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brian
perhaps the Japanese have realised there is a good market for them in UK when the German manufacturers are ordered to add tariffs on exports to the UK.
Inscrutable, perhaps.
I wonder if PSA will spot that one for Vauxhall.
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It won't make any difference as to what Joe public thinks... our future will be decided by the corrupt political establishment ..the likes of Alex Salmon and Nicola Sturgeon are just loving all the attention they are getting the various talk show host's are fighting over who is going to interview them next ....both Salmon and Sturgeon are currently demanding up to £20,000 for a personal appearance.....at the end of all this and let's hope that comes sooner than later both Salmon and Sturgeon will end up multi millionaire's and fade away into the back ground and leave the people of Scotland to get on with their lives as members of the UK .
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In the Dutch election the turnout was 80% very impressive public engagement of the issues as you would expect from a nation traditionally as liberal as Holland. I dont think there is much to read into the result other than the electorates wish for the status quo.
Racist parties such as Wilders will always appeal to a minority with the same views. Clearly the main stream political parties used the recent spat with Turkey as a tool to display a certain attitude on immigration issues that was well received.
I'm encouraged by the result for the future of European cohesion.
Ads Thanks for the link. It's interesting but when I see the words *figures based on less than 100 respondents I think it says it all.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn this is the Brexit thread if you have nothing constructive to add ...from what i can see from your post you are trying to make it look like the people that voted for Brexit are racist ...I personally voted out and I am not a racist all the other people I know that voted out are not racist...we are not Dutch either and could not careless how the Dutch voted but let's hope that the Dutch party that won learns from it's past mistakes and Start's listening to the other half's concerns.
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Hugh_man, i think that Toyota probably sell a good proportion of their production in the UK, and the remainder sold in the EU on EU tariffs is compensated by the amount of sales in the UK, good business practice. If the total cost of tariffs was negative i am sure that Toyota would send production to mainland Europe to compensate. This would be the case even without Brexit though not as critical. You also have to take into account quality and level of production, cars made per day on the workforce average. There are many factors to take into account not just the effects of Brexit.
As for PSA spotting anything for Vauxhall, i feel that their track record with UK production of their own brand, (Peugeot) at the plant at Ryton, Coventry soon came to an end when they decided the plant was not profitable, a plant that had been there for many years, originally as a Hillman factory, then taken over by Talbot, and subsequently to Peugeot. They dumped the workforce rather than modernise the plant and use it as a asset for PSA. It is possible they will wind down Vauxhall in the same manner. Ryton is now an industrial estate.
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Mickeyfinn re
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/why-did-scotland-vote-to-remain/ the article quoted
"Although there have been some clues about the answers to these questions in the opinion polls published since June 23rd, between them they have offered little opportunity to compare the pattern of voting on the two sides of the border systematically. However, the week before last, the academic British Election Study released the latest wave of data from a very large internet panel it has been running since the beginning of February 2014. This wave consists of just over 30,000 interviews conducted shortly after the referendum – including no less than 3,600 in Scotland. With everyone on both sides of the border asked the same questions about the referendum, these data make it possible to undertake the systematic comparison that has hitherto been impossible."
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The EU is stuck in permanent crisis, wrecked by its federalist dogma, economic mismanagement and lack of democratic accountability.
The single currency has become an engine of crippling debts, mass unemployment and stalled growth, while the EU’s model of social protection is hopelessly uncompetitive and unsustainable.
The EU makes up just seven per cent of the world’s population yet incredibly accounts for more than 50 per cent of the world’s welfare spending.
Similarly the EU’s obsession with open borders has only succeeded in fanning the flames of division and extremism, the opposite of its goal of unity. In fact the very existence of European civilisation is now under threat thanks to Brussels’ determination to import alien cultures on an industrial scale.
It is the EU, not Britain, that is heading for catastrophe. We have nothing to be frightened of alone, even without a deal, whereas the EU’s own survival is at risk.
Leo McKinstry - Daily Express
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Windtalker - from what i can see from your post you are trying to make it look like the people that voted for Brexit are racist
I am not suggesting anything of the sort. Wilders Freedom Party fought the election on withdrawal from the EU and on racist policies too obnoxious to reprint here.. That is relevant to this thread because such policies were rejected by the Dutch people.
It’s interesting to note the Dutch Green Party gained more votes. They stood for greater immigration among other things.
You should not relate what you read to yourself. Try and be a little more personally detached and you may see a larger picture.
ads I missed that quote in the link. To my mind the article had some value in understanding peoples motives for voting the way they do but often such statistics are unreliable. Much of the time people vote from their gut feelings rather than their head and rarely admit it to pollsters when asked.. That's the danger of one issue referendums.
