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Well, Micky this BREXIT post of yours is probably one of your best yet, for sucking lemons that is.
This time you really have shown up your true colours to which you know nothing about.
Your eyes must really be hurting you from the all the negative readings you have to do just to come up with everything or anything that might happen.
No one has any evidence to support anything, leaving or staying.
But for sure as hell you will find out when we leave....And no it wont be to late then either.
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A decision by the Supreme Court against the Government’s right to trigger Article 50 would raise profound questions about the power of an unelected judiciary to over-ride the will of the British people.
In this context, it is vital that the judges are seen to be independent. Yet four of the 11 members of the Supreme Court have formal links to either the EU, its courts or European institutions; five have publicly expressed views which appear to be sympathetic to the EU; while six have personal links with individuals who have been critical of the Leave campaign.
Only four have no obvious associations with the Remain ethos. Just one, Lord Sumption, has given indications of Euroscepticism.
Crucially, the British justice system revolves around the principle that judges — and particularly Supreme Court judges — are fair-minded individuals capable of treating all cases entirely on their legal merits, regardless of their private loyalties.
So un-biased opinions will come from these judges then.
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baz
these are supreme court judges and we have to expect and trust their rleibaility and knowledge of the law. who would you appoint 11 people off the street or 11 exiters - everyoen has apersonal view you coudl also why is TM headingte berxit when she is clearly a remianer
they are not deliberating the vote they are looking at the law of the land and to ensure that the govt follow the law they are supposed to uphold
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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C mon Micky, you cannot be serious.
What evidence can you put forward to support that view? The stability of the EU is not under threat because of Brexit as the leavers would love to believe. The solidarity and trading relations of nations is stronger than any one country even though Britain’s budget contributions will be missed. The EU existed before Britain joined and it will continue long after the UK has left.
A referendum in Italy that could be very close on the subject of constitutional change?
Italian banks under severe pressure and total debt to GDP approaching 120%
Either a Right Wing or Far right wing government in France in 2017 both of whom will introduce austerity measures because their economy is so stretched, the Far Right would almost certainly have an EU referendum.
A possible Facisist PM in Austria.
Huge pressure from centre right in Germany on Mrs Merkel in 2017 elections.
Pressure from many individual countries to do something about immigration.
The EU refusing membership to Turkey, inviting a further flood of migrants into Europe.
Just to put forward a few ideas of evidence towards the break up of the EU and we haven't even heard a word about Gree e fir some time whose debt has increased further.
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'I predict an exodus of financial services business to Paris or Frankfurt.''
40 years ago I went on holiday to Tunisia. We were seated for meals with a German family from Frankfurt. As their son was of similar age to my daughter we got on quite well. He (the father - or farter as the son kept calling him after leaning what it sounded like in English) worked on the Frankfurt Borse. He kept telling me that now we were in the EEC the functions of the city would be moving to Frankfurt.
More recently we have seen the EU trying to legislate away the abilities of the City.
They have failed to emasculate the City in, they will have no chance once we are out.
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'they are looking at the law of the land '
Problem is there is no law and the precedents the original 4 looked at were 400 years old when the electorate was about 10% of the adult population, all male and all landed gentry. You or I are as qualified to enterpret this one as they.
An unbiased response from the judiciary is almost certainly that they have no grounds to make a judgement.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 03/12/2016.
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Hugh.
Your list is simply the day to day process of domestic politics writ large. What would you expect in a union of 27 nations peace harmony and lack of dissention? The media like to make it worse than it really is. You should not read too much that reinforces your own opinion.
Italy’s referendum if it fails will not make one jot of difference. Italy has had 62 governments since the end of WW11. Renzi might go but then so what? Italy will always be just Italy. I have lived there and it won’t ripple the froth on the top of a latté
The Austrian Presidency is ceremonial. Largely politically meaningless.
The ECB when push comes to shove will help Italian banks in the same way they did with Spain’s broken banks during the credit crisis.
Merkle has lost some CDU support because of her support for the refugees but she would not stand again if she thought her position was threatened. No one in German politics comes anywhere close to her.
Immigration is a political problem for Europe and the EU not one that will topple it.
Turkey needs the EU. It’s going through a transition after the failed coup. It’s also playing the only cards they have to gain advantage. Once a country threatens is actually means it won’t act. Otherwise it would have already done so.
Greece is actually fairly stable at the moment still up to its eyes in debt but not likely to threaten the stability of the European Union.
Europe is recovering economically from the greatest recession the world has known since the thirties. If it can whether that storm it’s well set for the other headwinds which blow from time to time; Including Brexit.
Your list did not include the FN in France. That I would accept would be a major challenge to the EU’s stability. Except it isn’t going to happen, unless French socialists suddenly believe they would be better off with Le Pen and without all those juicy farm subsidies. France is largely a nation of small farm peasants who exist on EU support.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 03/12/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Italy’s referendum if it fails will not make one jot of difference.
Sure.
The worry for the EU is that if the current Italian referendum fails the government will fall and the likely new government is threatening a referendum on EU membership.
