can anyone know how it will go until everyones cards are on the table)
4. The UKIP lady spoke sense
5. If the panel had been bigger then many points would have been missed (how could you have an audience with all the home nations,, it had to be filmed somewhere)
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Tadd
** EDITED - Against forum rules **
You talk about representing all of the people then you go on to say the UKIP lady was a joke, why was she on representing a party with no MPs?
May I remind you that UKIP polled 14% of the electorate in the 2015 general election, that represents a large number of voters and far more than Nick Clegg represents.
UKIP also did rather well in the last EU elections and have a number of MEPs who have been fighting fir a better system and a less corrupt Brussels.
You and others may treat UKIP as a joke and brand them as racists but they speak for a large minority in this country who also deserve to be listened to or are they not allowed to air their views anymore.
** EDITED - Against forum rules **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/28/2017 2:16:00 PM.
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hugh_man
under the democratic system of the UK she was not elected as an MP and therfore a non represatative of the people simple really - accept the will of the people and the democratic system of the UK (or is that only when it suits) who vote for MP's
Neither is she an elected MEP
Why no elected represnetative for Wales or NI
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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2. David Davis lost just about everything he said, was ripped apart and clearly embarrased by Nick Clegg quoting him
What channel were you watching?
David Davis showed each of Nick Clegg's statements to be miss-quotes. He looked thoughly relaxed and in command of his brief. It's Nick Clegg who was embarrassed, or should have been. His brief was abysmal.
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Tadd
I have no idea who she was as I did not watch it but can I again remind you just because she is unelected, why can't the views of her party not be reflected.
I think you will find her party UKIP actually polled more votes in a United Kingdom general election when a referendum was on the cards, than the
SNP
Plaid Cymru
DUP
and Sinn Fein combined
It is about representing numbers of UK citizens NOT regions of the UK.
Yorkshire has more voters than Scotland do the YNP want a vote to leave the U.K.?
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Yes tteedd and exactly how many parliamentary seats did Nick Clegg manage to lose when an EU referendum was a major factor in the last election?
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"how many parliamentary seats did Nick Clegg manage to lose when an EU"
I think I was criticising him?
Personally I do not have a lot of time for his politics, but he did step up to the plate and govern when he had the opportunity. He deserved a lot more from LibDem supporters. It just shows that a Lib Dem vote is a protest vote.
If you do not want your party to govern what is the point in voting for them?
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Apologies tteedd, I was agreeing with your comments.
I personally feel the Lid Dems did so poorly in 2015 was the fact they were very pro EU and the Brexit movement had already started, hence so many UKIP votes even if they didn't win seats.
Yes he did act well in the coalition which was reasonably successful but EU and to be fair, immigration was becoming an issue.
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