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I have a plan "Leave the EU SSR"
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How predictable - nothing if any substance or worth a discussion from the brexiters just the same old .......
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd1966 how would you as a Remoner put a stop to the massive uncontrolled emigration from mainly eastern Europe ,since the referendum emigration is up one third according to migration watch ( half a million ) per year where are all these emigrant's going to live and get work.
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Windtalker initially in 2 easy steps
1. Overhaul radically the uk benefits system in total. No freebies for everyone
2. Get the uk citizens back to work and off the dole
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd1966 Lewisham in London has 35 unemployed people chasing one job ,and l thought the emigrants where coming to the UK to find work not claim dole ,so I take it that the way you would put a stop to emigration would be to stop DSS benefit.system.
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Benefits are not just dole but in work benefits need to be scrapped
The uk allegedly have the 5th biggest economy in the world So time for businesses to pay the wages and not have the tax payer propping up the economy
Most EU immigrants come for work and as many uk citizens get their wages topped up by the tax payer of course it is attractive.
Yes they also get dole if they don't work but that is the same as uk citizens do for doing nothing
Stop the freebies for all
Everytime I go to London I see many businesses advertising jobs bars shops hotels factories
Plenty of jobs advertised on job websites across the uk
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Referendums are the nearest you can get to pure democracy. Each elector gets to vote on the issue.
Referendums work well in Switzerland.
And yes capital punishment is one issue where the electorate is uniquely qualified to chose. Issues like this are not technically difficult to understand.
With modern communications it should become much easier for each elector to have the facts and make an informed decision.
On many issues the electorate are much more able to judge. Our representatives unfortunately are not representative of our society.
I waited 25 years to have my say on the EU. My MP would have for 'in' in parliament (and did vote 'in' in the referendum), but now he acknowledges he was wrong.
Trust the people.
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Tteed.
The one area I disagree on is that modern communications allow the public to have the facts. We had a campaign of referendum facts and I would say, almost without fear of contradiction, that modern communications were twisted to make the facts impossible to see.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Brian
Thats because one mans facts are another mans misconceptions.
We Still have lies, damned lies and statistics, take your choice.
I think the suggestion referred to the only fact, which is, there is so much information out there, how do we determine what is fact or what is fiction?
Did a virgin really give birth to the baby Jesus? Fact or fiction? Not just modern communication.
The point is, you read you digest, you discuss and debate, then you make as informed a judgement taking into account everything you have heard.
Referendum, do at least permit every single vote to count, unlike elections.
Lets give each and every one of the 35 mill the credit for voting as their conscience dictated and stop whinging about distortion of facts.
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Referendums are a flawed system of democracy because it reduces complex questions down to a yes or no vote. The media assist that process depending on their own particular bias, not what is in the best interests of the people of an entire nation.
In the EU referendum the vote was simply to leave the EU. Not how Britain would leave or what kind of relationship the UK should have with Europe afterwards.
On this thread and elsewhere there is little suggested by Brexiteers on how Britain should move forward. That indicates to me no thought was given by anyone about what sort of trading and political process the country should have with Europe in the future. Many simply suggest a complete divorce without any consideration on what economic damage that would do to the country.
If the subject had been a parliamentary decision a post Brexit plan would have been part of the decision making process. In other words the exit plan would have been in place before the decision to leave was taken.
When Bush and Blair invaded Iraq the only decision they made was to invade. No thought was given to what would happen afterwards. The subsequent catastrophe is plain for everyone to see.
The Brexit referendum is a similar process. No one has the first idea on how to proceed because of a single issue decision was taken. It is actually like putting the cart before the horse.
Now the British government is trapped into doing some sort of compromise deal with the EU in an effort to satisfy the gun to the head process of a referenda decision. No way to run a nation.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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What facts about the implications of brexit were available during the campaign that allowed a sensible debate
We still have no facts on or any idea what is going to happen
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Micky you are still harping on about the Referendum being not fair and undemocratic .The government was forced in to calling a referendum ,simply because they new that uncontrolled emigration was a massive strain on the UK public services that are in place to serve the population of the UK not the population of the EU ,but this is not the main reason we voted for Brexit ,she David Cameron went over to Brussels and beg them for policy changes to the present system and the answer he got was that the UK must provide the same services and benefits to everyone in the EUROPE as if they where UK subjects and we will not allow any changes until your system is bank rupt ,this proved to the UK that we are no longer in control that is why the Majority voted out they want control back ,since the Brexit uncontrollable emigration in to the has risen by one third to half a million a year mainly from Eastern European countries so if any can come with a answer on how the UK can stay in the EU and control emigration get in touch with Mrs T May she is all ears
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Yes tadd all had to listen to was statistics. That was from all directions. Statistics are not facts.
Hugh. Lies and statistics. A really knowledgeable bloke once said that.
If you sit on a chair and place one foot in a bowl of boiling water and the other foot in a bowl of ice, statistically you will be comfortable.
Reality is that in time you will lose both your feet.
The statistics we were fed during the brexit debate at the time reminded me of that saying.
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Best wishes, Brian
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I agree. Everything about project fear was wrong....
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I note that the media has castigated Nigel Farage for his participation in the Old Surrey Barstow and West Kent Hunt, he was culpable in a drag lure being torn to pieces by hounds, the nasty sod will no doubt shoot those poor clay pigeons for even more enjoyment, what a beast.
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This message was last edited by Destry on 27/12/2016.
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Destry.
I think farage would prefer to tear foxes apart and shoot live birds, which I'm sure he shoots anyway.
Because both of the 'events' you describe are pointless things to do, but involve dressing up as though it looks important and convincing people it's right to do, Nigel will be ideal for those things.
From 'up north' where I am, and living among our rural friends, you are allowed to take sensible measures to protect your livestock from foxes, most of which include fencing and keeps. Dressing up in red coats and taking a pack of hounds to catch a fox, removing its tail and smearing someone with its blood, is pretty stupid at best.
Thats what sensible people think anyway. Brexit wont change that.
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Best wishes, Brian
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So it wasn't a Drag Hunt then, you really are the forum rural expert, what with you living 'up north'.
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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
THANK YOU.
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windtalker
the problem with DC's proposal to the EU was he wanted special treatment for UK citzens and to discriminate against EU citizens this was the main issue the EU had
What should be done is change the enitre UK benefist system and operate similar to other member states such as Spain. Or get the EU member states to adopt the UK's system across the entire EU
You seem to stuck on this idea that the enitre poulation of the EU could come to the UK in reality thsi will never happne and most do not wish to leave their own homes.
As said before if the entire popilation of NI, Wales, Scotland, Yorkshire, Northumberland, Cornwall, Norfolk etc. decided to move to London (they have full freedom to do so) similar problems would arise but guess what it will not happen and is just as ridiculous statement as your statement of the entire popultion of the EU movimng to UK.
Yes many who want to work in London and come from other parts of the UK do and guess what they take jobs, housing, school places all from locals and cause massive infrastructure porblems
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Destry.
Yes I got it, you were talking about drag hunting. And about Nigel farage, and about shooting clay pigeons.
Perhaps you focussed too much on the 'up north' bit and missed the pointless bit.
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Best wishes, Brian
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