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baz- Apologies it was Hugh Jardon and you re-posted his quote.
It will be a problem for the British if the bi-lateral treaties regarding Calais as the UK border don’t continue after Brexit.
Macron has said he will honor it post Brexit but the rest are not committed.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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The UK NHS free treatment for all (EU & non EU) is a shambles. EHIC, imagine going into Harrods with your credit card and being told we don’t have a card machine so take it for free.
I think governments are in business for the short term (average 8 years) and have an attitude ‘’can’t be bothered, leave it to the next lot’’ and on it goes. Their priority is short term vote winning items in order to keep their nose in the trough for as long as possible.
_______________________
NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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Here's Jeremy Hunt's foreword in the latest consultation document re recovery of NHS costs.
"
Foreword
Our NHS is the envy of the world and we have no problem with overseas visitors using it - as long as they make a fair contribution, just as the British taxpayer does. My ambition is that by 2020 no-one will get NHS care for free if they should be paying, just as we tackle the perception of a minority of overseas visitors that the NHS is a form of cheap health insurance.
The NHS has made real progress in identifying and charging liable overseas visitors and migrants (or their home country) for their healthcare in the last three years, more than trebling income identified from £89m to £289m. But there is further to go.
That is why I am setting out plans to charge overseas visitors for NHS care they can currently access for free. We will ensure that for the first time it becomes a legal obligation to pay up-front and in full for any non-urgent treatment on the NHS. We also plan to put an end to overseas visitors from outside the EEA benefitting from free prescriptions, dental care and optical
vouchers without paying the health surcharge or otherwise being exempt from charge.
Of course there will be exceptions, so the most vulnerable groups of overseas visitors to whom we have international welfare obligations or some who are supported by the State will continue
to access free NHS care. We will also protect public health by ensuring that services like the
diagnosis and treatment of infectious diseases remain free to all.
However, at the moment, it is largely only NHS treatment delivered in hospitals (and outside
emergency departments) for which overseas visitors are subject to charge and we need greater
parity across the NHS and to make the rules as simple as possible for patients and NHS staff.
Staff working in the NHS have told us that extending charging across the NHS may be more
difficult in some areas than others. For this reason we will implement these changes in stages
so that we have time and knowledge to work through the practical implications for charging
overseas visitors and migrants for some services. In the case of A&E and ambulance services,
we are still considering the points raised by respondents and exploring the feasibility of
implementing the proposals. We will therefore respond on those points later in the year.
The NHS must get better at identifying patients who should be charged for their healthcare at an
earlier stage of their treatment. This is why we are setting out our aim to not only extend
charging into other areas of healthcare but to ensure that information on a person's eligibility for
free healthcare is captured at their first point of contact with the NHS, regularly verified and
available to other NHS organisations where necessary. This means that we should all expect to
be asked questions that confirm our eligibility for free healthcare from time to time.
We recognise that the Charging Rules are still considered by Trusts to be complex and difficult
to implement and we are therefore committed to providing the support and guidance that the
NHS needs to effectively identify and charge overseas visitors and migrants without
discrimination. NHS Improvement will work intensively over the coming months with Trusts who
have the most potential to recover costs depending on their geography and size. This work will
focus on helping Trusts to improve their cost recovery processes and pilot new innovations that
could make it easier and quicker to take payment when someone is not entitled to free NHS
care.
As we prepare to exit the European Union we will also have to consider the best deal for British
people living and travelling in EU countries and any reciprocal healthcare arrangements we
might put in place for EU nationals visiting the UK. This work is out of scope of this consultation.
Until we leave the EU, the current rules apply and we expect the NHS to maximise the
identification of these patients and collect the necessary information to enable cost recovery.
Charging those who should pay for their treatment is one way we can ensure the NHS is
sustainable for us all in years to come. The NHS should never withhold potentially life-saving
treatment from overseas visitors or migrants because of their inability to pay. But it is right that
people who are not resident here make a fair contribution to the cost of their NHS care and the
plans set out in this document will ensure this happens."
Let's hope therefore that some other form of consultation is taking place in the interim as part of the preparations for Brexit negotiations!!!! :(
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In reply to adds post .Finally the UK government are admitting that problems exist with EU membership..... Maybe if they had listen to the concerns of the Majority of the UK population that voted for OUT in Brexit referendum and implemented changes before the vote was held things would be much different now as people like myself would have voted to stay in .
This message was last edited by windtalker on 02/03/2017.
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good point well made, Windtalker.
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there are pertinent points in Jeremy Hunts comments, posted by Ads;
"The NHS must get better at identifying patients who should be charged for their healthcare at an
earlier stage of their treatment"
"to ensure that information on a person's eligibility for
free healthcare is captured at their first point of contact with the NHS"
" we should all expect to
be asked questions that confirm our eligibility for free healthcare from time to time"
"As we prepare to exit the European Union we will also have to consider the best deal for British
people living and travelling in EU countries and any reciprocal healthcare arrangements we
might put in place for EU nationals visiting the UK. This work is out of scope of this consultation."
