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Nicola Sturgeon led the Scottish independence referendum... and lost. BUT her popularity (locally and internationally) sky rocketed! She is now seen as a passionate/courageous/ straight talking leader.
Boris expected the same to happen in the Brexit referendum - and he was gobsmacked when he won!
Motto " Be careful what you wish for......you may just get it" !!!
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Doesn't this debate reinforce the sad fact that trust in Politicians, "experts" and the media has broken down to such an extent that it's nigh on impossible to distinguish between reality and denial, so for many they have understandably reverted to preconceptions and self interests, and/or have made their judgement based upon first hand experiences and genuine concerns? And since we all have different first hand experiences isn't it important to respect each other's concerns and strive for solutions to try and address the vulnerabilities from whatever quarter they may come, without constantly trying to belittle one another?
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Tadd1966
don't see how they have lost a sugar daddy and trade tariffs or not!
Simples, the UK are the largest net contributor to EU behind Germany, this dosh is now in jeopardy from the EU perspective.
so what excatly (sic) do UK owned companies export to the EU that the EU cannot get within the EU or elsewhere in the world?
You've got this the wrong way round - the UK buys masses amounts of equipment from the EU. We will need parts from the EU. The reverse is true, but to a far lesser degree.
The relationship is vital all round, but we need them more than they need us.
Ads, if comment on EOS were to exclude belittling each other it would be virtually silent.
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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Acer isn't the problem here inflexibility and unwillingness by EU bureaucrats and our Politicians to listen to all our concerns and become more flexible in their approach to find solutions?
Or perhaps the reality to achieving a compromise by adopting a more flexibile approach has become nigh on impossible with 28 member states, each at such widely differing stages in their development, and each with growing dependency on those whose structure is strong. and relatively stable.
But if in that process the strength ( and stability) is being sapped out of those strong economies, especially when their own stability is threatened, isn't the reality that it requires a fresh approach to re-evaluate and prevent a downward spiral?. And isn't this where we are now?
It appears quite relevant that those who rightly have pointed to the fact that dependency has to be curtailed ( with forward planning at a rate that does not cause too much hardship) is now ironically not only required within the UK, but maybe even more importantly within the EU structure, so that member states are encouraged to grow at their own pace without being too dependent on others, rather than threaten the stability and economic viability of the hands that are currently feeding them.
I don't want that to sound condescending so I hope you understand my meaning here.
And isn't this all part of the learning curve that we're on at this moment in time?
Does this make any sense????
This message was last edited by ads on 02/07/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 02/07/2016.
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I don't know what all the fuss is about ,haven't you heard the OUTs win in a Democratic vote.
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OK windtalker but doesn't this still apply to the remaining member states who are our neighbours and in whom it's still in our interests to care about and encourage to improve their standard of living and stability?
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the problem here inflexibility and unwillingness by EU bureaucrats and our Politicians to listen to all our concerns and become more flexible in their approach to find solutions?
Yes that is spot on Ads. I think it's good to have some respect for David Cameron, but he was far too quick to agree some "improvements" in our position which actually were pretty meaningless. Possibly he overestimated the co-operation he would receive from the EU leaders and in turn they may have overestimated the general need of the Brits to the line and stay in Europe. Perhaps wishful thinking all round.
As a generalism we Brits tend to be more upfront, whilst most other Europeans other than perhaps the Germans tend to be far more coy in their negotiations. In my mind Cameron should not have held the Referendum until there were more meaningful improvements on offer, including agreement to cut back on the Brussels gravytrain. It seems the threat of Brexit was not perceived as sufficient leverage.
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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Acer. Don't you think we could start building our ambulances in England? I know that when there was a tender out for new railway rolling stock the coventry firm were shackled by uncompetitive EU rules so yhat it was virtually foregone that a rival French firm got the contract. If I remember correctly the French then sub-contracted ththes job to a Canadian company. The rules and regs are a nightmare. It has even led to many public bodies only advertising jobs overseas and not within the UK to comply with rules which are clearly anti British. But a French friend tells me one EU committee are also concerned about falling foul of rules and meet tegularly in Guernsey because they're not in the EU and therefore shows no favour to anyone 😂.
