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So, not only the stupidity of 350 million a week (or day if you have a stupid user name) but the ridiculous "bendy banana" bit gets trotted out. And only cheap phone calls?
Problem is, everyone will get the vote, even Littlejohn readers who believe the rubbish and forget about the deregulation of air travel, free movement of goods, clean water and clean air acts, workers rights on hours and holidays, health & safety etc etc. Nope, the brexiteers just spit venom and repeat the lies that have passed into folklore. Trouble is, they believe them.
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Sovereignty it is the ability of the nation state to exercise independent political power on the given territory
So why not the EU as our soveriegn state or even wider
Only greed and stupid nationalistic pride keeps sovereignty at member state level (even in the 4 state UK)
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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There are some similar comparisons with the Brexiteers and the recent Livingstone comments that Hitler supported Zionism. I don't mean the content I mean the urban myths that get trotted out from time to time.
Like conspiracy theories, some people prefer to believe in them rather than research the facts for themselves. Urban myths are handed down and passed around until like a snowball travelling down a hill it gathers credence. They may suit the individuals prejudice or purpose but that does not lend them any degree of truth.
The EU has been accused over the years of many different evils, ills and conspiracies. Mud sticks if you throw enough. People like Livingstone will pick it up because they have an axe to grind. It’s the same in this referendum debate. The same old suspects trot out their same old theories none of which stand up to any independent scrutiny.
Apparently, I read today Vladimir Putin supports Brexit. Myth, legend or truth?
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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There is nothing wrong with the basic idea of a bloc of neighbouring countries working happily together for their common good.
But it's become unwieldy and costs too much.
I deliberately mentioned bananas and vacuum cleaners as a couple of daft things among the more serious. I don't believe an exit would make that much difference to air travel, or many of the other things mentioned.
I am certainly concerned that the EU machine appears to be fast tracking an application from a country with a diabolical human rights record, and lack of freedom of speech.
But this is my view, and I am entitled to express it. As you all are entitled to express yours.
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Not sure we want to skate near some of this thin ice but:
Livingstone is very pro EU (but then perhaps you could say that of Hitler). He certainly spouts similar pro EU misinformation and BREXIT fear tactics to those spouted here..
The Banana directive was a fact. I was in Madeira at the time. They were very unhappy bunnies when told they could not sell thier short curved bananas in the EEC. (But some were happy with the tunnel through the mountains that the EU was paying for).
If I put myself in Putin's shoes (I really hope they do not fit well) I think I would prefer Britain in the EU with some of the America haters to be found there. Rather than alongside the strongest democracy in the world.
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Just look up EU banana myth. Another false claim.
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yes but if 27 people gave you back 5 p you would have more thanyou started with
Trouble is they only offer us 1c back, and then they tell us what to spend it on.
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The United Kingdom EEC referendum of 1975 was a post-legislative referendum held on 5 June 1975 in the United Kingdom to gauge support for the country's continued membership of the European Economic Community (EEC), often known as the Common Market at the time, which it had entered in 1973.
That was what most people voted for, not a United States of Europe, however (and I may be the only one) but I think the goal posts have been moved quite a bit since then. I have a gut feeling UK will vote to stay, but if I lived there ( I live in Spain with dual UK and Irish nationality) I would be very concerned how much more the posts will be moved in the next 33 years.
If I lived or even had a vote in UK (i just have to pay most of my income tax there) I might believe that when the EU can decide that a country's laws are wrong and make them change them, that the wishes of the people of the UK are being overruled.
Just one example. My wife is a non-EU citizen. The law in UK would not let her enter the UK without a visa. An appeal was made to the ECJ resulting in the UK being told they must let my wife enter the UK without a visa. Excuse me if I see that as the EU overruling the wishes of the people of UK.
In Case C-202/13 McCarthy the CJEU ruled last December that “Member States are, in principle, required to recognise a residence card issued under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38, for the purposes of entry into their territory without a visa”.
The judgment was handed down in Case C-202/13 McCarthy on a reference for a preliminary ruling by the English High Court, concerning a dual British/Irish citizen residing in Spain with his Colombian wife and their children. Mrs McCarthy held a residence card issued under Royal Decree No 240/2007, which gives effect to Directive 2004/38 in Spain. Despite holding such a residence card, the UK authorities had required Mrs McCarthy to obtain a visa called an EEA family permit in order to enter the UK with her husband. The McCarthys brought proceedings before the High Court to challenge the UK’s policy not to recognise such residence cards. The High Court then referred the matter to the EU Court of Justice for a binding opinion on the interpretation of the EU rules.
The implementation of the CJEU’s ruling will bring an end the UK’s long-running policy that effectively required all family members of EU citizens to obtain an EEA Family Permit before being able to enter the UK with their EU relative, even though they held a residence card issued by another EEA State.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 01/05/2016.
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Bendy bananas. So it's true. It is a 'euromyth'. Press had a field day.