A general election has more issues at stake and so the vote tends to be I suggest better considered and restricted to constituency representation. The vote then has more legitimacy in my view. It’s a system that has stood the test of time and the best guarantee of democratic representation.
Taking the UK out of a political and economic union that has been the source of wealth and stability for forty years on the strength of one plebiscite vote is madness.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 16/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Wealth and stability? For who? bureaucrats? Ask the under 25's in Spain how they are feeling with all their wealth and stability....
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The EU is not responsible for creating the great recession and the property crash in Spain. That was the banks and global speculators. You need to study the causes it a little more.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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So all the worlds under 25's are suffering then? I don't think so. If the EU is so good why are these people being left to rot?
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The EU managed to find 320 million euros from their wealth and stability to pay for a new building whilst everyone else was dealing with austerity.
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When the EU has control of global market forces perhaps you might have a point. Until then I prefer to believe that politics in a democracy has only a minor affect on capitalism or market forces. Animal instincts are usually stronger than political ambitions.
Bureaucrats the word everyone loves to use to describe EU officials are just that. People processing political decisions. Capitalists and speculators make the moves which influence markets, jobs, wealth prosperity. Yet when it all goes wrong who gets the blame.........The dull old pen pushing politicians whoops sorry bureaucrats.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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As usual Mickeyfinn you fail to recognise how the EU bureaucrats failed miserably to ensure adequate regulatory measures and safety mechanisms were in place, or adhered to, to mitigate the impact and turned blind eyes to accession criteria, stability mechanisms in place to protect, and they STILL turn blind eyes to lack of Banking regulation and continuing abuse, and for that matter to the rule of law to ensure justice is administered in a timely manner with due regard to ensure provision of adequate resources are made available ( failing to action infringement measures against errant member states to act as deterrent and gain accountability).
Likewise with all manner of other failures identified within this thread not least how they EXACERBATED the problems following the Banking crisis that impacted those European countries having to deal with greater debt, by failing to deal with irregular migration trends caused by their free movement policy without any willingness to assess differentials. You really should comprehend the wider picture Mickeyfinn.
Also with reference to your previous posting.. .... the "gut feel " of the Scottish voters according to the research article identified could just as easily have concluded as follows:
"In voting to Remain some of those voters at least were seemingly telling us more about what they thought about ‘independence in Europe’ than they were about the merits of the UK’s membership of the European Union."
Each to their own however... 😉
P.s. Klaver ( Greens) used the meetups to talk about his BROAD political vision, speaking of “hope” “optimism” and “change”, so perhaps the " gut feel " of voters in the Netherlands could also just as easily have focused upon Klaver’s message from a far wider perspective as follows….
“Klaver is a strong supporter of the European Union, BUT he appeared intent on ensuring multinationals don’t avoid taxes and expressed a keeness for more sustainable agriculture practices in a country where intensive farming is still the norm.
“What we need is the most ambitious climate program ever,” he said. “Climate change is happening right now and we have to stop it.”
The message resonates in this low-lying country, parts of which hunker below sea level behind giant dikes.”
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Sorry ads but that's just plain wrong. The ECB has acted since the great recession and put in place strong regulatory measures. The Eurozone now has a macro-prudential policy in place which some economists argue is holding the EZ countries back. I recommend you study these policies in detail. There is a great deal of information available.
How would you suggest the ECB deal with indebted nations? Write off their debts which will only encourage more borrowing. Greece became indebted to the extent it has, not because of migration policy but as a result of binge spending and living beyond its means when it joined the Euro. Spain's banks came close to bankruptcy because of reckless property lending. Italy has always borrowed more than it earned as a nation. Its banks also lent recklessly in the last decade.
Migration is not caused by governments within the EU. The cause is global poverty and war. Its aftermath is what the EU has to deal with because of its prosperity and liberal democratic politics makes it a magnet destination. The EU has a migration policy in place and again may I suggest you read it. I don't comment on the merits of that policy but it certainly is not the cause of any debts the EU having provided substantial funding.
