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Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Doom and gloom.......Good riddance to Sir Ivan, another remoaner that would have sold us down the river, thats why you remoaners are upset, hoping we would get a crap deal for the UK......Hard Brexit is the way....
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The UK's ambassador to the EU, Sir Ivan Rogers, has resigned.
The person most qualified to understand and lead Brexit has basically quit becasue he was tired of the response of Brexiters who think they know better than he about how to deal with the EU.
This is a serious body blow to Brexit...
I would have though that with all the wisdom you think you have over the why's and where for's over the UK leaving the EU you of all people might have realised perhaps his leaving was more to do with a better job offer where he can earn thousands for just talking about the UK leaving, rather then the excuse he came out with...'You lot won't take notice of me...So I quit'  smacks a little of Cameron, who as you know now earns thousands just to show up somewhere.
Your in a dream world if you believe that these people are honestly concerned about the average jo and his life style, almost every last one of them wanted, and still wants the UK to stay in so they can easily retire into the EU on the gravy train when the time comes.
Â
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"Profile | Sir Ivan Rogers
Former British Permanent Representative to the EU
Born:
1960 (age 57)
Education:Balliol College, Oxford and the École Normale Supérieure in Paris
Sir Ivan Rogers has spent almost his entire career as an official or diplomat, having joined the civil service fast stream and been seconded to the Treasury.
There he rose to become Private Secretary to Ken Clarke, the then Chancellor and leading Europhile, before being poached by Leon Brittan in 1996 to be his chief-of-staff after the former Home Secretary had moved to Brussels to become a European Commissioner.
At the age of only 35, Sir Ivan found himself leading what would later become a legendary Brussels cabinet whose members went on to populate the upper echelons of the Brussels bureaucracy for nearly two decades to come.
Having helmed the Brittan cabinet during a period when British influence in Brussels was at its zenith, Sir Ivan was marked out for bureaucratic stardom, returning to London in 1999 and rising swiftly in to become principal private secretary to Tony Blair in 2003.
After leaving for a five-year spell in the City, Sir Ivan was persuaded back to Whitehall in 2012 to be Mr Cameron’s top Europe adviser before moving back to Brussels in 2013 to become the UK’s ambassador to the European bureaucracy, until his resignation on 3 January 2017."
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Given the above profile surely his resignation is no surprise, is it?
"Having helmed the Brittan cabinet during a period when British influence in Brussels was at its zenith, Sir Ivan was marked out for bureaucratic stardom, "...
What a contrast to now find himself out in the cold, working alongside his fellow europhiles, but this time on the other side of the fence, no longer influential with regard to essential ongoing analysis and reform agenda  ....
Some may suggest welcome to the real world of a changing European Union where the UK has finally recognised the major shift away from a mutually beneficial arrangement with in-built rules intended to protect against imbalance and instability, towards a more unstable and intransigent federal European Union with a completely different agenda.
No surprise to some perhaps?
Â
This message was last edited by ads on 04/01/2017.
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Sir Ivan Rogers?
Isn't this the guy who went to Brussel's with DC to get a fantastic deal for the UK and came back with a 'tampon tax'?
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And today he has warned about muddled thinking...he must have been reading thsi thread just before I woke up as muddled is a diplomatic phrase for complete fantasy...
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And today he has warned about muddled thinking...he must have been reading thsi thread just before I woke up as muddled is a diplomatic phrase for complete fantasy...
The only fantasy he has is the same as all the MP's, EU ones or otherwise...They all think they are fantastic in what they do, so I guess that makes them Muddled P's.
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In increasingly heated exchanges in emails and curt telephone calls with political aides in Downing Street the Foreign Office mandarin threatened to resign......Again.
Oxford-educated Rogers was said to be contemptuous of people  especially politicians, whom he regarded as his intellectual inferiors.Â
Â
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I wonder which country he will choose to settle in? Â Â
Maybe he will choose to join some in Ex-pat land.  (After all it does mean ex-patriotic doesn't it).Â
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Best wishes, Brian
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Is it any wonder David Cameron's renegotiation finished as a total sham, when Sir Ivan was advising the then prime minister to ask for so little - especially on immigration - from the EU?
