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In the event the UK govt agree to remain part of the single market and pay £xM and accept freedom of movement (as some other models of EEA countires) Will you be satisified your bvote has been respected - NO - The vote was to leave the EU not parts of it. Thats what I expect our government to do, if they don't they will be replaced in the next general election by someone who will.
the opt in option maybe the 17M or so who voted to stay will take this up and I wonder how many exiters will also
How many will bother? No many I suspect. See how much you will have to pay to stay in the dictatorship?......
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But that is hypothetical - It's not going to happen.
How do you know and what guarantees promises have you to say that?
Again nothing on the ballot paper stopping the UK govt agreeing to anything
Everything about what will happen post brexit is hypothetical
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I voted OUT ,as l basically just don't agree to the mass uncontrollable migration from the EU , This is a big problem throughout EUROPE, I am in favor of free movement ,without the right to stay ,unless you have a job or you can support yourself without being a burden on any EU state.if the powers that are can agree to this then the UK should remain in the EU let them have the 350 million PW membership fee if they don't agree then OUT is OUT for me.
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windtalker
unless you have a job or you can support yourself without being a burden.................
Spain have that system now so why not the UK? It is obviously allowable under EU rules
forgot to add most EU migranst in the UK have a job and support themselves
This message was last edited by Tadd1966 on 09/12/2016.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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When you look at this table just as one example, you start to realise that there are all manner of differentials across member states that are currently not accounted for within EU policy and the reasons why the UK's benefit system is structured so differently.
In this particular example (2013 stats) it becomes obvious that benefits such as housing benefits and tax credits were established to supplement low income pensioners, and you start to recognise the wide differential for example between the income of Spanish pensioners and UK pensioners. In this particular example benefits were devised to compensate for low incomes so as not to leave UK pensioners impoverished in their old age.
If you follow through the logic to wage differentials, spending power differentials, unemployment and country debt differentials you start to realise that the EU system is crying out for far greater and fairer "factoring" mechanisms when determining a workable strategy, that doesn't leave member states subjected to swift "economic migrant pull factors" that leaves countries disadvantaged, either by stripping of labour or oversupply of labour and all the knock on effects thereafter.
This message was last edited by ads on 09/12/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 09/12/2016.
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Mickey wrote.
I have yet to read anything substantive on how the British believe leaving the EU will improve their lives. Much Populist rhetoric of course but how are working people who voted leave going to benefit?
As usual, the only things that are guaranteed are death and taxes.
No one can provide you or anyone with a guarantee that life will be better after Brexit, what you don't seem to come to terms with, is that a majority of voters had deemed it non beneficial to the UK or themselves staying in the EU.
It is not the government's role to make it alright for all of us, we all have to take some responsibility for ourselves our fellow humans and all help to make it work.
Large institutions need to pay taxes and consider employees and customers as well as shareholders.
Unions need to consider that some modernisation and change to work practice might not always be a bad thing.
As individuals we need to source as much as we can, made or produced in the UK to support our workers NOT Germany's or China.
We Also need to live within our own means and not constantly whinge that everything is the fault of our governments and demand Berger living standards for no extra effort.
perhaps, just perhaps we have taken some responsibility for our own actions with Brexit and there is no need to talk down the possibilities of trade and cooperation after Brexit.
This message was last edited by hugh_man on 09/12/2016.
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the UK govt agree to remain part of the single market and pay £xM and accept freedom of movement
How do you know and what guarantees promises have you to say that?
Assuming we actually leave the EU - If it does I will give £20 to a charity of your choice and post a photo or receipt to show I have done so.
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I have yet to read anything substantive on how the British believe leaving the EU will improve their lives
Someone else claiming not to have read previous posts (I'm sure however that Micky has read the lot).
However, and whatever the future, to live in a free, democratic self governing nation with a glorious past and potentially glorious future is enough for me.
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I voted 'remain' because after speaking at length to those who wanted to 'leave', like Nigel Farage (face to face at a mutual friend's party), Michael Gove over a coffee and two other prominent 'Leavers' at golf, I realised I could never be like them. I could not ever be as frightened, as slow witted, as intolerant, as inward looking nor as biased towards those who are different to me no matter how hard I tried. Do I feel superior to those that voted Leave? Yes you better believe it and I am damn proud to be counted amount those who are enlightened rather than those who are myopic.
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So slow witted that one (from a working class background) only has a Masters from Oxford and the other was a successful metals trader. Well then PP with your superior intelect we now know why they both changed course and became ardent remainers.
