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Baz. Insulting other posters because you don't agree with them reflects only negatively on you. Try and engage brain before typing s'il vous plaît.
Jeepers Micky with that comment you really do take the biscuit, many past posts on this thread of yours all you do is constently remind us outers that we are the next best thing to morons.
You have no idea of anything in the real world...So thats it.
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In about half a dozen forums (fora?) I use, every time this topic is discussed the interaction becomes heated, abusive and downright personal. Yes, I know it is emotive but why this particular topic? It's all coming down to who's lies you actually believe. I have a feeling the UK will vote to leave because of the extremely poor way Cameron has handled it. Getting the POTUS to say what he did, every forecast being doom and gloom and so on. The Outers are just as bad with Boris being particularly bad, Gove being a non-entity and spinning everything.
You'd think with the Bank of England, the WTO, the IMF and even the treasury forecasting a downturn the Remain would be well ahead but, no, everything they come out with seems like a threat. All the leavers can come up with is some spurious "sovereignty" arguments and spinning of how much it costs which is such an exaggeration that it goes beyond belief.
Never mind, they aren't allowed to say anything for 4 weeks before the actual referendum. It would be nice if a total blackout was imposed on all of it. In just over 4 weeks we can go back to being nice to each other again and arguing about the best way to go around a roundabout.
Sigh, maybe some of you will got back to being friends again.
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So it's in the best interests of the EU to make life very difficult for Britain after a divorce. After all isn't that what usually happens. Anger turns to recrimination then revenge.
I have a low opinion of politicians (especially when it comes to the EU gravy train).
But I really do not think they as low mean and spiteful as you infer.
I would expect the EU politicians to act in their own, the EU's and their counties interests (in that order). Being 'spiteful' really would not be in the EU's interest. I just cannot see them reporting to their electorate that they have stopped a chunk of Germany and France's car exports. Portugal, France, Greece and Spain's olive oil, wine and cheese exports etc
But never mind, I can enjoy Australian Chardonnay, Chillean Barolo, my far eastern car, Argentinian beef, NZ cheese and lamb and African vegetables with the best of them.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 26/05/2016.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 26/05/2016.
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@tteedd
And none of those are available in UK at the moment? Funny, Australian and Chilean wines are on the shelves at Lidl and Sainsbury's, my local butcher has NZ lamb next to the Welsh lamb and I drive a Hyundai. No idea what "African vegetables" are but Tesco has a good stock of South African oranges in.
Are you trying to say we can't trade with the rest of the world while we are in the EU? If trade with the EU now only accounts for 42% of our total, who do we trade with for the other 58%? Is that space port in Cornwall already in existence so the Venusians can send us their GM crops?
Or are you just making things up?
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You are making my point for me. You know exactly what I said, you do not have to infer that was trying to say anything different. Or are you deliberately going off the planet? (or 'making things up' to use your rather odd phrase).
The EU has no reason to start a trade war with us as it would harm their manufacturers and farmers more than us given our deficit in trade with it.
A reduction in trade with the EU and reduced tariffs elsewhere would see an increase in your 58% and a decrease in our purchases from the EU.
Mrs Merkel in Germany (and likewise Mr Holland in France) have Elections coming up in 2017. They will have no interest in proposing anything that will have an adverse affect on their respective economies.
Now I promised myself that I was going to abandon this thread when my total posts reached 200 on E of S. You have provoked me to abandon this pledge!
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I think it’s a very valid question that the EU is likely to make negotiations with Britain after Brexit difficult. Not because they don’t accept the sovereignty of the British electorate. More, if it’s seen a nation can exit without consequences many more may try. Or at the very least it may fuel and encourage more exit based political movements. Many are well established in Europe already.
I feel sympathy for the UK Prime Minister who will be faced with years of toil. It will not be Cameron of course. I expect him to resign very quickly after a Brexit vote.
I expect Britain to be marginalized after that. The two year negotiating period allowed in the treaty will drag on and on. That will further exasperate market uncertainty and push the UK into recession.
Even the WTO has said Britain will have to reapply for membership and negotiate new tariff agreements. Its current membership is only because of its EU status.
In short Britain will be faced with re-setting its entire trade relationship with the rest of the world. How do you think that will play? WTO trade talks take years and years.
This referendum vote is the greatest challenge Britain has faced to its economic prosperity since the end of the Second World War. I feel that strongly that’s why I keep posting on here. Britain could be sleep walking towards disaster led by a bunch of political lightweights and hasbeens.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickey Finn it appears that Britain is already marginalised in Europe and the only way that we can gain change Is not by the ability to gain reform of the system, which ironically everyone appears to recognise is necessary, but by continual opt outs.
