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Yes I agree everyone is entitled to their political opinions. However there is a difference, if you wish your ideas to be taken seriously, between quoting a person or institution as being the only source of wisdom without arguing a balanced alternative.
The only political agena I am supporting on here is for the UK to remain a member of the European Union as far as politically possible after Brexit. I accept Brexit will take place in one form or another.
So for example is you say Migration Watch has a particular opinion about immigration you ought in my view to clarify why they arrived at that decision. You also should make it clear which side of the political divide they inhabit. The reader then can make up their own mind if their statements hold any validity without trawling the web to discover it.
Likewise Patrick Minford who in my view lost all serious credibility when he campaigned with UKIP and Co. to leave the EU. Academics in my opinion should remain firmly above the political divide and independent if they want their views to carry any weight
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 01/12/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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No Mickeyfinn you have misread what I said. I suggest the need to look to all options before making judgements, to be willing to review all evidence and suggested solutions and retain an open mind without considering "which side of the political divide" they sit. IMHO, If someone dismisses a practical and fair solution just because they sit in another "political camp" so to speak, closes their mind to compromise and practical solutions.
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OK ads perhaps it's the journalist in me but if you want readers to take your options seriously it is more acceptable to write thus:-
The right wing pressure group Migration Watch wrote……………………….. or the right of center and leave campaigning economist Patrick Minford said ………………………………..
That then clearly indicates to the reader where the organization or individual stands. I accept you have no intent to mislead but others could see it differently.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Micky
I think the reality is
If you ask 5,economists how to make love, you would probably get six varied opinions.
If you ask an accountant how to make love, he would probably ask what the APR was?
No different in forecasts or opinions, no one knows where the economy would be IF we stayed in a stagnant and intransigent EU despite requests from many to change.
Yes of course integration, workers rights, consumer protection etc are all important in the 21st century and these will not change but no matter how you look at it, involving 28 countries of varied economic stages is a recipe for disaster for some and this is starting to unravel throughout Europe.
It does not mean there will be NO cooperation or movement of labour, it just allows the UK to make decisions on behalf of its citizens and voters.
Brexit, could be the biggest mistake in UK history and in your opinion is, however a majority all be it small, decided that the UK needs a new beginning. Isn't it right to follow their lead, the works is NOT flat, it is not going to end, business and trade will continue as it did for hundreds of years prior to the EEC.
This country never had it so good in the 1960s NOT after we joined the 6 in the EEC when mass immigration between EU countries was not imagined.
Immigration numbers from the EU tobJunecreleased today suggest no slow down and that many are coming to find work NOT because they have been offered work.
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Political affinities.
The parties in the EU Parliament have to make associations to get their point of view accross, both the Labour and more recently the Conservative party have had problems with the policies of the groups they associate with. What you are trying to say is similar to saying that I have the same views as you because I vote for the same party. Clearly nonsense, I might not even agree with most of the views of the party I vote for, just considering them the better of two evils. The pot may be black but still useful for brewing tea.
Patrick Minford
I think your problem with Patrick Minford is that he has a track record of being right.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 01/12/2016.
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Lol, I like the pun tteedd, keep it light.
😀
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So let's get this straight
Because Patrick Minford is right, that means he is wrong, right?
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I watched the you tube videos about Minford. He is not an economist, he is an idealog. He sees the EU has created three problems for Britian.
They are protectionist. He believes that in a frictionless world of no tariffs the 'world price' would prevail. He admits that this means that only the most efficient industries in a country could prevail. He does not see the UK automotive industry as efficient and therefore it and all its jobs should go. He does not believe in Intellectual Property. If you create something and invested a lot in it (like research for a new drug or treatment) and someone else can make it cheaper that is good for consumers and that someone copied it (infringed your rights) is not important. I wonder how he would respond if I plagiarized his book. He is against workers rights because they add to the cost of products and his vision/theory is that the lowest cost is the best cost. He is opposed to environmental concerns (climate change and protection for our air, water and land) for the same reason. These are all things he has said himself.
The EU has too many rules. Odd this one because he wants to substitute UK rules for EU rules even though they might be the same, but he does not want employment rules of envirnomental rules. I would suggest he is obsessed with the 'cheapest price theory' which goes against what many have said they are in support of. You know who, the ones that say it is not just about the money it is about quality of life and social cohesion.
He is opposed to immigration. He is very blatant about it. If they add value to the UK we should have them but otherwise we should refuse them. He makes a big point that unskilled workers come in and lower the wages of local people. I don't know how he can balance this argument against his own economic view that the lowest price is the 'only' solution. By his definition we should all be replaced with cheaper workers no matter where they come from. Of course that would not fly with UKIP so he just allowed himself to be used and was on both sides of his own argument.
Sorry, but after listening to an hour of Minford I came to the conclusion that he is not a real economist, just an old man trying for one last chance to publish another book. I could not take anything he said seriously. It was like reading some of Mao's writtings when he told the people the solution to all their problems was to do nothing but grow rice and make steel. That did not turn out very well. But when the people threw off that belief their country became wealthy nd continues to do so as it engages the world.
This message was last edited by perrypower1 on 01/12/2016.