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Micky is unconcerned about another Italian government failure, but this one at time that it's banks are in serious trouble and the opposition is threatening an EU referendum, so that's ok then.
Political swings currently in Europe are all part and parcel of the domestic politics, so that's alright then.
I mustn't believe what many pundits are fearing becausecMicky thinks it ain't a problem, so that's alright then.
One minute Micky wants to slash his wrists because of the dire circumstances that Brexit will lead us to.
The next minute he is looking through rose tinted spectacles at the political turmoil currently being felt all over Europe.
But the EU is just hunky dorey, because Micky says so, so that's alright then.
Unbelievable that no one else could possibly have a valid point of view that differs from Micky, who obviously has ALL the answers, which end up in staying exactly where we are.
Lets have a second referendum and whilst we are at it shall we have a second by election vote in Richmond, in case we want to change our minds. 😢
PS if you read my post I did mention France and I agree unlikely the FN will win but the next bet is also the Right wing and will attempt to impose austerity, which will not go down too well with the so called peasants that your rather impolitely call them. There will be huge unrest in France as well.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
This message was last edited by hugh_man on 03/12/2016.
This message was last edited by hugh_man on 03/12/2016.
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these are supreme court judges and we have to expect and trust their reliability and knowledge of the law. who would you appoint 11 people off the street or 11 exiters - everyoen has apersonal view you coudl also why is TM headingte berxit when she is clearly a remianer
they are not deliberating the vote they are looking at the law of the land and to ensure that the govt follow the law they are supposed to uphold
Well, knowing a magistrate quite well, who let of a chap over a drugs prosecution, who told me that he didn't think the name he gave to the court was quite the correct name, the charged person lived 4 houses away from the magistrate, unbelievable, yes without a doubt, but it happened.
All the time judges here now let of known criminals / rapists / muggers etc etc over so called points of law even knowing full well they were 1000% guilty giving them the benefit of his judgment hoping they will become changed people.
If you end up on a jury your asked if you know the person who is charged, and, or do you have or had any connections with them present or past, if the answer is yes to any question your out, to be on a jury your supposed to be Un-biased in your findings towards the accused and judge them on the evidence told to you.
That would have been a better way to get these judges interpret the laws on leaving....If none of them had any interest in the EU, or stood to gain from staying in, as it is all but 4 have everything to gain from saying the out vote was incorrect and against the law, so we have to stay in, I will be very surprised if they vote okay to leave. Point of law or not.
Mrs May did want to stay in but she took the job on knowing full well that she had to take notice and uphold the wishes of the public who voted out, now she might have interests in the EU but she is still doing want her people want of her.
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The so called supreme Court judge's all eleven of them have a job to do ,that job is to uphold the law of the land ,the British citizens pay them extremely well for this ,they have a job because we live in a Democracy ,if we lived in a Dictatorship they would not have a job and the population of the UK would have no say on how the country is run. these judge's will not over rule the will of the majority vote ,if they attempt to do this then we are on the road to a Dictatorship .In the passed on many occasions I have voted for the side that have lost ,and just put it down to experience and living in a Democratic where a Majority rule wins the day why can't people accept this.
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Hugh
Your personal attacks on myself indicate to me you have lost the argument. When you make statements that the EU is doomed I post a contrary argument nothing more. I respect you have a different opinion to me. So why do you feel it necessary to make sarcastic remarks about a writer who believes the opposite? What do you think it achieves?
If you had lived in France as long as I have you would know that small French farmers are called Paysanns which is Peasant in English it is not a degoratory term.
I dont have even a quarter of the answers. I have no inflated opinion of my own abilities and I dont consider myself right. I offer my opinion for what it's worth c'est tout!..
What I do know is British media and far right politicians have been predicting the collapse of the EU for more than fourty years. They will likely go on doing the same for a similar time until they finally accept the British should have remained. The festering resentment the Conservative Party andit's backers held against Edward heath for taking the country into the Union has never gone away.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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"Twelve months after storm Desmond – the first of a series of devastating winter storms to batter Britain – the European Commission is still assessing the UK’s bid for aid. It was submitted to the EU Solidarity Fund (EUSF) on September 22 to help pay for repairs after damage to homes and businesses. The European Commission was expected to make a decision within six weeks. "
And people wonder why we voted for Brexit? Close to where I live in the Calder Valley the area was devastated by flooding. Our local council and the UK government plus insurance companies have had to pay out millions. Wheres the help from the EU?
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I find it unbelievable that on one hand some exiters are questioning the credibility of supreme Court judges based on their personal views yet support the PM and the cabinet despite many if them being remainers and their personal views
Just goes to show the divisive nature in the uk and the full lack of knowledge of where the uk are heading now
Both the judges and the politicians have a publue and legal obligation to check that everything is done in accordance with the law and to the satisfaction of all anything less will be gross neglicence
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Micky
They are most certainly not personal attacks, they are comments on your reasoning that all is well with the EU therefore we should stay, full stop.