"That is why I am setting out plans to charge overseas visitors for NHS care they can currently access for free"
" it is right that people who are not resident here make a fair contribution to the cost of their NHS care and the
plans set out in this document will ensure this happens."
So all these remarks by Jeremy Hunt prove that the NHS is looking at charging non paying residents who are not entitled to free treatment, and by his comments this will include any EU resident based on any Brexit negotiations regarding EU nationals. Lets hope the NHS get on with it soon
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Very easy to do a Google search on this matter, some of the information goes back quite a few years as we know it's not a new problem, the government and the NHS have a menu type price list to show overseas visitors what they are going to be charged, and expected to pay, should they need treatment.
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Windtalker
Yes of course you are right about ehic and residing in spain
That does not stop many who live in spain under the radar using the ehic and abusing the system it is wrong but it happens a lot
Point is it is not just the uk system that is abused
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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so, breaking news, the House of lords has just voted to allow existing EU residents within the UK to remain with full rights , and additionally expects the EU to set likewise regulations for UK expat residents in the EU during brexit negotiations. It will be interesting what the EU has to say, and how this develops.
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The EU has never said there was any consideration or suggestion to revoke the rights of UK nationals living within the EU It was Mrs May who disgracefullly made them a bargining chip by refusing to acknowege their right to remain from day one.
The Lords decision is morally and ethically right and it should stand.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickey, i totally agree with your sentiment.
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The House of Lords dealt the first major blow to Article 50 last night. The House of Lords voted by 356 to 256 for an amendment to unilaterally allow EU nationals the right to stay in the UK after Brexit, regardless of whether the same rights are granted to British residents in the EU.
The overwhelming majority of people in the United Kingdom would support the rights of EU nationals to remain in the United Kingdom, just as they would support British nationals' right to remain in other EU member states. However, by seeking to make this a condition of Brexit before the Prime Minister has even triggered Article 50, seriously hinders her negotiating hand.
Theresa May made an offer to Merkel on reciprocal residency rights very early on - Merkel said no. Yet the Remainers have not made the slightest criticism of Merkel for "using people as bargaining chips".
Remainers in the unelected House of Lords are not voting for the rights of EU citizens to remain in the UK out of principle, but in order to attempt to delay the Brexit process. Some people, including Peers, simply cannot accept the outcome of the referendum.
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Jarvi, the hope of the House of lords, according to you is to stall Article 50, but this decision will not make any real difference, as in your words, "the unelected House of Lords" do not enact legally enforcable mandates they are in effect the conciense of the elected Parliament, due to their "unelected" status. It will not make any real delay in the process of Article 50 or the use of people as "bargaining chips"
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ads a good post ‘’ Here's Jeremy Hunt's foreword in the latest consultation document re recovery of NHS costs.’’
But why are we so many years behind everyone else, even the backward countries seem to be in front of us. Is it the British arrogant attitude that we are superior and know better than others, when we clearly are not and do not.
_______________________
NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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it wasn't according to me it was according to a Labour supporter Brendan Chilton, The main point of my post was to dismiss MickeyFinns statement that Theresa May was using people as bargaining chips. Why should we unilaterally give them the right to remain? What about the criminals amongst them who commit crimes in the UK, should they remain? As everything it isn't as clear cut as it seems. Also Mickey and his mates are hoping that Brexit won't happen.
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Jarvi you make some rather inflammatory statements, this time you say, "What about the criminals amongst them who commit crimes in the UK, should they remain? " even now, as we are members of the EU, by and large we dont allow an EU criminal to remain on UK soil. If the offence is commited here in the UK they are subject to english law, and likely incarceration, and usually if a serious offence, on completion of their sentence, returned to their home country.
If a UK immigrant is wanted in their home country for crimes, they are usually apprehended here, and after a court hearing relating to deportation, are quickly returned. Most weeks a prison plane arrives at Stanstead airport from Poland , for instance, to return such people to their country for trial and sentence.
This means we do not "unilaterally give them the right to remain". It seems its more clear cut than you are prepared to admit, another case of Fake News which you are attempting to spread
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Fake news from the Independent newspaper below
More than 13,000 foreign criminals are awaiting deportation from the UK, including thousands of European citizens, according to a report by MPs, which warns that the failure to remove a population "the size of a small town" could undermine public confidence in the UK’s EU membership.
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Javi - Theresa May made an offer to Merkel on reciprocal residency rights very early on - Merkel said no. Yet the Remainers have not made the slightest criticism of Merkel for "using people as bargaining chips".
No Merkle said no to ANY negotiations until article 50 is triggered. She was following the EU collective policy agreements. It was May and always has been May who is using the rights of citizens as a weapon.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Jeremy Hunt can say what he likes to the voters about charging foreigners to use our NHS because this is exactky what we want to hear, after all it sounds sensible and logical.
IF a big IF the NHS does not have a viable charging system within its operation, Hunts comments may be easier to say than do.
Ask yourselves
Why have we've not been following such a sensible approach previously IF we have or had the ability.
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Wrong Miky - You've been caught out again...
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