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I have a very strong feeling that certain of the subscribers to the Brixit (why that name?) forum have never, since the inception of the EU, bothered to find out what it is about - far too many subscribers seem not to know even the fundamentals of its objectives. And those that do know are, for sure, the ones that say, or feel, the UK should remain in the EU! And, also, those knowledgable ´ins´, are desperately trying to educate the ´outs´ before they attempt to destroy the link with the UK´s salvation!
If I were not a Brit and had been following all the ins and outs of the situation, I would be saying (truthfully) ´If the UK votes to stay in the EU, I think the EU, itself, should consider holding a referendum of the other 27 EU nations, on whether, or not, to expel the UK´ from the club´!! I have lived in the continent of Europe for 39 years now working with colleagues in the Netherlands, Germany,France and Belgium (now living, for 16 years, in a mainly non-Brit Spain urb.) and, believe me, the sentiments against the British whining and complaining, that pours out continuously, has been hard to put up with. Thank goodness, I am past being ashamed of the British attitude and I no longer apologise whenever it is discussed or imposed.
OK, so many will say ´who cares what the other 27 think of us - even though we saved the majority of them in WW2. But what we were primarily doing was to try and save ourselves. The Brits and continental Europe were saved, of course, by the USA!!
Wake up Britain.
Enough said.
So it would seem then that the "Ins" know everything about why the UK should stay "In" while the "Outs" know nothing.
And it would seem that this knowledgable reasoning could be coming from someone that knows whats best for the UK, but hasn't lived in the UK for 39 years.
And it would also seem that the UK was quite selfish in trying to protect its self in 1939 and if it hadn't been for the Yanks heavens knows what would have happened.
Yep, a good post.
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I've not posted on the forum for a while but reading yet another of BRITIN's posts convinces me that he is totally out of touch with the reality of living in the UK.
He admits that he has not lived in the UK for 39 years and last visited 7 years ago following the tragic death of his daughter. He fails to show any understanding whatsoever of how life in the UK has changed since his departure, in the same way as other posters who have lived in Spain for a significant number of years. Society has not changed for the better and situations that he described continue to happen, such as the recent murder in Southwark where neighbours lit candkes to get rid of the nasty smell of death instead of calling the Police.
Whilst he appears to have had a sucessfull career as a European, many many people in the UK are suffering due to the 'freedom of movement' and Social Engineering under the Blair government that allowed a delude of people to come to the UK to live, work and recieve healthcare without the checks and balances of other countries, especially EU countries.
Is it necessary to have the equivalent of an NIE in the UK? Are Residency rules enforced?
In reply to comments from another poster about acccess to healthcare in the UK, "Doctors should refuse to check patients’ immigration status, says BMA" yes Google it then get to the source documents. Also, more recently, in reply to a question from Frank Field MP, health Minister Alistair Burt replied that holding an EHIC card is 'not required' to register with a GP and that practtices cannot legally refuse to register an application even if the don't have any identification. (Google it and find the source documents).This has been the situation for years - and there are reports that last year 1.5 million new NHS numbers were issued.
Actually, I'm glad that there are large number of ex-pats unable to vote in the referendum. What does not impress me is that EU Citizens may vote in the election of the next London Mayor and due to their vast numbers, they hold the balance of power in the vote.
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Thank you Baz for repeating my diatribe - I thought, at first, that you were going to try and shoot me down, but, instead, you seem to have ´been hoist by your own petard´. I did say that ´I have a strong feeling .....´ , but you not only seem to have endorsed what I said in my first paragraph, and you have actually done so .
OK, I have been away from the UK for nearly half my lifetime (sugar, 86 years old now) and am not adicted beer, baked beans and tattoos, but I do keep my eyes and ears open and, also, watch informed British (and foreign) TV very often and read what is published in the British (and foreign) press (the only sources where most Brits get their information from anyway!!). But I do also have contact with many other thinking Nationals, including Brits! I think I know more about the condition of the UK than many of those living there (ok, I do not travel on UK public transport, or drive a car there, or go to the football matches or the supermarkets and betting shops or the imported restaurants). Very recently (six weeks ago), I as very fortunate to be on a British cruise ship that had, mostly, British guests on board. I took the oportunity to ask many (men) their feelings about the forthcoming referendum. I was truly shocked to hear very obviously completely misinformed ideas coming from generally priviledged people - the worst being ´I don´t know what to think or to vote´. I asked those ´When will you know?´, and the typical answer was ´We´ll have to wait and see´!!!???.
I never said anything about 1939 or that the UK was being selfish - I really think you are clutching at straws in your misunderstanding of what I said, but at least you agree that the USA was Europe´s saviors then.
Goodnight.
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Voting to leave in this referendum will not affect or reduce immigration from Europe one jot. In fact it will not restrict immigration from anywhere. Even the leave campaign is not making any such claims that leaving will change the free movement of Europeans to the UK.
