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Hugh you forget George Clooney Carney is CANADIAN hes only going to be Governor for a few years then back home and we will be buying all things CANADIAN a lot of what the EU produces is CRAP anyway I will be more DISAPPOINTED if we lose SCOTISH goods to be honest FRENCH cars CRAP GERMAN cars to EXPENSIVE for most we GROW the finest VEGETABLES and FRUITS have the bets FISH stocks the FINEST cattle and WELSH lamb proper BEER must I go on
The UK will have a rough few years and anyone my AGE wont really see any BENEFIT but in 10 years we will be NO1 again Im CONVINCED of it and if Im WRONG it wont matter as I will be 6FT under in a WOODEN BOX
Love Hugh xxx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Yep, probably far more of a success story than the good old US of A.
But having received masses of funding from the allies after the war it did give those family run businesses a great leg up, but yes their strategy and their relationship between employers and unions has been legendary and yes industrial wages are not huge.
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BigAl2015
I just re-read my post, and the answers to your questions are there in black and white.
Disagree on greying demographics? OK. I get your point that its a snowball effect. And I agree with you, believe it or not. But this is a classic case of kicking the can down the road. Today, without population growth, regardless of where it comes from, I ask you one simple question: where will the tax receipts come from with more and more workers retiring?
You already tried to answer that one with "...current unemployed..." OK, but I already told you that the UKs current unemployment is 4.9%, which is a near record low, and we DO have the highest participation rate ever. So how can your suggestion be possible? Have a look at the Office of National Statistics, and as reported on the BBC website.
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EU bureaucratic intransigence - The UK voted in back in the 70's, and likewise other countries had their accession processes. Since then, there has been a political apparatus in place. Without going into huge detail, one part of the european project has been to try to prevent another world war from occuring; so far so good.
Extreme radical elements? Sure. These come along every now and then. A little closer to home we had Guy Fawkes. That storm was weathered.
Is Brexit the solution? No. We had not only Guy Fawkes in the 1600's, way before the EU was even a twinkle in a euro-pollies eye, but we also managed to have 2 world wars as well, way before the EU. Brexit or no Brexit, EU or no EU, there will always be some scumbag who will blame some sector of the community for all the ills of the home nation (I'm speaking specifically of Adolf Hitler here; you know the rest).
Its a bit worrying that in a time of unbelievable prosperity, which is gained through trade, that we seem to collectively (and I mean both the EU and the UK) be wanting to tear down the very mechanism that contributed so much to our wealth.
I note the rest of your points, and they do relate to a lot of problems in other countries as well. Would it make you feel any better if I said "Yeah, but they're more screwed than us", when you look at unemployment in Greece, Italy, and Spain for starters? Spanish unemployment is sitting around 20%, we have 4.9%, which is nearly a record low here, and yet some people here keep banging on about "immigrants taking our jobs". It is almost the single most pig-headed position I have ever heard, repeated as often as needed, so that lies become truth.
Have a look at the official unemployment stats if you dont believe me:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment/timeseries/mgsx
Sometimes I just despair at what I perceive as unrelenting xenophobia and racism.
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rob_j1,
Get real rob,the UK is just a tiny insignificant country (albeit having the EU's third largest population), the pound has collapsed (albeit only being only 5 cents lower than it stood at 3 years ago, when it was far from collapse), the UK stock market will be similar to that of a third world country, (well I'm still waiting), our huge unemployment statistics of 4.9% are one of the largest in the EU (really?).
The reality is that a majority of UK voters didn't cast their votes in order to give expats in Spain an easier ride, and if as most of you guys wish, you had been given a vote, it wouldn't have made any difference to the result. Just tighten your belts, like the rest of us, and wait for the exit strategy instead of pre-guessing it.
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Brexit is drifting farther and farther away; soon it will just be a memory.
Leavers are spending all their time convincing themselves that they made the right decision when they voted "out". Why? If it was the right choice why do hou have to argue you were right?
