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Ah well, the posts are now getting surreal and bear no relation to the present day. 1914? What a load of rubbish.
And the majority of immigrants to the UK are not from the EU. 14% are returning expats, 44% are from non-EU countries (mainly SE Asia) and 42% are from the EU. Just to stop the Daily Mail readers getting their rants in.
In case some people missed, we no longer have an Empire and even loads of the Commonwealth don't even like us.
This message was last edited by bobaol on 25/02/2016.
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The only thing the old codgers that live over in Spain full time are worried about is who is going to pay for my health care in Spain as I cannot afford to pay private and I will have to go back to the land of milk and honey and live next door to an Eastern European .
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The only thing the old codgers that live over in Spain full time are worried about is who is going to pay for my health care in Spain
Pretty sure that if push comes to shove you will be OK if you are here legally. But I also recon if we vote 'out' there will be lots of discussion and then we will be given another chance to give the 'right' answer just as Ireland and Denmark were.
And the majority of immigrants to the UK are not from the EU.
Who cares where they come from?
Continued immigration puts pressure on public services, race relations and the green belt (let alone our ability to feed ourselves in an emergency).
In case some people missed, we no longer have an Empire and even loads of the Commonwealth don't even like us.
GB, surprising, still has much goodwill in Australia and New Zealand despite our selling them down the river when we joined the EEC.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 25/02/2016.
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What puts pressure on the UK welfare state is the millions of brits who have never contributed generation after generation nit the immigrants
Scrap the current welfare state and start again and make it contribution based
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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There seems to be far too much emphasis on immigration and health care I spain for old codgers etc
There are far greater and more important issues to discuss
Remember reciprocal agreements between spain and uk for things like health and tax are NOT dependant on eu membership. If uk does leave then spain and uk could renegotiate if borh spain and uk wush to but why would they
As said before uk has many reciprocal agreements with many countries eu or non eu etc
Potential issues for all 4 uk states
Import and export rules of uk exit will uk be eea or not
Trade import export tariffs price
No answers from either side on these
How many businesses owned by non UK companies have issues and concerns
What are they
What are the real implications of staying in benefits will be available to immigrants after 4 years so only a small delay
Too many Un answered issues but I believe in eu and support further integration for everything especially tax education health care benefits and pensions
I really don't care what nationality the leader is as long as they deliver equality for every citizens needs
I don't care about sovereignty or the pound or the pint or the mile or even straight sausages
Humanity equality caring for the needy is far more important than the drivel that is in the media
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Many good reasons for both 'in and 'out' have been posted here, but may then go on to 'shoot themselves in the foot' by going on to use words like 'bastards', 'old codgers', thicko's etc, TAKE A CHILL PILL.
Whatever the final decision, 50% will wake up on the 24th June and either be happy with their decision or be sorry for their decision, LIFE WILL GO ON:
NO-ONE WILL DIE
NO-ONE WILL INVADE US
NO-ONE WILL STARVE US
WE WILL STILL TRADE WITH THE EU AND THEY WITH US
To put things in context, I quote from the great Groucho Marx:
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies".
"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members".
"I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be. Yesterday is dead, tomorrow hasn't arrived yet. I have just one day, today, and I'm going to be happy in it"
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made".
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others". (not too sure if this was Groucho or David Cameron).
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five".
"I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".
Now you choose:
The words of a comic genius or the words of one with his genitals in a pigs mouth...THE CHOICE IS YOURS.
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BigAl2015, your comments are well put. Tadd1966 and bobaol, unfortunately you are using reason to deal with people that are unreasonable and it just does not work.
Is it only me that has noticed as the debate gets a full head of steam up the 'stay in' people and the undecided people get calmer and produce answers and pose questions that make sense while the 'get out' crowd start chanting like a lynch 'em mob and sounding like Queenie off of Black Adder?
I feel much more relaxed about it now. The desperation has set in so early from the 'outs' that the rational amongst us will prevail and an 'In' vote is inevitable.
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It's looking like being a close run thing, perhaps it's time for plan 2, neither Cameron or Merkel made allowances for Boris's intervention. I believe that we will end up staying in a greatly down powered EU, this has needed doing for many years, change was inevitable, the UK was never meant to be benefits heaven, we have enough problems with our home grown serial claimants.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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I would like to know what the "in" voters consider as priorities to reform and how they think this will be accommodated given the status quo.
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Hephaestus makes some excellent points. It will probably will be a close run thing and we will end up staying in. I don't support the view that Mr Johnson's siding with Brexit will have a huge impact partly because he is an opportunist. He is a U-Turn specialist (please see http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/22/what-does-boris-johnson-really-think-of-european-integration) and a bit too self serving for my palate but not a xenophobe. I suspect he will switch sides before June.
Reform to the EU is overdue and I feel that the UK's position is felt in many other EU countries else it would not have been agreed. Some countries may have other things in mind that they will want to table that will further Mr Cameron's goals. But it will take time and we only benefit by being in the discussion.
Remember that Winston Churchill was a very early architect of the EU. "Winston Churchill, a former army officer, war reporter and British Prime Minister (1940-45 and 1951-55), was one of the first to call for the creation of a 'United States of Europe'. Following the Second World War, he was convinced that only a united Europe could guarantee peace. His aim was to eliminate the European ills of nationalism and war-mongering once and for all."
Ads, we need to concentrate on a common policy to deal with the Syria issue. If people are displaced from their homelands they are going to move somewhere and Europe is the logical choice for Syrians. This is an issue that affects us all.
