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I have read a load of b+++ocks everywhere about leaving the EU. It was voted on democratically - so like it or not it is in existence. Helen & Mike plus tteedd thanks for your comments easy read and very true Ads a little sarcastic maybe . You do realise that Cameron did extend the time of voting to get more Remain votes don't you? Unfortunately this has had the effect that the Youth Remain are confronting the "old" voters and blaming them for ruining their lives!!!! They are scaring some old folk and that is not on.
You talk about walkabouts I don't think this is now possible in Europe with what is going on with the mulim immigrants, it is not safe, gone are the days when you could back pack.
I am sure you all must have read now about a) the ftse back to normal and b)the upcoming trade deals. I really think this will work out for the best. Both Spain and France have already told Nicola Sturgeon that they will not back her and will trade with us.
Just believe - it is early days but our backs have been against the wall before - remember? We are strong especially when our backs are against that wall.
Regards,
Mo
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I am sure you all must have read now about a) the ftse back to normal and b)the upcoming trade deals. I really think this will work out for the best. Both Spain and France have already told Nicola Sturgeon that they will not back her and will trade with us
when was this? Is it in a different universe to me because I haven't seen any of this information.
Spain only said no to Scotland remaining without splitting from the UK. France and Spain have not said anything other than single market trading inside the EU can't be negotiated without article 50 being declared.
Yes we can trade with anyone, but the terms are not favourable right now.
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Best wishes, Brian
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It is the problem is that England has an island mentality and isolationist. It never was like this throughout its history. Don't forget England expanded and dominated half of the world by conquest. It is a shame that England is now looking inward instead of embracing Europe and beyond. Where do we go now ? No one honestly knows,but I suspect that the youth will will rebel and try to make changes for the future.
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Omarell
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anthomo16 thanks for your comment.
OMarell i think that you are looking the wrong way. The EU is elitist and Isolationist.
My view of the need and that of my wife and family for Brexit is based on my personal and work experiences. The default arguament that leavers are ignorant and racist is rubbish, as well as insulting. The PC left are behaving like faschists.
The 'question' of free movement of labour is a simple one. We can't afford it nor is it sustainable. This situation was allowed to develop under a labour government and was not checked by the Coallition.
We used to shop in a supermarket in Park Royal, where only the black people were speaking English. Just a few yards from the hospital my mother worked with her best friend, a Jamaican lady.
Without one set of rules for everbody coming to the UK we cannot be fair. Nigel Ferage was shouted down on the debate when he said we have turned our backs on the commonwealth. Cameron is right to accept Syrian refugees only from the refugee camps. We can't accept more because of we cannot absorb the numbers arriving as economic migrants. We can't recruit hospital staff from outside the UK because of EU rules. Etc.
O'Marrell, exiters are looking beyond our borders. Working recently at the Airport, Asian staff were telling me they are voting out. They have arranged marraiges, bringing 'freshers' in as husbands and wives. When the 'accession countries' were given rights to work in the UK, the Gate Gourmet staff were shafted by management, they were mainly Asian women.
The situation with attacks on migrants is regrettable. The UK went to war on Germany when they invaded in 1939. Certainly in West London there are close links to the Polish community and it's worrying that there may be clashes with Polish Skinheads (Google that). The majority of people are not talking about repatriation, just a level playing field.
This message was last edited by MikeandHelen on 29/06/2016.
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According to BBC news tonight...."the number of families in temporary housing is at the highest it's been for more than five years, with more than a milion in England and Wales on council house waiting lists. The latest figures will be announced tomorrow, but housing analysts are warning of a perfect storm of rising rents, benefits cuts and an acute shortage of affordable housing. The Govt says it has a 5 million pound fund to help councils under the most pressure. A giant housing crisis. It may be centred on London but this is a national housing crisis, with soaring rents, benefit cuts, and now more than a million people waiting for council houses which simply aren't there. The people who are paying the price are ordinary families."