As I speak French I do know what Paysann means but there is a difference using that to peasants as many would not understand.
Indont think ALL of the media have continually attacked the EU, though at times they have written articles on its failure to ensure the financial requirements are met, it's waste of tax payers money, it's intransigence, it's inefficiencies as they do about similar situations in the UK.
Its called Freedom of the Press
By know means is there a majority of Far Right Tiry MPS who want us out of Europe, there arena few as there are all over Europe and they have more respect these days because a large number of voters are sharing some, not all of their views, it's what democracy and protest votes are all about.
The citizens of Europe want change, those that run the EU need to realise that.
There is only so long you can bang your head against a brick wall, before you must leave the club.
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the resurgence of the far right is not really limited to EU states it is across the world
is it cyclical? - possibly as people become more and more dissatissifed with the greed and selfishness of a minority and the favouritism (whether out of fear or their own self preservaiton) shown by govt's towards the monirities of the rich and so called powerful people
people are grasping at straws (just like the brexiters) to blame anyone and look for a "quick fix" but history tells us that this will cause more problems for the majority as these far right fanatics take control - inevitably we will end up in conflict and all teh evil things that come with it
Govt's need to focus on the majority of the people and their needs and in the main these are quite simple
Jobs,
housing,
education
health care
pension
welfare state - that can help ONLY when really needed
equality
will this ever happen - sadly not in our lifetime but I am sure some will blame this on the EU
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Hugh.
I suggest you look again at your writing style and ask yourself if you were not making personalised attacks on me rather than debating the core subject matter.
This morning a group of senior Tories have issued a statement warning the government that they risk losing the next general election if they continue the alienation of Conservative voters. It is also clear from Boris Johnson this morning that the senior members of cabinet are at each others throats in a fractious debate on policy over Brexit. More evidence their handing of Brexit is a total shambles.
“The Conservative party needs to be alert that there is a moderate core of Conservative voters, who voted Remain, and who want to hear the Conservative government speaking above the noise of the Brexiters,” they say. “They do not want the Conservative party to be Ukip-lite, nor to hear that their desire for a negotiated Brexit … is somehow an attempt to delay or simply an expression of Remoaning.
“They want the Conservative leadership to speak for them, too, and Richmond may be a reminder that their votes have another destination if we don’t get this right. That moderate voice is crucial for the party to keep the votes of the middle ground who could lose the Conservative party the next election if they take their votes elsewhere.”
Guardian 4 december
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 04/12/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Jarvi said
Twelve months after storm Desmond – the first of a series of devastating winter storms to batter Britain – the European Commission is still assessing the UK’s bid for aid. It was submitted to the EU Solidarity Fund (EUSF) on September 22...........
You might want to read this as the UK govt dilled and allied until the deadline for submission of intent 12 wekks after teh incident which was Feb 2106 and it states it coudl still take months not 6 weeks,
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-02-25/debates/16022537000004/EUSolidarityFundFlooding
An extract of the govt respose to the question - dated 26 Feb 2016
............I am today announcing that the UK Government will make an application to the EU solidarity fund. The EUSF was set up to respond to major natural disasters.......................... . Once we have confirmed our intent, there is time to consider, with the Commission, the elements of assessment. Following this process, the Commission assesses the application .........................., if it is accepted, proposes an amount of aid to the European Parliament. Once the appropriations become available in the EU budget,.......................When aid is paid out, the affected state is responsible for the implementation, ..................................... which can take several months to complete.
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd said
You might want to read this as the UK govt dilled and allied until the deadline for submission of intent 12 wekks after teh incident which was Feb 2106 and it states it coudl still take months not 6 weeks,
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-02-25/debates/16022537000004/EUSolidarityFundFlooding
An extract of the govt respose to the question - dated 26 Feb 2016
............I am today announcing that the UK Government will make an application to the EU solidarity fund. The EUSF was set up to respond to major natural disasters.......................... . Once we have confirmed our intent, there is time to consider, with the Commission, the elements of assessment. Following this process, the Commission assesses the application .........................., if it is accepted, proposes an amount of aid to the European Parliament. Once the appropriations become available in the EU budget,.......................When aid is paid out, the affected state is responsible for the implementation, ..................................... which can take several months to complete.
ok so heres the rest of the article so that you "know it all"
Last week Italy became the latest country to receive a payout from the fund, set up in 2002 to provide financial assistance to member states when large scale natural disasters occur.
On Wednesday, the European Commission announced a first aid disbursement worth 30 million euros to help Italy’s rebuilding programme following August’s deadly earthquake.
The Commission received the Italian application on November 16 – almost two months after the UK submitted its application.
Portugal, too, had promptly received funds following a request for assistance on September 21 after the forest fires of August.
Last night Ukip leader Paul Nuttall said: “It’s odd that other countries that applied after or at the same time as the UK have received funds.
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Guardian 4 december
Nuff said!
The 'group of senior conservatives' seems to be two ex senior conservatives and two virtually unknowns and the comments are cut about to make an 'interesting' Guardian article.
Pretty useless and booring.
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