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The UK is going to explode one day if the powers at be do not get migration in to the UK under control the UK is taking in over one third of a million migrants this year and the number is getting higher by the day has anyone on the Brexit thread got any ideas on how to stop this mass uncontrollable migration with over 90% coming from the EU.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 01/12/2016.
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windtalker
mass uncontrollable migration with over 90% coming from the EU.
See, when you make things up like then it makes your other bits not even worth reading:
The Guardian The record level of immigration at the time of the Brexit vote was driven by a historically high inflow of 284,000 EU citizens, almost matching the number of those from outside Europe (289,000).
The Telegraph The Office for National Statistics said an unprecedented 284,000 EU citizens arrived in the UK in the year to June, which covers a period up to and just after the referendum almost matching the 289,000 from outside the EU.
And the Mail, and the Express and the Independent. So if 284,000 of 573,000 is 90% I'm glad you don't do my tax returns.
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teedd wrote:
Patrick Minford
I think your problem with Patrick Minford is that he has a track record of being right.
Such as the poll tax? He is credited with that bright idea. 
The migration figures published today.
The record 650,000 level of immigration in the year to June 2016 was made up of 284,000 EU citizens coming to live and work in Britain, 289,000 coming from outside Europe and 77,000 Britons returning to live in the UK. The most common reason they came to Britain was to work.
Brexit will not reduce migration from Asia and elsewhere. Net migration also indicates when work contracts end people leave.
Marc Stears, of the New Economics Foundation, said: “This isn’t bad news for the economy: to take one example, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility’s forecast, a possible reduced immigration as a consequence of ending free movement – Brexit – would translate into lower GDP and lower tax receipts, resulting in an increase of public sector debt by £16bn to 2020-21. The fact immigration hasn’t gone down means more money to spend on things like the NHS, pensions and welfare.”
Quote The Guardian 1 december.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Boball stop reading the Beno and Dandy and start reading( Migration watch UK) net migration was over one third of a million this year and is rising by the day .the majority are economic migrants from the EU around 90%..
This message was last edited by windtalker on 01/12/2016.
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Rot. You are taking the net migration figure (335,000) and making the gross EU figure of 284,000 without taking into account the amount that have left.
I think I'd rather believe the ONS than Migration Watch and even that shows (if you've learned how to read) that migration from non-EU countries exceeded that from the EU, both gross and net. The figures are as in my post. 284,000 from EU and 289,000 from outside gross migration. Net migration from the EU was 146,000 out of a total net of 335,000.
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The UK would consider making payments to the EU after it leaves the bloc to secure the best possible access to the EU single market, Brexit Secretary David Davis has said. Mr Davis told MPs the "major criterion" was getting the best access for goods and services to the European market. "And if that is included... then of course we would consider it."
The Brexit secretary also defended Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, who according to Sky News had privately told four EU ambassadors he backed free movement.
Meanwhile in the House of Lords, Labour's Lord Liddle, a former adviser to Tony Blair, called for Britain to remain in the European single market after Brexit. Opening a debate on the UK's future relationship with the EU, Lord Liddle branded Brexit the "worst disaster for the UK since appeasement" in the 1930s.
Plaid Cymru's Lord Wigley urged the government not to take the UK out of the single market which, he said, would be "the kiss of death" for farmers in Wales.
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Aren't we the people of the UK lucky that we live in a Democracy and not a Dictatorship.the Majority of the UK voted OUT, emigration seems to be the reason for the Brexit does anyone have any ideas on how to control it .Boris Jonson was misquoted by saying he was in favour of free movement by the press .what he said was he is in favor of free movement with no right to stay.
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Such as the poll tax? He is credited with that bright idea.
By You?
You mean the community charge?
We were talking about economic forecasting.
Local government spending and taxation still needs sorting. Maggy chose the wrong tax and John Major did not have the balls and cancelled the Community Charge. The easiest thing would have been to make it a precept on income tax (depending on what your local councils spent), then everyone would have had an interest in what their local government was spending.
But we are getting away from Brexit. Perhaps if there had been a poll tax to pay our EU subscription we might have left long ago.
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Because Patrick Minford is right, that means he is wrong, right?
Correct, like he usually is!
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windtalker you just made that up. Four separate Ambassdores confirmed what he said. Mind you two weeks ago he swore up and down that Free Movement was not one of the four pillars of the EU. I think he is going to switch sides again...
tteedd, no he is credited with the Poll Tax idea by history...just have a look. His forecasting by the way says if we Brexit with no trade deals (at all, none worldwide) our standard of living will immediately rise by 8%. But. He accepts that a lot of people will not have jobs and there will be no job security and there will be no environmental protection covering polution on Power Generation. He does not support the notion of Climate Change. He says food prices will drop by 20%. He refuses to respond to what that would mean for UK farmers.
This message was last edited by perrypower1 on 01/12/2016.
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does anyone have any ideas on how to control it
NIE?
Residentia.
Bank checks.
Make sure everyone has the means to support themselves and medical insurance before granting entry.
Visa's to be obtained before travel.
Certainty of deportation if found to be in the country illegally. All applications and appeals to be made in country of origin.
I'm sure we could think of a few more if we tried.
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just have a look
Where?
The options for the Community Charge were in a white paper.
Although as I have already commented this has nothing to do with economic forecasting or Brexit.
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