Also according to Landlords today, one of the UKs largest and most controversial landlords with a £250 million pound property portfolio (who controversially increased rents last year by 33% following Osborne's tax relief changes,) was quoted as saying
“People have got to have somewhere to live and immigration is forcing up rents at the bottom of the market. Vultures like myself have bought all the cheap properties, and we put in them the people who are able to afford the rent.
“At the moment the vast majority of my tenants are Eastern Europeans who work in low skilled work but are cash rich. Poorer English people are totally off my radar - they don't really get a look in as they are mainly in council houses.
Or presumably looking for council houses?
These are sadly some of the stark realities, and this alongside a recent report stating that British working class boys have now been identified as the worst performing group, with monies in several overstretched regions being targeted at those schools requiring funds to accommodate Eastern European children.
It's not exactly a good legacy that David Cameron is leaving behind, is it? But it's equally worrying for a nation that prides itself on tolerance and caring.
P.s This not meant to be sarcastic. It's heartfelt.
This message was last edited by ads on 30/06/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 30/06/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 30/06/2016.
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Newsnight tonight was on about housing in London
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OMARELL,
I would suggest that it is we who are outward looking, and it is the EU that is inward looking with it's protectionist outlook to trade.
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@briando. Yes we can trade with anyone, but the terms are not favourable right now.
The 200-odd countries that are not in the EU manage to trade profitably with the EU without being forced to allow EU citizens to move to their countries. The USA, China and Russia export billions of Euros worth of goods to EU but no-one says they must grant freedom of movement.
Basic World Trade tariffs are between 3% & 4%. The Sterling/Euro exchange has varied by over 20% in the last year alone, so I can't see a 4% tariff necessarily having a big effect. Of course, if it did, then German automakers (eg) would either have to absorb the tariff or see hundreds of thousands of job losses. UK would make a killing in collecting the tariffs as we import far more than we export. UK car manufacturers would have to employ extra people to cater for the demand for UK-made cars in place of German ones (import substitution). Skilled unemployed Germans could apply for visas, I am sure they would be welcome.
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Thanks Guy, that's refreshing to hear.
We don't appear to have any need for negotiation now, we can just trigger the article and get on with it. Everything the EU says and the future representations we will be making is not worth while wasting time on.
The financial markets as we suspected for a long time, are only there to create panic and raise money for shareholders and traders, who make money for nothing.
our NHS is safely funded, as is our pensions and our GDP and employment levels. No question of a recession.
dont know what the fuss is all about Guy, you just explained it in a couple of paragraphs, well done that man.
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Best wishes, Brian
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@briando. Yes we can trade with anyone, but the terms are not favourable right now.
The 200-odd countries that are not in the EU manage to trade profitably with the EU without being forced to allow EU citizens to move to their countries. The USA, China and Russia export billions of Euros worth of goods to EU but no-one says they must grant freedom of movement.
As there are only 195 countries in the world then the 200 odd countries plus the ones in the EU is a big planet. Yes, those countries export to the EU but they have to pay a tariff and receiving countries have to pay import duties.
Basic World Trade tariffs are between 3% & 4%. The Sterling/Euro exchange has varied by over 20% in the last year alone, so I can't see a 4% tariff necessarily having a big effect. Of course, if it did, then German automakers (eg) would either have to absorb the tariff or see hundreds of thousands of job losses. UK would make a killing in collecting the tariffs as we import far more than we export. UK car manufacturers would have to employ extra people to cater for the demand for UK-made cars in place of German ones (import substitution). Skilled unemployed Germans could apply for visas, I am sure they would be welcome.