The reform I would like most to see is for the UK to have a bigger say in Europe, but that can't be done if we don't want closer Union and the Euro. If we are content to be backseat drivers then that is the role the EU wil let us have. Rather unambitious for the United Kingdom. I for one am not afraid of facing off with the French and German's over views about how the EU should develop.
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I would like to know what the "in" voters consider as priorities to reform and how they think this will be accommodated given the status quo.
Good question ads.
I believe the EU commission must be made more accountable to the ordinary voter in Europe. So elections for all the top roles would be at the top of my list. The commissioners then would have equal rank status with sovereign member leaders. Currently they are a grace and favour appointment by heads of government.
Secondly I would like to see meaningful reform of the CAP. In France and I'm sure elsewhere also the CAP distorts farming practices, encourages waste and environmentally damaging processes. There are so many hopelessly uneconomic small peasant farmers in the French countryside. They are propped up by subsidies from the CAP.
Thirdly it is long overdue to have a central vehicle registration authority in Europe where all vehicles and drivers licenses are registered. It would save all the nonsense of having to re-register a vehicle every six months when you move around Europe. Everyone could have a European registration plate.
If the UK is outside the EU it would be impossible to influence any form of change that impacts the British economy. It is a lie that Britain would not be still closely tied to the EU if Brexit takes place.
Common sense must tell everyone that you cannot simply ignore your closest neighbours where the bulk of your trade and earning wealth originates
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I didn't notice the press camping on Ian Duncan Smith, Nigel Lawson or Michael Howard's doorsteps when they declared in favour of 'out', however they have never left Boris alone since he did similar. Churchill could not decide which party he belonged to, I've not noticed Boris changing to another party, Churchill nicknamed Sir Hartley Shawcross Sir Shortly Floorcross because of him having similar indecisions, still a very clever jibe though. 
As for EU membership helping to secure peace, I'll put my money on NATO everytime. The EU is a joke, wanting no lifetime tarifs for UK serial killers, instructing the UK to reduce it's personal bank deposit guarantee, butting into the UK's treatment of terrorists, etc,etc. Why we don't simply tell them to do one everytime they come out with another of their stupidities, I have no idea, what could they do, give us all slappy legs perhaps? 
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Hep
You make it sound liek the EU is targetting the UK - same pressures and rules apply to all states and many of these issues are debated and agreed by a multi state committee often made up of elected MEP's
some states accept these rules directiver or whatever some fight and some even ignore which is another reason why we need common processes and laws across the board and greater integration and choose the best pratices from each state that can make life better for each and every citizen of the EU
Again a 4 state union of the UK is a good basic model to adapt for a fully united EU - then again one state (the English) are going to decide what is best for the other 3 which is unfair and needs fixing before the vote and the new fix could then be applied across a great united EU
personally I dont give rats what Churchill did or didn't do that is history we are where we are and we all know we learn nothing from history good or bad so lets just leave history where it is in the past and look forward to a better future in or out
Not all EU / EEA countries are full member states of NATO
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Just one point. The bank guarantee is a EU ruling (which they brought in to protect savings) and is set at €100,000.
They did not instruct the UK banks to reduce their guarantee. The UK banks set it at £80,000 to match the euro equivalent and then, when the pound was doing well, reduced it to £75,000 as that was the same as €100,000.
I assume they will be increasing it back to £80,000 once the pound drops to €1.25 which it is likely to do so very soon. Claiming the EU instructed the banks to reduce it is nonsense when it was a EU directive to provide one in the first place. In fact, if you look at the EU directive 94/10 EC it lays down a minimum of €100,000. If UK wanted to it could increase that amount but not reduce it.
However, never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
(NATO is another subject altogether. France wasn't even a member of it from 1996 to 2009 but still never went ot war with anyone in the EU during that time. NATO protects its members from outside aggression and was never intended to stop its own members having a go at each other. If it did, it didn't do very good with Turkey and Greece back in 1974. Both NATO members but not both EU members having a bit of a scrap).
This message was last edited by bobaol on 26/02/2016.
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bobaol
The bank guarantee is a EU ruling (which they brought in to protect savings) and is set at €100,000
good point - before this ruling I believe the limit was approx £35K might be wrong
so a positive from the EU
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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The bank guarantee before 2007 was 100% of the first £2,000 and then 90% of the next £30,000. It was only when Northern Rock customers started panicking that the level was put up to £35,000. Now, under EU rulings, it is €100,000 for each person named on the account so, a joint account with husband and wife will be protected up to €200,000. The UK banks have not set a pound limit on the new rules but abide by the EU level and the original £85,000 went down to £75,000 purely because of a fall of 16% in the euro rate last year. It will be interesting to see how quick they are at putting it back up now the pound has had a similar fall.
However, bit of the main subject. I'm just sure that claim and counter claim will be the norm and ever more exaggerated claims will be made depending on which newspaper you read. I'm deffo thinking of moving to a Caribbean Island until the four months is up. Somewhere with no internet access or UK newspapers and I'll post my vote while I'm away.
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FT poll of polls. 23 Feb 2016.
STAY 46% LEAVE 38%
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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If we leave the EU, what happens to the MEPs?
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FT poll of polls these so called polls mean nothing and tend to get manipulated by the people that run them I have looked at several in / out polls and five out of the seven say out the only poll that matters is the one to be held on the big day and I am very sure the people that live in the UK will make the right choice so the Brit epats that have given up their British citizenship and taken up a Spanish one will have to sit back and let the British vote .
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How many British do you know that have taken up citizenship? Very few, I would imagine. Now, residency is an entirely different thing.
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