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My knowledge of the French benefit system is only from reading about it so I'm sure that your knowledge is superior Micky. Would have to agree that most migrants would find both countries attractive.
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Everything collapses given time, The Roman Empire, The Third Reich, The Soviet Union, The British Empire, to name but a few, why should the EU be any different?
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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GB45
How would a collapsed EU stop immigration into any country?
Immigration of refugees is not an EU problem it is a worldwide humanitarian issue
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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It won't. My observations were only about the EU, although I do think that it is an EU problem and unless we can arrive at an EU solution that all countries can live with, individual countries will go their own way.....Oh, I already think there are.
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I wonder does much of this come down to an awareness by citizens from other cultures (since the advent of the internet) of how the development of Western civilised culture (that has taken years to develop and nurture), has been denied them by their leaders, who for whatever reason have chosen another path that denies them their freedoms, that has placed little emphasis on the need for fairness, inclusivity, respect for minorities, rational thought and accountability ( all relatively speaking as there is still much to "tweek" in our own systems!)?
And now these citizens feel the only way to achieve this, having lost everything through conflict and war, is to aspire to that culture, but at an unrealistic pace that is fraught with all the practical difficulties that we are currently witnessing.
So long as their leaders refuse to listen to their own citizens aspirations, nor be willing to see the benefits from a more civilised Western structure that adopts to a degree a disciplined way of life that abides by a common rule of law and workable social structures, the longer this chaos will continue.
To pose a threat in the form of abusing existing Western social structures that have taken years to develop, or to try and blackmail Westernised countries into submission, will only alienate, and has the potential to decimate all the good work and benefits and humanitarian psyche that accrue from a more civilised way of life.
Like it or not, humanitarian aid and planning is essential in this scenario, but of equal importance is a review of the freedom of movement and requirement to consider a common points based system across European nations, together with adequate protection of all social structures and a willingness to reform.
All essential elements if the EU is to survive the existing migration crisis.
This message was last edited by ads on 10/03/2016.
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Great post ads. I entirely agree.
Heph wrote:
Everything collapses given time, The Roman Empire, The Third Reich, The Soviet Union, The British Empire, to name but a few, why should the EU be any different?
It’s very simple the regimes you mention were derived by coercion and conquest. The EU was created by and with the consent of the people and it's governments, elected democratically.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 10/03/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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David Cameron is accusing Brexit campaigners of treating the potential loss of jobs and economic damage if the country votes to leave the EU as "a price worth paying".
In a speech to car workers, the Prime Minister will say key figures in the Leave campaign have conceded that withdrawal from the EU would lead to "dislocation, uncertainties and costs".
"For those who advocate leaving, lost jobs and a dented economy might be collateral damage, or a price worth paying," he is expected to say.
"For me, they're not. They never are because there's nothing more important than protecting people's financial security. That's why I believe we are better off in."
Oop's.....Just as another 2500 lose UK jobs with energy company.
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Very true Micky, however one democratically elected member may democratically elect to leave, as may others according to their views on how fair and democratic the EU is.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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GB45
Am I missing something or just confused
I think that the EU might collapse unless something is done to stop the migrants crossing into Greece.
then you said in answer to my question
It won't
recognise I did say any country in my question - so do you think EU will or won't collapse unless something is done to stop the migrants crossing into Greece. 
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd, you said that a collapsed Europe won't stop migration into any country and I agreed with you that it wouldn't, but there again I don't know any more than any else. I just think that a huge influx of people into the EU will result in individual countries securing their own borders and to hell with the EU. If the EU can't speak and negotiate as a whole what's the point of it?
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'there's nothing more important than protecting people's financial security.'
Politicians never worried about the loss of manufacturing jobs due to increased competition from France, Germany and Italy when we went in why should we beleive this to be sincere now?
Nor did they worry about increased food prices or destruction of our fishing industry. Or the affects on Farmers in Australia or New Zealand or even subsistence farmers in third world Commonwealth countries.
The truth is that the EEC/EU is a political project - You either beleive in it or you do not.
I could beleive in it if it was just the European Parliament with the requisite powers for top level government. No Commision, no Council of ministers, no meddling in everyday affairs, no meddling in national government and no corruption.
Trouble is what we have will never be like that. It is taxfree jobs for superannuated members of the political class. It spends our money, makes mountains of unneccesary legislation and is corrupt to the core. It suits countries that have endemic corruption and ignor the rules (but Greece still became a cropper).
But, even if you do believe in eventually sorting it out, the future (another 40 years or so?) for the UK, will probably be to become a quaint offshore island of the EU superstate. Beefeaters and nice countyside (if we have not built over it for mass immigration). Financial and commercial hub Frankfurt? or perhaps Brussels, Industry nil.
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Mickeyfinn, with regard to
"Like it or not, humanitarian aid and planning is essential in this scenario, but of equal importance is a review of the freedom of movement and requirement to consider a common points-based system across European nations, together with adequate protection of all social structures and a willingness to reform.
All essential elements if the EU is to survive the existing migration crisis."
do you consider the above as a future wish list, or do you consider it to be an essential commitment from the EU Commission prior to the British referendum vote?
Why, for instance, could a points based system not be addressed and incorporated as part of their emergency strategy/review/refinement of the mechanics/confirmation of adherence to international law, etc to adequately contain the migrant crisis given the urgency involved?... which is due to be agreed upon by the end of next week, is it not?)
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Guys, guys, guys! This is really becoming a bit of a surrealistic rant rather than a genuine debate. Look at the bright side. When the 'In's' have their day, and they will because there is too much uncertainty to do otherwise, we can all retire to Spain.
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Or it may be said there is too much uncertainty to commit to remain!
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Better the devil you know...
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Devil it may very well be, however I can't claim to either know or understand it, I won't be there to see it, but what it will be like in 25 years time, if indeed it still exists, would be very interesting.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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I will take the final say on this subject
Einstein said madness is doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result
Time for a change follow me once more into the breach brothers
I have a dream
Goodnight Love Hugh xx
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 10/03/2016.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Hope you enjoyed that last bottle, hugh. Goodnight
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But Mr Cameron will step up his warnings about the dangers of Brexit today with a speech in Wales in which he will warn that leaving the EU could destroy the farming industry.
Speaking to car workers in Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, yesterday, the Prime Minister said Brexit could spark an economic ‘shock’.
‘Let’s just remember what a shock really means,’ he said. ‘It means pressure on the pound sterling. It means jobs being lost. It means mortgage rates might rise. It means businesses closing. It means hard-working people losing their livelihoods.’
Mr Cameron told workers at the Vauxhall factory that even gloves and socks could be more expensive if Britain left the EU.
First Mum gets the chop, now I wont be able to afford to buy new socks.
And someone needs to inform him he's already been beaten at destrorying the farming industry.
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Ads wrote:
do you consider the above as a future wish list, or do you consider it to be an essential commitment from the EU Commission prior to the British referendum vote?
In an ideal world, personally I would consider it a desirable commitment. However as we know politics is about the art of the possible. Cameron has said he will not participate in quotas. Not because he does not believe they would relieve the migrant situation but because they would be unacceptable to the voting public in the UK. They cannot be imposed either because the UK has an opt out. He could take the high moral ground and agree but he knows that will damage his chances of achieving a ‘stay in’ vote.
The British fear of being overwhelmed by migrants is very real and to a point justified. Britain is a small already overcrowded island with people living on top of each other with a minimum of personal space. France and Germany geographically are very large countries and can absorb migrant populations with more efficiency and without impacting the existing populations provided public services can foot the bill.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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