Tariffs on cars are 10%. Goods to and from Brazil are at 13.5%. Are people going to give up their BMWs, Audis etc and buy British? If we import more than we export, how could we make a killing collecting tariffs? Wouldn't that be the other way round? Export 100 billion (as and example) with 5% tariff and the other countries would have to pay 5 billion. Import 150 billion and we would have to pay 7.5 billion. You're also forgetting the reason foreign car companies choose to do business in UK, the access to the single market. Most car components come from EU countries. If they now have to pay import duties or tariffs on those parts it may not be as profitable. It's why VW makes the Beetle in Mexico instead of USA.
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In the aftermath of last week I have never seen so many people feeling flat and unhappy.
It feels like we are now in a summer of discontent and reminiscent of the 70’s & 80’s
Too much uncertainty for far too many
Families in disagreement
Friends in disagreement
Tensions across the social spectrum
Political parties unsettled and split with far too many disagreements
Immigrant families being targeted with hatred across many regions in the UK
The atmosphere is one of uncertainty and very very tense - how long before we see serious issues spilling out on to the streets.
I have concerns as many head to the pubs and clubs etc. this weekend with debates being fuelled with alcohol.
I keep hearing the British are best when their backs are against the all and we will come out fighting – this is not a war and we cannot maintain this “old empire” “stiff upper lip” mentality
I think there are very sad times ahead over a referendum that was badly planned, with many on BOTH sides misinforming the voting public with lies, and scaremongering, add to that some very big egos and personal ambitions/conflicts/vendettas being played out in public by some very senior politicians who have behaved like spoilt children and continue to do so.
We call ourselves free, caring, and civilised and a great nation – what a joke this referendum has turned out to be in many many ways, it has caused deep divisions across the country which will take decades to repair and we should ALL hang our heads in shame and disgrace at the behaviour and ineptitude of BOTH sides.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Couldn't agree more Tadd.
I fear the racial backlash from these events, we may have riots back during the summer school holidays again. I have never seen politicians so full of there own importance before, it's frightening really.
Everyone and their grandmas have become experts and most out voters think it's a vote to send anyone who doesn't look white British back home
Most of the people sitting outside weather spoons at breakfast pint time look to be white tattooed British to me. Can we send them anywhere? ( there's my prejudice coming out).
Most of those people have two countries in the world to consider trading agreements with, over here and over there.
I didn't think I would say this before but Cameron is looking like the best statesman we have right now.
What a mess.
This message was last edited by briando55 on 30/06/2016.
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Best wishes, Brian
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"If we import more than we export, how could we make a killing collecting tariffs? Wouldn't that be the other way round? Export 100 billion (as and example) with 5% tariff and the other countries would have to pay 5 billion. Import 150 billion and we would have to pay 7.5 billion."
You are confused.
Tariffs are paid by the importing freight forwarder and the money goes to HMRC. Import €150 billion of (German cars, eg) @ 5% tariff and the 7,5% import duty is collected by HMRC. HMRC would make a killing. If the duty is passed on to the consumer, then the price of German cars increases. This inclines UK purchasers to substitute by buying a UK-made car.
Tariffs on cars are 10%.
UK could levy whatever tariff it wanted on imported EU cars. If the EU played hardball, UK could impose tariffs on EU cars that would totally stop car imports from the EU. This would put hundreds of thousands of German and Spanish auto workers on the dole. Just what the EU needs. You seem to be under the misapprehension that tariffs are fixed in stone. They vary from country to country, often depending on how badly the product is needed, whether there is a local similar manufacturing base that needs protecting, or as part of reciprocal low tariffs because countries both have a keen interest in exporting to one another. eg EU puts 10% tariff on USA automobiles but the USA allows EU automobiles in with a 2,5% tariff. It's all up for grabs.
For example, in the current TTIP negotiations, the EU is striving for a tariff free exchange of goods between North America and the EU. I don't hear the EU insisting that its citizens must be allowed to live in the USA.
"Most car components come from EU countries. If they now have to pay import duties or tariffs on those parts it may not be as profitable. It's why VW makes the Beetle in Mexico instead of USA."
