| The Comments |
Perrypower,
The failure by the remain campaigners to recognise that those considering exit come from a far wider political perspective than just UKIP or the far right, does a great disservice to the debate. Likewise with sterotyping.
Also many from BOTH camps can criticise tactics employed in this debate, in fact they are doing so, so to imply in this case that the poster sits comfortably with all exiteers views, is a wrong assumption. The overall concerns with regard to control and accountability however remain.
This message was last edited by ads on 20/06/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 20/06/2016.
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Well Ads,
taking a page from Hephaestus, I accept that not all Leave campaigners are xenophobic or racist, but it appears that all xenophobs and racists are in favour of Leave. I see that as a very worrying element of the Leave campaign.
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As stated before Tadd you cannot compare the House of Lords to EU Commission.
ads I understand teh nature and role of the House of lords but the electorate do NOT get a say or vote in who is in the House of Lords, it is an UNELECETD house (which many in the UK complain about - hence the hypocrisy), which is where the comparison comes in and they ARE part of the system thats governs the UK i.e. unelected leaders (no matter how you dress it up)
the same goes for the PM and cabinet ministers they are NOT elected into the roles by the electorate.
the electorate elects MP's NOT PM's or cabinet ministers
I recall the same argument that the electorate did not elect Gordon Brown as PM
Accountable or not these senior and very powerful posts in UK govt and the EU and are done without the direct input of the electorate and they are appointed by the electorates representatives or in the case of the PM as leader of teh party by the party members still NOT the electorate
the same conduits you talk about via MP's is available via MEP's
regarding forward planning etc. the UK are a major part of this in the EU despite the many failings of past and present UK govts in forward planning in the UK whilst in the EU AND prior to the existence of the EU
UK govts past and present have also been rigid and inflexible and many policies from the EU supported by the UK govt have forced the hand of UK govst to be more flexible
The EU and its treaties do need reform and the UK have a lot to offer and shoudl be at the table to refrom, correct and influence - being away from the table will only mean the Uk will still have to "abide by" many reforms to trade with the EU on EU terms and therefore have less control over how.
The exiters seem to think the EU and the RoW are going to bend over backwarsd to trade with the UK on UK terms - I don't see it hapenng that way!!!!!
The UK really do not have anything that unique or special to offer or anything that cannot be reproduced elsewhere, good economy now but in the future I doubt it if the Uk exits is only doom and gloom and a break up of the UK hanging in the background
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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There are extremes to counter within both camps, for instance those large corporations and financial entites with immense power and self interest whose involvement in this camapign begs many questions as to the reliability and independence of "evidence" and whose previous involvement / analyses have been brought into question.
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Tadd the conduit you refer to within the EU is incomparable to that in the UK. We are not talking of theory here but actual effective mechanisms to feedback and the willingness of those in power to respond in a timely and fair manner to the concerns of citizens they represent.
The system of 28 member states, all with differing agendas and a treaty in desperate need of review, that the EU Commission have been loathe to address over this last decade and beyond, only reinforces citizens concerns of the ability to reform this monolith.
I would question why have the EU Commission not saught to call an emergency meeting of the EU Parliament so that they can issues a mission statement to reassure citizens of their willngness to reform and readdress the requirement for treaty change? Is it because they have little intention to do so in their political dogma for a federal state that removes citizen control in that process?
This message was last edited by ads on 20/06/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 20/06/2016.
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The willingness of the EU to reform is embodied in the reforms which all members agreed to at the request of the U.K. To suggest it is a non-movable monolith is not factual.
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Sadly these reforms do not go to the heart of treaty change which is the basis upon which citizens protection and ability to have their concerns adequately addressed relies.
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Tadd the conduit you refer to within the EU is incomparable to that in the UK. We are not talking of theory here but actual effective mechanisms to feedback and the willingness of those in power to respond in a timely and fair manner to the concerns of citizens they represent
This is only because the citziens do not address issues with theoir MEP's as much and I do not know why but the mechanics are the same just becuase they are not used is not really an excuse. In the past when living in the UK I have attned MP and MEP's surgeries and approached local councillors - many people in the UK do not even knwo who their representatives are and never look beyoind who teh party leaders are which is not the EU's problem
The sytem of 28 states not agreeing is no differentt to the 4 staes of teh Ukw nating their own way or having diferring views etc. Even further the 650 UK MP's can't agree. Which is why we have democracy
I would question why have the EU Commission not saught to call an emergency meeting of the EU Parliament so that they can issues a mission statement to reassure citizens of their willngness to reform and readdress the requirement for treaty change? Is it because they have little intention to do so in their political dogma for a federal state that removes citizen control in that process?