History is littered with those who believed they were superior.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 10/12/2016.
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Was Gove a metals trader?
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Tteedd
Please tell me more about this nation with a glorious past
My history books show the past full of violence murder rape slavery war discrimination child abuse unfair treatment of women a sad class system of inequality elitism arrogance etc etc etc
Nothing glorious
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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The Remoners ,that are demanding guarantees ,the only sure thing you are going to get is civilian unrest guaranteed.
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Not demanding guarantees just a plan or an idea of what is going to happen post brexit on many issues
Civil unrest maybe when the exiters start arguing about what us finally agreed and expecting lots of comments like that's not what I voted for etc
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Hugh wrote: One reason parts of the country voted out and can see possible benefits is
Jobs
It stands to reason with more people entering the country from wherever, seeking work, many will take jobs that locals could do.
One of the corner stones of capitalism is competition. It drives down prices for consumers and producers alike. It contributes profit for companies and a nations GDP. The trickle-down effect of competition provides employment and security for workers as well as cheaper consumer goods.
Labour is a market along with everything else. It requires market competition to function to everyone’s advantage and benefit. Free movement of people provides a pool of skilled and unskilled labour not available to business in a closed or regulated country.
One of the successes of Britain, recently Spain and Germany which contributes to its growth is a flexible labour market. Labour regulations have been reduced and removed. The market flow of labour then functions more effectively both for employers and employee. Free movement is essential for that to continue.
In France the labour market is desparate for reforms and it is one of the factors why France has been struggling economically for thirty years. Their labour market is uncompetitive and heavily regulated. Reform is blocked by powerful trade unions along the lines of seventies Britain.
If free movement of people is blocked after Brexit; British companies will no longer enjoy access to a flexible labour pool. The UK labour market will stagnate. Insufficient skilled labour is available in the existing population that can be employed or willing to work for affordable rates.
That I accept is the fault of business and government. In recent times training has not been a necessary function as migrant labour arrived to fill the gap.
I believe this is yet another reason business is likely to migrate into Europe after Brexit. The competitive nature of modern capitalism will force companies to relocate where their goods and services can be manufactured and produced profitably and their cost base is kept low.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Tadd.
Every nation on Earth has a dark past and a good past, our island nation of the UK stands high in lots of areas.
freedom, invention and industrial development, emancipation, abolition of slavery, public health, votes for everyone, democratic parliament, law and order. The list goes on and on.
i think there are parts of your history books you either have ignored, haven't got to yet. Or perhaps your history books are written by someone who doesn't want to tell you the good stuff.
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Best wishes, Brian
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I voted 'remain' because after speaking at length to those who wanted to 'leave', like Nigel Farage (face to face at a mutual friend's party), Michael Gove over a coffee and two other prominent 'Leavers' at golf, I realised I could never be like them. I could not ever be as frightened, as slow witted, as intolerant, as inward looking nor as biased towards those who are different to me no matter how hard I tried. Do I feel superior to those that voted Leave? Yes you better believe it and I am damn proud to be counted amount those who are enlightened rather than those who are myopic.
I can only imagine that those who you met are as you say for the want of better words, a little on the stupid side of life.
Perhaps the reason why you feel so 'Superior' to them is the fact that they are where they are in life, and you are on here, this forum.
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Shame we can't all be failed politicians
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Perry power 1 ,did you watch Question time the other night ,one of Remoners said on live TV that we need low paid emigrants workers in O.A.P homes to (WIPE MY BUM )so that's why I voted in. So please don't put the Remoners on a perch above the Brexiteers .The morale of the story is that every one has their reasons why they voted IN or OUT albeit who is going to wipe my BUM.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 10/12/2016.
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Tadd
Briando replies well to your charges on our nations past. But I would go further. We have no reason to be ashamed of our past. In nearly all cases we proved more liberal than others when in ascendancy.
We (the Noyal Navy) stopped the slave trade. We did not have to stop slavery because slavery was never legal in the UK.
Occasionally other nations were ahead of us in liberalisation but not often (NZ was first with emancipation of women). But in nearly all the other things you mention we were ahead of the world.
We helped spread democracy and the rule of law.
We allowed (qualified) religeous freedom early.
We stopped dictatorships and absolute rulers in Europe many times.
It is precisely this history that make us see the deficiencies of the EU.
You have clearly been reading the wrong books.
Yes we can and should be proud of our past.
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