UK could allow EU stuff that we badly needed to enter UK tariff free. Or just let it in tariff free if it was ultimately destined for re-export.
The EU has always had punitive import duties on agricultural products to protect French farmers. UK is bound by this nonsense. Once free we can import whatever we want at whatever tariff we decide to impose.
These things have to be hammered out in trade talks by competent negotiators, not people like Cameron who would give the wholse shop away before the talks started - as he seemed to be doing at the EU dinner the other evening. "Yes, we recognise there will have to be some free movement." Baloney.
"we should ALL hang our heads in shame and disgrace at the behaviour and ineptitude of BOTH sides."
I agree, let's all have a little cry.
This message was last edited by GuyT on 30/06/2016.
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Guy.
Please don't apply for the job of negotiator on my behalf. You don't appear to have the negotiating skills required.
approaching the trading deals from a point of view of saying we will put our prices up if you do, so there, means anyone who would usually buy a merc on the Mercedes finance will no longer do that, they will look at citreons and decide they are now too expensive, then the Russian lada will have a resurgence when they step in to fill the gaps!
really looking forward to your view of the future mate (not).
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Best wishes, Brian
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Boris not standing for PM - there's a surprise - Not!! Just light the touchpaper and stand well back!!
Although a collective government process it will be interesting to see who has the balls to sign the article 50!! clearly Boris hasn't
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Time to look more optimistically to the future perhaps given the markets are now stabilising as suggested, that the UK still commands respect with regard to the rule of law, the Northern Power House report suggests Northern economy could be worth £ 97bn by 2050 with 1.5m jobs created, plus discussions between Turkey and EU now commencing with reform now higher on the agenda, with mention of "fresh start"????
Stay strong folks!
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Ok, the decision has been made and we must get on with it. I voted leave but have enough of a sense of humour to post this link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-downfall-hitler-video-meme-eu-referendum-bunker_uk_57737efce4b081f48abaa055
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The UK does not have to rush to pull the trigger. There is no time limit on how long that can be delayed; it could even be delayed forever. It is for the UK to decide, the EU cannot do it.
It may be that given time the EU will agree to amend the way it operates. Maybe revert more to a trading bock (which the UK voted to remain in when they voted in 1975) than a continent on the path to a united states of Europe.
It would appear many factions across the EU want change, so that their sovereignty may be restored.
The longer UK waits to start the process the more chance that there may be change, which will negate the vote to leave.The
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My God, a politician telling the truth, I've just taken two aspirin. When Boris said all those weeks ago he had no ambition to be Prime Minister I assumed he would later say he'd been persuaded!! 😆.
Meanwhile the Leavers claimed interest rates would shoot up. Mark Carney says in fact more likely to reduce interest rates.
Leavers claimed FTSE would collapse to 3,500 ..it's gone up and at 6,500 tonight is almost in bubble territory. I hope Project Fear were wrong on the third world war and collapse of European Civilization!!!
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Well this all seems like a storm in a tea cup being brewed by all parasite politicians and civil servants. All they want to achieve is a gravy train to get paid a salary, a new black merc, expenses, 5 star hotels, fine dining and business class flights.
Free movement of people. Started out free movement of workers and probably under EU law still is. However it has now become free movement of every Tom, Dick and Harry. So we’re not having it, so what. Why is this Junker sort sticking his nose in? What’s it got to do with him who we choose to let in or not into the UK. Is he just stirring it up for himself and is mates to join the gravy train?.
Trading with the EU, what’s the big deal? We import far more than we export, so if there is going to be tariffs we can only be the winners. If they put 10% tariff on Brit the farmers carrots, then we put 10% tariff on their oranges, etc, etc. Seeing we will have the excess income on tariffs, we can then rebate the Brit farmer on his carrots. It’s not rocket science.
It would take someone like Richard Branson or Alan Sugar an afternoon to sort all this crap out.
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"That woman's tongue. If it was a bit longer she could shave with it."
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