To many these opt outs are no longer sufficient in terms of addressing their frustrations and vulnerabilities that have arisen from a system in which they have little sway or control.
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I've been urged to keep posting! So here goes>
......................................................................................................................
Britain could be sleep walking towards disaster led by a bunch of political lightweights and hasbeens.
Jean-Claude Junkers, Neil Kinnock, Herman Von Rumpuy?
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The UK is a founder member of GATT the predecessor of the WTO. It is therefore a member of the WTO in it's own right.
The UK's membership stretches back some 23 years before access to the EEC and predates the Treaty of Rome.
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Don't lose any sleep over it Micky.
You don't even live in the UK.
So whatever happens wont affect you.
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No. When the UK became a member of the EU its membership of the WTO ceased. It is now part of the EU structural organisation membership and is required to renegotiate its status with the WTO in the event of Brexit.
David Bloom of HSBC advises watching the Swiss franc as a barometer for the likelihood of a Brexit. Currency traders are hedging Sterling against the Franc.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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baz wrote:
Don't lose any sleep over it Micky.
You don't even live in the UK.
So whatever happens wont affect you.
One of the misconceptions in the minds of the British is that this referendum is about Britain alone. In one sense it is just about what the British think of the EU. However I believe to see that in isolation from the rest of Europe is if a may say so a tragic mistake. It misses the entire concept of what the EU represents, its purpose and its political aims.
We Europeans are one people. We have shared values we believe in the same things. Nationalism divides us. Europeanism unites us as a people. What hurts one country, hurts us all. What benefits one country eventually benefits us all.
Some politicians seek to broaden divisions for their own purposes. Some believe united we are stronger against the threats the rest of the world outside Europe presents.
Those threats have never been greater since the end of WW11. America will retreat into isolation if Trump gets elected. Islamic violence is not going away and a weaken Europe will encourage them. Putin’s gangster Russia will join in the party.
Brexit will not just weaken Britain it will weaken the rest of Europe and possibly start a domino effect whereby the EU as an institution collapses. If that happens consider the impact on market economics. It could herald a return to the thirties with all he poverty and unemployment that brought.
It is a folly to believe Britain can stand alone in a globalised world and prosper. It is also an illusion that Britain can defend itself from aggression alone. NATO may be weakened if Trump is elected. At the very least he will reduce the US commitment to the defence of Europe with his slogan ‘America First.’
This is not a time to threaten the stability or solidarity of Europe. There are broader questions than just the impact of EU immigration. Remember Spain has hundreds and thousands of EU immigrants assimilated quite well in the nation. Why not Britain? Because it’s about perception, not realities
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I do not think anyone can disagree with what I actually said.
But I will go further. All agreements within the WTO list the countries by name even where those agreements have been negociated by the EU.
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good post mickyfinn
I think you have hit the nail on the head - we are all the same and want the same things for ourselves our families and the future and we can acheive this together for all
Sadly a few people keep playing the nationalist card and far too many actually believe it and think they are elite - I call it brainwashing at best and at worst racist
I see nothing particular great, special or unique about any country, county, town, village or street they are only places with names where people were born, raised, work and / or live nothing else.
We are human beings and we are supposed to look after each other from cradle to grave
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I dearly wish that Cameron would come out and accuse Brexit supporters of being racist, that would all but guarantee an exit from the EU, but sadly he ain't that daft.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Tadd you have been on the Magic mushrooms mate dont tell me you take a plane nowadays and not eye up the Muslim terrorist I know I do we are all racist at heart and anyone who says they are not is a liar
Until you have tasted real tradegy then you are nort qualified to comment
lLove Hugh xx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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I am not a racist in any sense of the word. Neither am I a liar. Do not tar please anyone else with your own brush.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I wasnt actually referring to you Mickey but because of your immediate knee jerk reaction actually highlights the fact that you are probably deep down.
Racialist against the UK by the vibe of your posts bro.
I would vote to leave just to P--s you of ho ho.
You are actually are like Mr Cameron making it up as you go along ,we brits aren't thick you know.
And you know the Irish has the most to lose out of a Brexit thats why you kerp blarting on me owd son.
Love Hugh xxx
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 27/05/2016.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Anyone who promotes nationalism and think they are superior are racist simple really nothing to do with religion just race
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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