Its one of the misconceptions about this vote some people have. Also immigration from the rest of the world is currently controlled by the government. Brexit will alter nothing. The UK will continue to admit asylum seeking refugees. It's the nations duty and responsibility as a member of the global community.
The free movement of people and capital is a fundamental principle of being part of the single market. Even if the British vote leave the country will still have to remain in some form or other. Most likely in EFTA. That involves signing up to admitthe core principals. It is a red line the UK cannot cross.
Its dishonest of the leave campaign not to make that fact very clear to the public.
Here is a quote from the FT:
Joining the European Economic Area, an agreement that covers EU states and some European countries that are not in the bloc, would give the UK access to the single market, but it would not be bound by agriculture, fisheries, judicial or foreign affairs policy.
This would be the least disruptive option from an economic perspective. But political considerations make it is less likely because Britain would still have to pay into the EU budget, implement Brussels regulations, and accept free movement of workers.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 22/04/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Well Britin what are we mere UK mortals to make of your posts, it's quite obvious you hate the Brits, yet spend time on a British cruise ship asking the Men what they thought of the leaving the EU situation, Ladies opinions you asked I suppose, after all it will affect them as well, maybe a little more as it's them that generally run the home so they equally can see the destruction as it has happened.
You then go on in great length to explain that the misinformed Brits only get information from the misguided newspapers yet openly admit that you are well informed because you read the papers and watch TV even though you haven't lived here within the situation.
You know more about the UK then the people who live in the UK, have not lived in the country for the best part of half your lifetime, use next to none of it's services, yet know more about its condition then many who live, work and have supported the UK in the years you chose to leave this cesspit..(My words not yours), just me analysing your thoughts on the ways of the UK's. I really do hope that I have misunderstood what you said but fortunately as you have missed all of the years of the UK being part of the clan, that I doubt.
Nope I don't agree with you and the Yanks saving the UK, they didn't, but never no mind.
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How dare you, in cheap sarcastic, sneering terms, describe me as a Brit hater. Your mental quotient must verge on the edge of nil.
I am British and always will be. I remember, at the age of nine, in 1939, standing on the edge of the pavement with all my classmates, waiting for the King and Queen of Britain to sweep by in their Daimler car on their way to Wimbledon Tennis. This was at the bottom of West Hill, East Putney. We were all equiped with a Union Jack to wave at Their Majesties. They swept by so suddenly and quickly we hardly had time to raise our flags - but we were proud. My school was an ordinary State Primary School and I remember, so well, being proud of all the ´pink coloured´ countries, on the school map, being indicated as those of the British Empire! My father, for the record, was a working class electrician.
Later that year, we were issued with gas-masks just before war was declared on Germany - we, my parents and my younger sister and I, then went off on a number 37 bus, to the Granada cinema at Clapham Junction to see Snow white and te Seven Dwarves. Afterwards, we had a fish and chips supper.
In 1943, at 13 years old, I joined the Army Cadets and learned to use a rifle, a Sten-gun, to throw a hand-grenade and use a bayonet. I also learned to obey orders. My great desire was for the enemy to invade so that I may use my aquired skills. Then, one night, a bomb fell in our back garden - the night we went into the cellar instead of the shelter, my father built, which was completely destroyed.
I studied hard at night-school and then went into the RAF for my 2 year compulsory service. Right up until the seventies I worked hard and diligently for the good of Britain. Then I started my work abroad.
For you to say I hate the British is absolutely despicable and typical of those ill-informed persons with conceptions that want ´out´ of the EU!! It is not the British I hate, it is the hide-bound British, like yourself, that I dislike. And it is because of bigoted persons like yourself, that I am so critical, and frightened, of the dangerous sounds that eminate from the UK so often!!
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** EDITED ** thats all in the past its the future thats important
Love Hugh x
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 4/22/2016 3:34:00 PM.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Britin,
Unfortunately you do sound as if you hate the Brits, particularily thise that currently live and work in the UK and don't go on cruise ships.
Yes you survived the war and did your bit for Queen and County. Unfortunately the UK is no longer a Soverign Nation able to steer it's own course in the world and is dictated to by unelected Eurocrats.
In reply to the Immigration question, it has been a shambles for many years, and is out of control. We do not have the resources to staff and properly run the UK and the biggest single contibution to the situation is migration into the UK, and sucessive Governments not taking positive action to restrict the inflow and grow the UK's infrastructure to meet the many and varied demands on Government resources which have to be paid for by Taxation but for far to many years have been paid for by borrowing.
The only way out of this is for the fifth largest country in the world to re-join the world stage and look to the rest of the world, only allowing persons with genuine skills and reasons to settle, not the open door that the EU insists on.
As for not trading with the UK, do you really think that the EU will stop sellling to the UK? A couple of years ago a German guy came over to the UK to do a bit of business with me - and made the observation that he never thought that he would see British Police driving around in BMW's. The UK car industry is booming, but we are slaves to EU rules that other countries don't pay any regard to.