But just as tteedd states, it is a fact. Bananas must be free from....'abnormal curvature'.
Could we discuss all the secrecy surrounding TTIP instead? And that actually, the EU didn't drive the reduction in roaming charges? That there are economists and leading lights in the City, far more intelligent than me, who think Brexit is a good idea?
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Trouble is they only offer us 1c back, and then they tell us what to spend it on.
Obiously not true or even close
It is only right that the richer nations support the poorer nations and what the UK does in EU is no different to how say London subsidises other poorer parts of the UK - If I recall 20 to 25% of London's taxpayers tax is used to subsidse other UK regions and tell them what to spend it on.
So based on the that argument will London eventually want indepedance from UK?
Another solution for any union would be redistribution of wealth and jobs with subsidies, incentives, rebates - oops I think the EU are doing that now with tax payers money
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Intersting post by johnzx
johnzx
just for clarification as it is not clear to me
Is the McCarthy case you listed about you or did you piggy back on the back of this case?
Some similarities between Sean Ambrose McCarthy & yourself both being Irish & UK citizens living in Spain with a south american wif
Apologies for the drift but just wanted some clarification as it could be useful for some friends of mine
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Blueeyes, you're reading more into it than me. "Abnormal curvature"? I should hope so. They can still be sold but not as premium or class 1, in line with a UN ruling.
And, yes, you can cherry pick comments from bankers and City types but I think you'll find there are far more against it. Depends on your bias, I suppose.
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Bananas
When I arrived on Holiday in about 1993 farmers were blocking the access to Funchal airport because 'the EEC did not want their short bendy bananas'. So you just can't tell me it did not happen or it is a EU myth.
Prior to Portugal acceding to the EEC/EU nearly all the bananas from Madeira went to Portugal. Even though the bananas from Madeira were substandard according to the EU rules this trade went on until the early 90's.
The problem arose when EEC policies ran foul of Gatt and a trade war in bananas started up. As I understand it the EEC lost the battle with GAT but as a consequence became more officious about its banana rules. The consequence of this was that the market for short bendy bananas collapsed leading to the problems in Madeira.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 01/05/2016.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 01/05/2016.
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What's the difference between a plantano and a bannana?
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Tadd. Is the McCarthy case you listed about you or did you piggy back on the back of this case?
I sent you a PM so as not to dtrift anymore
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Before I went to spain I thought plantains were a sort of vegetable version of a banana. The table below seems to confirm this:
| Plantains |
Bananas |
- Starchy
- Used as a vegetable
- Longer than bananas
- Thicker skin
- Resemble green bananas, but may be green, yellow or black
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- Sweet
- Eaten as a fruit
- Shorter than plantains
- Thinner skin
- Color is green when not fully ripe, yellow when ripe
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However in Spain they used to all be called platanos and the sweet ones were usually not very nice. But I notce that these days in the supermercado they have ' Banana .............' followed by country of origin and looking more like the ones we eat.
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But I notice that these days in the supermercado they have ' Banana .............' followed by country of origin and looking more like the ones we eat.
Maybe that's following an EU Directive 
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Maybe that's following an EU Directive
A small reform, but a beginning.
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My Dad's family are North Devon farmers, on Exmoor, my Uncle's farm is an old disused mine, the house was built from the rock cut out from a cliff edge, as this went back so the yard got bigger, this was done well over a 150 years ago, maybe many more, the farm name is on ordnance survey maps
My uncles Dad owned it, his Dad owned it, it has been used as a farm in my family for at least 100 years +, one day my Uncle had a visit from the ministry of agriculture who told him that due to new rules from the EU, and quoted him every regulation going, he cannot now let his animals walk over the farm yard because the farmhouse had no guttering on it, and the rain water was running of the slate roof and over the yard, and animals were walking in it and it's not allowed anymore, the farm house had a very low slate roof from day one which couldn't have any sort of guttering fitted.
Another time he took sheep to market, got told two of them were overweight so cant be sold, he went to pick them up only to be told he cant because they had entered the sheep sale, and cant come out...EU new rules. These sheep went to slaughter, he had to pay and collect them once killed.
Just another couple of stupid rules that some overpaid EU jerk thought up to pass the time of day no doubt, and something that doesn't get reported, and if it was would be fobbed of as Un-true.
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baz
good story but have to say in order to make a balanced view the full reason for the rulings are needed.
not saying your family were doing any wrong but as with most things there are always 2 sides etc.
why is guttering needed?
what is worng with sheep that are overwieght - meat too fatty, overpriced etc. I don't know
some rules may not make sense to all but often a justifible reason
did UK farming controllers agree with EU ruling, was the UK farming controllers part of the EU rule making committee?
what would an indepedant UK say now? would the rules be changed?
the EU make many rules which the UK are party to and if the UK leaves the EU these rules will still apply if the UK want to trade with the EU and guess what - the UK will have no say on these rules like they do now
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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