But they have no idea what, when, who Brexit it is. Absolutely no constructive ideas offered on this forum, and none from the people in power. Desperation is setting in where leavers are shouting 'Hard Brexit' which means we just walk away from the EU and hope for the best. Arrogant folk are saying the UK will get fantastic deals from the RoW. Others are saying well it really won't affect me as I'll be dead by then. All of them are saying things are going to get worse before they get better. The getting better part has gone from being two years away, to three to five years away to ten years now and some are even saying it will be a generation. Not such a good deal then is it>
Xenophobia is bouncing off the walls. Leavers claim that they were not against migration, just uncontrolled migration from EU. They say we should get the best people we can and should look to the Commonwealth first. Oh yes you did. That is what you said. Now we are having a round of Carney bashing, because having got the best person for the job he comes from a Commonwealth country. We are bloody lucky to have him. Leavers seem to hate him. And the comments bear out that it is racist hate. If you ain't born in britian yous are the enemy (sic).
Democracy in under threat; a non-binding advisory opinion offered by the public is being treated as if it was an act of Parliament; as if it was the law.
It is impossible to see how Article.50 will be enacted before a General Election is called.
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Brexit is going to cost Britain dear. Like all divorces it's the financial settlement that is likely to concentrate minds the most. Perhaps when it does the Government may swallow a little harder and make some compromises because the bill is going to be huge.
A financial cost just when the UK can least afford it and whilst it's running a huge budget deficit, printing Sterling that's going down the toilet and facing stagflation in years to come and denial of single market access.
The article 50 talks will be about unwinding EU membership: the EU will press Britain to pay its share of unpaid bills and liabilities; the UK is expected to seek a share of EU assets.
The EU’s unpaid bills totalled €218bn in 2015. These are IOUs that have paid for motorways, bridges and other economic development projects in poorer regions of Europe. Unpaid bills have mounted up over the last 15 years, as the EU has gone on a spending spree, following the enlargement to central and eastern Europe.
Another problem will be agreeing the UK’s share of the EU’s €59bn pension liability, which guarantees income for 1,730 retired British officials. EU sources say the UK will be on the hook for its share of all pension liabilities, not only those of British officials.
Guardian 14 October.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Destry
Some parts of your post, I've understood your intended point, but disagree with you -> The stock market in particular. The reasons its up, include that the pound has devalued, so its cheaper for foreigners to buy shares here, and that many of the larger companies in the FTSE are large AMerican firms, whose $US earnings now appear much larger, again, because of the currency. The profits get repatriated either to offshore countries, or back to the US, so the profits are neither here nor there for the UK.
I don't understand some of your post: "our huge unemployment statistics of 4.9% are one of the largest in the EU (really?)." Sorry, but what are you saying here??
FInally, I get the impression you think because I disagree with whats happening that I'm living in Spain; I live in south London.
In case its not clear, the reason I think its a bad idea, is because economically there is already fallout from the pound, and this will find its way into many more aspects of British life, once suppliers have passed whatever currency hedging dates they had bound into their contracts.
The recent bashing of Carney is a case in point. The guy is telling it like it is, and yet some people are almost branding him the anti-christ for stating a simple fact, and he's being pilloried for being Canadian?
Migrant = liar???
Is this what British society has come to, now that we're circling the drain and the rats are turning on each other?
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By heck, R2-D2 and C-3PO are in full rant today, the sad thing is that they probably believe the rubbish that they post, racist hatred against Mark Carney for god's sake, poor old Prince Philip will no doubt be next, Beware of Greeks and all that.
Beam me up you jock b.....d.
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Rob,
You are wrong on all counts, read again and then look up 'sarcasm', this was not aimed at you by the way, now brush the chips off your shoulders and try to think laterally.
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Rob
No one suggested Carney as an immigrant or liar, I merely questioned his professionalism, warning the UK yet again that imported goods from EU would get more expensive due to the fall in the pound.