I do not disgaree but the same question could (and maybe should) be asked to the UK and the 4 member states of the UK, local councilss, H of L's etc
I don't see many emergency meetings being called in the UK by the electorate to issue statements as you suggest. Yes parliament uses Cobra and the EU has similar porcesses for emergencies such as the Brussels bombing and the migrant crisis etc.but not as you suggest
It would better to try andhelp fix the treaties, raise the concnerns of the people they represent and be one of the key member states at the table rather than simply looking through the window with envy and trepidation of any changes that may or may not affect the UK
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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it is an UNELECETD house
But it is not the executive.
The commission is the executive, it makes hallf our laws, is not elected and is responsible to no-one
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The willingness of the EU to reform is embodied in the reforms which all members agreed to at the request of the U.K. To suggest it is a non-movable monolith is not factual.
As near as makes no difference - how about virtual monolith?
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I accept that not all Leave campaigners are xenophobic or racist, but it appears that all xenophobs and racists are in favour of Leave.
Now how can you possible show that to be true?
Not that it matters. You should vote for the good of your country no matter who your fellow travellers may be.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 20/06/2016.
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Since Friday the only thing that has changed is a general view from polls that Remain has edged ahead. But on that small nugget FTSE IS UP 3 1/4% and pound is up 1 1/2%
How much more proof does the Leave campaign need; the economic writing is on the wall. If you have a pension plan then you are richer today than Friday. Not a forecast. Not a leap into the unknown. FACT.
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The only part of this that cannot be proved to be FACT is that it has anything to do with the polls....FACT
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The commission is the executive, it makes hallf our laws, is not elected and is responsible to no-one
Not true another myth and it is only EU law not the laws of the 4 states of the UK or any other EU member states laws
Link: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyourservice/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_1.3.8.html
extract
c.Accountability
1.Personal accountability (Article 245 TFEU)
Members of the Commission are required:
- to be completely independent in the performance of their duties, in the general interest of the Union; in particular, they may neither seek nor take instructions from any government or other external body;
- not to engage in any other occupation, whether gainful or not.
Commissioners may be compulsorily retired by the Court of Justice, at the request of the Council or of the Commission itself, if they breach any of the above obligations or have been guilty of serious misconduct (Article 247 TFEU).
2.Collective accountability
The Commission is collectively accountable to Parliament under Article 234 TFEU. If Parliament adopts a motion of censure against the Commission, all of its members are required to resign, including the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, as far as his or her duties in the Commission are concerned.
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Traders are making their decisions based on the polls. It is not whether the polls are right or wrong or accurate. It is the direction of travel in the polls that is determining the direction of travel in the financial markets. Remain means up. Leave means down. The trend is obvious.
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The UK is made up of 90% of people who havent a penny in the Stockmarket just like me SKINT these are the people who are voting for Immigration reforms as the main reason to leave
Th FTSE is up on the back of ASIA and Crude nothing to do with the Polls you know absolutely nothing about markets most investors buy on value not sentiment read some of Wozzer Buffets books you may learn something
Love Hugh XOXO
Ask yourself if we were not in the EU would you want to join it NO is the answer
And where the hells MickyFinn hes gone to ground hasnt posted for days funny that
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 20/06/2016.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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If it was as simple as that we could all be traders by checking out the latest polls and buying stocks based on that, not on if the company looks profitable, has good management team, etc. ie there is a football competition on at the moment called the euros (nothing to do with the EU, I believe) and so there will be a large increase in replica football kits and the like and so the confidence in sports retailers are likely to do better than normal.
If you wish to put it down to the 'polls' then that's up to you, but don't expect everyone else to make that concluson.
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The traders are loving all this volatility! They know how the public reacts to news stories.They couldn't give a toss about remain or leave.
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It just depends on how much trading activity there has been, a saying in my neck of the woods is 'Half of three quarters of nowt, is still bugger all'. 
Awaits edit/delete for use of a swear word. 
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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Hugh, if you have a non-government pension plan you have money invested in the stock market. Asia is up on the polls. Please do your homework. At the moment everyone is trading on technicals and not fundamentals. If you know about market you will knwo what I am talking about.
BigAl, you are confusing stock picking with index trading. Study up on this and you will understand what I am saying.
Hep, trading today is heavy. GBP/EUR vol alone is £159 billion so far with 9 hours to go.
Tenerife, you are absolutely right. But they equate Remain with UP and Leave with DOWN. It is not just vol they trade but direction and you are right they love Delta.
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