Yep for sure, cant help thinking he's a great guy.
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and the article was written by none other than Andrew Pierce of the Daily Mail...says it all.
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So this Andrew Pierce chap has written lies for all to see and read has he?Â
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The truth is even simpler; what avid Brexiters fail to grasp is that anyone could possibly disagree with them and that is why Brexit will fail. Anyone who disagrees with them are enemies of the realm. Brexit is so frail that anyone who says we need to be careful is crazy.
48% of the country did not agree with Brexit. They want it to be a success however despite this but we are opposed to seeing the UK wrecked in the process and reserve the right to make sure it is not wrecked.
52% want Brexit but are all over the place on what that means. They also want it to be a success but feel entitled and empowered to have it the way they dream about personnally that is many millions of different ideas...but no plans. There is no plan for Brexit at Government level; there is no common direction on Brexit from the people and god help anyone who does not agree with Brexiters'  personal views...they will be branded traitors.
Well I for one am happy to be branded a Traitor by the DayDream B*Leavers. I along with millions of others I will do everything to keep the UK together and to keep it from being wrecked by a group of people who cannot get it through their heads that there is going to be large and wide spread opposition to a badly handled Brexit.
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That's a good summary of how I feel
too PP
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Best wishes, Brian
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"Serious multilateral negotiating experience is in short supply in Whitehall, and that is not the case in the Commission or in the Council".
Contrary to the beliefs of some, free trade does not just happen when it is not thwarted by authorities: increasing market access to other markets and consumer choice in our own, depends on the deals, multilateral, plurilateral and bilateral that we strike, and the terms that we agree.
Sir Ivan Rogers 4 Jan.
Sir Ivan Rogers like the rest of us including the UK Parliament had no clue as to what this governments intentions are when the negotiations begin. I believe that is because they themselves are clueless and flapping around like headless chickens.
Article 50 imposition in March is a self-imposed deadline that is unwise and unnecessary. Especially so as Rogers has said it will likely take 10 years to secure meaningful trade deals with the EU.
He was the UK’s insider man at the EU. My belief is he knew what he was talking about but the government did not want to hear it. Resign with dignity before you are pushed. Truth is never a wise thing to government at least in public anyway.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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How do I unsubscribe from this thread? Can't believe there are so many postings on it still, from the same people.
Andrew Pierce is a well respected journalist.
Sir Ivan Rogers was a Government man, he realised that his psition was incompatable with the latest administration so he resigned. Big deal. Another opportunity for the remoaners to bleat and insult the brexiteers. Now we'll get someone with British interests at heart, not self interest. He'll get a good pension.Â
Perhaps you should tune into LBC radio for more information, Andrew Pierce has a show, as does Nigel Farage this week at 10pm. if you want an unhinged bremoaner listen to James O'Brien, he'll make you feel better about yourselves.
Mike.Â
Â
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Ivan Rogers appeared as a part of the European establishment so how on earth could he ever be deemed sufficiently independent to negotiate and advise the British Govt when his background, his now proven lack of diplomacy and disbelief in Brexit would certainly not be in the best interests of a Govt at odds with his pessimistic analysis?
Pessimism being the operative word which has reappeared time and time again. It wasn't that long ago that the pessimistic fear campaign and negative economic predictions with regard to the immediate effects following a pro Brexit result were being espoused. Â And have they proved realistic? Evidence to date appears to suggest otherwise.
No-one worth their salt should be going into negotiations with such a defeatist pessimistic attitude with such lack of self belief. They should be standing their corner and remain optimistic and realistic at achieving mutually beneficial trade deals....the emphasis being on mutually beneficial, surely?