By the way, I drive a Jaguar - now owned by TATA - who have done a deal with the German Steel industry and hae crippled to UK steel industry.
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Oh dear...Anyway.
Unlike you I never saw the King and Queen, I do fly a flag at my businee's though, normally the Union Jack, at the moment and about to come down, the French Flag in respect of those who died in Paris, couldn't get a Belgium one for some wierd unknown reason.
I also went to Primary School like so many other Brits did, mine was more like a Borstal though, well on recap it was, reason I got my nil / zero / zilch mental quotient, I just put it down to being straight forewardly thick.
Your the second person to call me a "Bigot" the first was a school teacher or vicar who came round canvassing on behalf of his at the time government party, it was the party that wanted to drop the homosexuality age for boys, I think he got offended when I told him he just wanted fresh young stock.
I never did national service, they stopped it, not that it mattered as I joined the Royal Marines, made Sgt, came out after being shot twice, and did 19 years for my country.
I think we should come out of the EU....But I know we wont, what say you? ...
Anyway enough about me lets have some more about how you are proud to be British....Well for a few years you might have been anyway.
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** EDITED ** I said I do not hate the British, I just dislike the hide-bound Brits (or are you saying that all Brits are hide-bound?)!!
And how did TATA and the German Steel industry cripple that of the British TATA steel industry? Have you not heard of the low price Chinese steel producers? Obviously you have no knowledge of even the basics of the art of economics.
Incidentally, I do not go on cruise ships - could it have been that my family collected and paid for one trip for my 85 year birthday present - think before you, also, make your snide statements.
And your comment about unelected Eurocrats ** EDITED **- just as in the UK, MEPs are elected DEMOCRATICALLY by their own countries in the EU, and the Civil Servants of the EU are also appointed as are Civil Servants in the UK!!
** EDITED **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 4/24/2016 9:46:00 AM.
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(1st) Very recently (six weeks ago), I as very fortunate to be on a British cruise ship that had, mostly, British guests on board
( 2nd) Incidentally, I do not go on cruise ships
I smell a rat, or in the very least a Clinton moment coming.......
*** I did not have sexual relations with that girl ***
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It’s very sad to see the thread I began in the hope of some decent intellectual debate on this important subject descend into a slanging match. I suppose if you were all in a bar somewhere a fist fight would result and you would all be carted off to the nick for the night.
It is also sad to read of so much prejudice, misinformation and bar room nationalism. Arrived at by a lack of any real grasp of the salient facts.
Please posters spend a few hours reading up on international trade relations, organizations and their history. Plus the history of the European Union and its aspirations. Then return to the forum with the knowledge you have all gained and make us all a little wiser.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn,
' The history of the EU and it's aspirations'. Well, their aspiration is to have full fiscal, economic, monetry and political union. For those reasons, i'm out!!
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Well Tenerife that prospect will be far more likely to happen if Britain leaves. If it stays it's hardly possible because the Uk has a power of veto on issues related to sovereignty.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 22/04/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickey,
Sovereignty; what's that all about. They've even stated that all members must eventually join the Euro.
This message was last edited by tenerife on 22/04/2016.
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Britin,
** EDITED - Against forum rules **Yes there are elected MEP's but you should research the process to make regulations and you will find out that the decisions are not made in the same democratic way as the UK. You will also find out that the EU president Herman Van Rompuy was not democratically elected as well as other peopl in senior, decision making positions in the EU and EC.
You continue to be bitter and twisted and frankly insulting to those who have different opinions and perspective to yourself. Glad I'm not on a cruise ship with you on the same table, ranting about the EU.
It's obvious that the deal that TATA Steel is doing with German Steel makers involved German polictal influence while at the same time they are disposing of UK Steel production. As had been said before the current UK Government is following free market economic policies whilst other countries, such as the Merkleland are not.
In reply to mickeyfin: This thread has become a bit of a slanging match but the people starting and continuing the slanging are those who want to shout down people who are voting for Brexit. "prejudice, misinformation and bar room nationalism". I was wondering when somebody would play the race card, misinformation and bar room nationalism? Sorry not true. Do your research before you accuse people of that.
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 4/24/2016 9:45:00 AM.
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How can we trust that lot in Brussels? We were promised a referendum on the EU constitution, but were beaten to it by the French and the Dutch, who both voted against it. So what happened?; they represented it with some minor alterations as the Lisbon Treaty with no votes on it. Lets not forget the occasions when votes went against them, and were told to do it again in order to get the 'right result'.
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I've been researching.
Richard Coudenhove-Karlergi
Coudenhove-Karlergi prize 2010
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How can we trust that lot in Brussels?
Many scots say the same thing about England and I am sure many people living in the parts of England say the same about London etc.
Brexit will force a break up of the UK then a break up of England as devolution bites deeper and we will go backwards and start fighting each other again with greed and selfishness
Devolution is not the answer together is better
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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A breakup of England. Where does that come from? That's far fetched in the extreme.
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