This is a Brexit forum and going off topic writing detailed essays to counter every unjustified allegation made against the EU on here is firstly a pointless waste of time and secondly simply bores the readers.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 17/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn,
With regard to macro-prudential policy, which I agree is essential following the Banking crisis, are you aware of the following:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroprudential_regulation
“In Europe, the task has also been assigned since 2010 to a new body, the European Systemic Risk Board (ESRB), whose operations are supported by the European Central Bank. Unlike its U.S. counterpart, the ESRB lacks direct enforcement power. “
With regard to indebted nations, my point was that no apparent comparisons are made to analyse and take account of the differentials between member states as part of the freedom of movement policy, such that for instance a member state with a much lower debt ratio (or lower benefit allowances or lower unemployment ratios etc) is treated exactly the same as one with a high debt ratio, in terms of assessing their continuing right to access in-work benefits, tax credits, housing benefits, child benefits etc from the member state currently undergoing reform to best manage and reduce their current high debt ratio. The one-size fits all scenario appears to be failing in so much as it can lead to “irregular patterns of migration” which in turn exacerbate and have the potential to proliferate discontent and unrest.
In terms of Greece and their debt (since you made reference to this), even the IMF have expressed concern with regard to the unrealistic terms of repayment and the constraints placed upon Greece (presenting it with a downward spiral - unable to attain any growth to assist in its ability to meet its current debt repayments, which in turn has resulted in extending the timeframe that its citizens are exposed to such crippling austerity measures). This coupled with the failure of EU bureaucrats to correctly assess (or turn a blind eye to) the accession criteria from the outset, is highly questionable.
In terms of remaining on topic with Brexit, lets hope that all of these failings and ongoing “educational debates” which added (whether directly or indirectly) to the frustrations of many leading up to the referendum vote, will assist in some way to comprehend the wider perspective going forward, and hopefully lead to greater understanding so as to assist and breakdown barriers and divisions, (as opposed to exacerbate the divisions), and strive for solutions (and where necessary reform), as we all hopefully move forward to achieve mutually beneficial outcomes.
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So Nicola Sturgeon says that although the current situation is completely different to how she sees it, she thinks she can force Theresa May to break protocol and give her a referendum before the exit of the UK from the EU.
She claims that Thresa Mays denial is a desparate measure , but can she not see that the UK went into the EU as a Union, and that is the Union that leaves? She is only trying to get this new Scottish referendum through in a desparate hope she can hang onto EU membership once the UK leaves. She knows that once the UK has left it will be almost impossible to rejoin the EU in the near future, and certainly not on the same terms Scotland currently enjoys
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It will cost the Scottish Tax payer's billions of Scottish euro's to build a wall that will keep the rest of the UK out and all the mass uncontrollable migration in .
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Instead of me just writing my comtempt for writing such a post windtalker please read this: If your interested which I suspect you are not you can read the full article in the Independent today.
Brexit is English nationalism made flesh, but the English underrate its destructive potential as a form of communal identity. Concepts like “nationalism” and “self-determination” have traditionally been seen as something that happens to foreigners. An English failing today is an inability to recognise the egocentricity implicit in such nationalism and the extent to which it alienates and invites confrontation with other nations in the British Isles and beyond.
A classic example of this blindness to the consequences of this new type of nationalism came this week when Theresa May denounced Nicola Sturgeon for “playing politics with the future of our country” in demanding a second referendum on Scottish independence. This immediately begs the question about the nature and location of this “country” to which such uncritical loyalty is due. If the state in question is the UK, then why do the advocates of Brexit ignore the opposition – and take for granted the compliance – of Scotland and Northern Ireland in leaving the EU?
Patrick Cockburn. 18 March.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-scottish-referendum-english-nationalism-damaged-union-for-good-a7635796.html
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 18/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickey your quoted text from Patrick Cockburn is somewhat aimed at Theresa May, as the agent of the exit vote and is therefore a total fabrication in when it says,
" If the state in question is the UK, then why do the advocates of Brexit ignore the opposition – and take for granted the compliance – of Scotland and Northern Ireland in leaving the EU?"
Firstly, Theresa May is NOT an advocate of Brexit, it should be remembered that her personal opinion is to remain, but being the UK Prime Minister, she has agreed to carry out Brexit in line with the result of the referendum vote. Secondly she is not taking for granted the compliance of Scotland and Northern Ireland in leaving the EU. It should be remembered that all member countries of the UK AGREED to enter the EU, and so after a UK wide referendum vote, the result being exit,the UK leaves the EU . If the countries within the UK wish to separate then these negotiations should commence after the release of the UK from the EU.
How could Scotland remain in the EU on conditions previously agreed with the UK? It just is not possible. Any future membership Scotland might have must be done solely by Scotland, and not by attempting to pervert laws and regulations that are already in existance. For Nicola Sturgeon to attempt anything else is just plainly stupidity of the highest degree.
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