If you're dealing with an intransigent negotiating partner however that fails to look for mutually beneficial outcomes, a partner intent on cutting off its nose to spite it's face, then what would that tell you about a bureaucratic system that fails to recognise the impact of its decision making on its citizens and member state economies?
Â
It's not so black and white as some would suggest. It's not about a Govt unwilling to listen to criticism, it's about retaining positive self belief and ability to negotiate and achieve mutually beneficial outcomes.
Â
If the EU bureaucrats have already determined an intransigent stance, an unwillingness to negotiate in the best interests of all its citizens, then far better to have plans in place to mitigate against such purposefully disruptive dictatorial blackmailing intent, and prepare for such eventualities?
Â
One uncomfortable reality that needs to be addressed and planned for therefore, is where one negotiating partner may well be intent on negotiations failing from the outset, purely for political ideological reasons, as opposed to striving for an economic outcome that would ultimately benefit the majority of its citizens.
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MikeandHelen,
Simples, just stop reading and posting on this thread, job done.Â
You should be able to locate a forum full of similar minded folk.Â
đŸ‘‹
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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
THANK YOU.
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The truth is even simpler; what avid Brexiters fail to grasp is that anyone could possibly disagree with them and that is why Brexit will fail.  Anyone who disagrees with them are enemies of the realm. Brexit is so frail that anyone who says we need to be careful is crazy.
48% of the country did not agree with Brexit. They want it to be a success however despite this but we are opposed to seeing the UK wrecked in the process and reserve the right to make sure it is not wrecked.
52% want Brexit but are all over the place on what that means. They also want it to be a success but feel entitled and empowered to have it the way they dream about personnally that is many millions of different ideas...but no plans. There is no plan for Brexit at Government level; there is no common direction on Brexit from the people and god help anyone who does not agree with Brexiters'  personal views...they will be branded traitors.
Well I for one am happy to be branded a Traitor by the DayDream B*Leavers. I along with millions of others I will do everything to keep the UK together and to keep it from being wrecked by a group of people who cannot get it through their heads that there is going to be large and wide spread opposition to a badly handled Brexit.
Got that wrong, the people who voted leave do not think the one's who disagree are enemies of the realm, we did it so as not to carry on with this corrupt system, can't speak for others but the enemies of our realm are those in the EU now.
You do not know if the UK will be wrecked when we leave, like we don't know what else the EU had in store for the UK if we stayed, no one person knows anything of what will happen.
Traitors are just another made up word from you because as I said you don't know, I don't know, no one knows, so you can come up with anything that will make you feel grand over it all.
Well, whats to be said, you have told us leavers we are traitors, cant get it through our heads, won't listen to the likes of you who say you know....Yet more of us voted out then your mob who voted in....And you tell us WE won't listen.
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Andrew Piece is a right wing hack and a sub editor of that highly objectionable rag The Daily Mail. The newspaper does not reflect any other view than that of the far right wing of the Conservative Party.
Britain along with most other nations is politically divided. The elected government must govern for ALL the people not just their extremist wing. It requires Civil Servants to speak their minds to ministers and not allow themselves to be surrounded by flunkies telling them what they want to hear.
Any government that does not follow that cardinal rule will be defeated at the next election or suffer civil unrest and conflict. Even after Brexit half of the British population and a majority in parliament will remain Europhiles. That is a future recipe for an un-governable state.Â
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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"The elected government must govern for ALL the people not just their extremist wing. "
Many who voted Brexit do not relate to right wing thinking and generalisations that attempt to link the two does a grave disservice to the rational reasoning behind their decision to vote to come out of the European Union.
It could equally be argued that a European Parliament and Commission should better heed the concerns and voices of its European citizens and recognise the call for reform, to strive for solutions to policies that have sadly led to distrust in the system, that have led to greater division and challenged cohesion (with adherence to stability mechanisms intended to protect), to strive for fair mutually beneficial outcomes taking full account of wide differentials between member states, irrespective of citizens personal political persuasions.
Â
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