Yes this is true but once the UK is free to buy produce and other products from SA, Australia, NZ, Indonesia, Africa, South America and Caribbean I am sure many of these countries would be only too pleased to provide with goods st competitive prices, boosting their economies.
Globalisation, sees all sorts of products and consumer items being available from a wide range of countries.
The EU is not the only place that grows fruit and veg and makes things, it just happens to be the place we have done lots of business with because of the EU agreements and regulations.
Open your minds a little, Remoaners.
Had Greece exited the Euro when it had a chance, it would have suffered a short term problem but soon after a devaluation of the Drachma would have made them more competitive again.
If only other countries had the sense and foresight to concentrate on their own economies rather that strengthen the German model, many goods and services would be cheaper.
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Destry
Apologies, your comments were too subtle for me.
Hugh
I get your point. You may well be right, but there are a few questions I would pose to you:
1. For those countries mentioned, how long would it take before a trade deal was in place?
2. If you were a producer in, say, South Africa, and you could sell your products into a market of 500 million people (lets call it 436 million assuming the UK does in fact leave), would you rather chase that market, or would you go through the process of splitting your distribution model and potentially change your accounting systems to cater to a smaller market of 64 million? You probably would, but would want to be getting a better deal than via the EU to make it viable, and to cover the higher distribution costs. So if you're after a better deal than via the EU, how does the UK go about getting a better deal for its domestic consumers, if it is now in competition with a trading block that has significantly more market share?
I'll totally admit I'm out of my depth on that last point. I'm sure there are all kinds of things that go on which are so far above my pay grade it isnt funny. But to me, I'd be curious to know how the UK would get a better deal than what the largest economy in the world (the combined EU) can provide.
Interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Edited to add: The UK already does business with the countries you mentioned. Check your local supermarket, and you'll find wine etc from all those countries, as just one example. So those countries wont be jumping at the chance to do business with us, because thats already the case. The real question is, can the UK do a deal thats *better*, now that its made itself a significantly smaller market, presumably with new requirements in terms of customs, border control, paperwork, and associated costs, and has a consequently smaller amount of leverage it can apply.
This message was last edited by rob_j1 on 16/10/2016.
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It's getting worse for the outers.
Nicola Sturgeon has insisted that a hard Brexit would amount to the UK government breaking the promises it made during the Scottish referendum, and that such a departure from the EU would lead to another poll on independence.
Given that Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU it's likely the vote for independence would win this time as a protest against Brexit. England would then be faced with a Scotexit and the independent country could become an EU member in their own right.
Mrs May of course says she won't allow the vote this time. A reaction certain to infuriate the Scots and push them over the edge. Northern Island also voted by a large majority to remain in the EU. How long will it be before they realise their future in the EU would be guaranteed by a united Ireland?
There is also some evidence to suggest many former outers are having second thoughts about the economic impact of Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/15/new-alliances-oppose-hard-brexit
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 16/10/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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As Remainer arguments get more cogent the arguments of Leavers deteriorates further into name calling and silliness.
Bye bye Brexit
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Perrypower1 you are called a Remoner by the Brexit Outs ,and like Sturgeon you are delusional democracy has spoken live with it or it will make you very ill. ,l myself have have only come across one person that voted in and that was only because he thought Lidels and Aldis would close if we left the EU.l kid you not.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 16/10/2016.
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perrypower 1 obviously doesn't count calling folk that disagree with him arrogant and racist as being in any way wrong, well he wouldn't would he?
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REMOANERS that's all water under the BRIDGE we are leaving the EU wether you like it or NOT
WHAT happens HAPPENS its out of our CONTROL the electorate voted
YOU are just working yourselves UP getting in a TIZZ posting
DO what I DID left my own Little EU this year and LIVING THE DREAM
I SUGGEST you grow some CAHONES and do the SAME
Love Hugh xxx
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 16/10/2016.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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What are CAHONES? All that time in Spain wasn't wasted, then.
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The polite definition is " Courage or boldness, as in the expression "tener cojones" 
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