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I often wonder if the so called democracy that we have in the UK ,did allow us to have a democratic vote you can bet your boots that Cameron and the rest of the IN crowd pulled out all the stops to fiddle the vote in favor of staying in ,taking in to consideration that over 3 million xpats wher eligible for a vote the IN crowd where already half way up the running track and last over the finishing line ,if you take all the Spanish zimmer frames that wher voting IN for the wrong reson it would have been a land slide for the Outs.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 02/07/2016.
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Don't you think we could start building our ambulances in England? I know that when there was a tender out for new railway rolling stock the coventry firm were shackled by uncompetitive EU rules so yhat it was virtually foregone that a rival French firm got the contract. If I remember correctly the French then sub-contracted ththes job to a Canadian company. The rules and regs are a nightmare.
If the Coventry firm were shackled by uncompetitive EU rules how come the EU French firm got the contract?
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At least ....We can beat them on the field ( Belgium and brussles ). Well done wales football team.
I did respect Nicola Sturgeon but now dissapointed "what was she doing" at the EU last week ??. This was a UK Ref not the Scottish Ref . Should Newcastle on tyne council send a delagation as well because they voted REMAIN ??.
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Fomer member revisiting r.
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windtalker has been on the wine again, he's off on his drunken rant again
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Manxmonkey, I'm sure we can build most things that we want, but no doubt some products will take time and others may not ever be viable to produce ourselves. It may depend on the tariffs imposed.
For a while I was on the periphery of the printing industry and it seemed to me that virtually every printing machine in operation came from Germany - Heidelbergs. Many are still in use and we need to be able to order the spares to keep them going. I do not believe there is a UK alternative.
This could be a great opportunity for the UK to re-invent itself, but it's vital to keep good relations with the EU or we"ll end up like Russia or Iran, with bare shelves in the shops and without the ability to make some basic purchases.
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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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the UK buys masses amounts of equipment from the EU. We will need parts from the EU.
Will only continue if the none UK owned companies in the UK continue to manufacture in the UK and if UK manufacturing can remain competitive.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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After the way tteedd came on here screaming the odds he has stepped back a bit.
I suppose a little imagination helps you get through life.
I'm not in the habit of screaming and have not changed my mind on the EU since 1993.
I welcome outcome of the referendum which promises the return of democracy and have always been sad that the EU proved to be something other than what we were promised when we joined.
We need resolution of the situation at the moment but instead we have political meltdown.
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Let's hope Ttedd that once the Govt has established new leadership and that a proper analysis and strategy can be achieved, we will make some headway, (given the civil service were expicitly forbidden to engage with the Brexiteers and incredulously no provision appears to have been made by the Govt for a fallback strategy in the event of Brexit, as had been made by Mark Carney re financial provision ).
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acer you are spot on.
We can adapt and build and make things ourselves. Business’s and UK consumers over the years have lost their loyalty to buy British goods and no wonder when you look at the likes of British Leyland. But it is now time to forgive and forget. It all became too easy to buy things of the shelf from abroad whilst the steel industry, shipbuilding industry, car industry etc etc went bust and flung the towel in. We have the time and technology to do it. But do we have the will and desire? What’s going to happen to all the Tatty steel employees? Are they going to be re employed making airline meals. There is an opportunity here. The main problem will be the here today gone tomorrow politicians and the civil servants who really don’t give jack, and only care about their gravy train, that’s why we are so dependent on imports. There has been back hander’s everywhere.
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"That woman's tongue. If it was a bit longer she could shave with it."
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Ena
(Have we met before your posts seem very familiar?)
We can adapt and build and make things ourselves.
So who are the UK going to sell to when others already build and make things, where is the investment coming from?
Let me guess the UK will become self sufficient, great at everything, The UK will reintroduce the British Standard (and BS logo) the world will be knocking the doors down - somehow I don't think so
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Acer. Yes we bought Heidelberg kit but the parts are available made in China and now Turkey. I suppose either way we'll rely on imports. I was surprised when we bought two Peugeots to find they were made in England and with Nissan investing an additional 100 million pounds there's still some car industry skills in the UK.
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