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What a bloody mess this is farcical. M P.
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Tadd
i would not worry about article 50 or article 127 if I were you.
The great unwashed have by a small majority voted to leave the EU and all that goes with it, that is what they expect and like it or not that's how a democracy works.
The politicians who represent be people decided to ask the people fir their opinion, not wanting to take the responsibility themselves, that's fair enough in important circumstances.
Whatever you say Brexit IS Brexit, which means we are no longer connected with ANY of its rules and regulations and we no longer pay to be part of the single market club.
We have to negotiate new terms and conditions of trading with the EU while still being part of Europe and many of its benefits such as arrest warrants, terrorist information exchange, even EHIC as there is no reason for this to be removed.
The major point though is that having preened their feathers and stated we will not get a good deal, the intransigent EU are just starting to realise that referendii, is that correct?, are very likely in many other countries and that the EU is falling apart with the change of local politics in various countries, it will unravel and fall apart of its own accord.
The only hope is that intelligent politicians and countries will work out a way for an alternative fit for the 21st century.
The EU in its present form is not fit for purpose and past its sell by date.
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referenda or referendums, either is acceptable
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Hugh_man
So how are the uk going to leave the eea and who is going to decide
We gave NOT had a vote on that and the uk membership of the eea is separate from eu membership
In simple terms 2 clubs one club the uk has decided to leave but still members of the other club
How many people knew that the eu and eea are 2 separate clubs?
I didn't until I read the article
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd
Are we back to believing press articles or experts opinions again?
I Do hope posters caught a glimpse of BBC News at Ten article tonight talking to a small number of working class voters in Sicily and their views on Italy's current PM ahead of this weekends referendum.
Their concern over Italy's debt to GDP, their worries about corruption at high levels, their worries about migrants.
Sound familiar?
Another surprise against the establishment on the cards?
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Tadd
The EEA allows associate membership to the EU, other nations are permitted to be included.
The UK is part of both as currently it does not sit outside the EU rules.
The referendum asked if we wanted to be part of the EU, so yes we will leave.
Whether or not the EU allow us to be part of the EEA without accepting its current requirements is open to question.
But the people want OUT.
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EU members are part of the EEA
Non EU EEA members can access the single market but do not have a say on making the rules!
The UK was/is planning to leave both then re apply to join the EEA
Master stroke and genius that!!
Still if Hugh is right and the whole thing implodes we have nothing to worry about!
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Hello,
Democracy is very dangerous in the wrong hands ?
MP ( CDA)
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Everyday more and more EU countries are becoming disilliusioned with the EU and it seems unlikely that anyone can stop this 'boulder running down the hilL'.
So what if the UK were to invite those considering leaving the club, to form another club EU2?
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Hugh wrote:
The great unwashed have by a small majority voted to leave the EU and all that goes with it, that is what they expect and like it or not that's how a democracy works.
No Hugh that is how politicians measure public opinion. Democracy to be successful must work for everyone. You cannot ignore 48% of the population who voted to remain. The vote was advisory.
The skill of the political leaders is to try and reach a final outcome which goes someway to satisfy both sides in the referendum.
Blindly following the tyranny of the majority leads to discourse and ultimately conflict.
First past the post is an outdated concept. Had that been applied in the US election Clinton would now be President elect since she won the majority of the popular vote. Proportional representation is wide spread in Europe and in the European Parliament.
It does not happen in Britain because it does not suit the two major parties.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 29/11/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn ,if the UK stayed in the EU how would you go about fixing our broken NHS /OAP fund/Social Security system/and Chronic Housing shortage so everyone can be happy not just the majority bearing in mind they where set up to cater for the population of the UK and not the whole of Europe to draw off when in need. This message was last edited by windtalker on 29/11/2016.
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TemGB said
The UK was/is planning to leave both then re apply to join the EEA
There ws noting in the vote that said anything about leaving teh EEA
I would guess most people did not realise they were 2 separate "clubs" - and you have to ask did the remainers or the exiters really know and understand this? Hence we now have a legal challenge on EEA membership
The UK is currently a member of the EEA and this is a seperate membership to the EU membership
The vote was about exit from the EU NOT the EEA
After Brexit the UK will remain a member of the EEA unless it resigns its membership of the EEA and the question is who will decide?
hugh_man said
Are we back to believing press articles or experts opinions again?
They seem to be a bit more reliable and better informed than anything that has been posted on many forums you may also want to do an internet search - The EEA Agreement was signed in Porto on 2 May 1992 by the then seven states of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), the European Community (EC) and its then 12 member states.
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Leaving the EU certainly is not going to fix our NHS /OAP fund/Social Security system/and Chronic Housing shortage. The very question goes to show how misinformed some of the public is.
But because you asked, every one of those issues has been caused by an aging population living longer and wanting to live even longer. Anyone care to put forward a solution?
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Perrypower1 the British public have been made aware that the whole of the EU can come over to the UK and draw off our NHS/DSS /Housing System without paying anything in to the system this is a fact that this government and previous governments have tried to keep quite ,Cameron went over to the EU pre Brexit to try and fix this but was told that the EU would only allowed changes to our system when it collapsed,this really pissed the tax paying public like myself off and that is why I voted like the Majority voted Out. This message was last edited by windtalker on 29/11/2016.
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Well the consolation to that windtalker is the British are free to so the same in any European country. In fact it's a gross exaggeration. Most EU migrants come to the UK to work and contribute to the system so the system and the economy benefits hugely.
British retirees in Spain contribute to the Spanish economy and their health service receives a per head payment of €3.5k. That is a reciprocal arrangement throughout the EU. Migration is beneficial to all, not negative as you suggest.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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But it is not the retired EU Citizens coming over. It is young working people who contribute more than they take out. Conversely it is retired UK Citizens that go to the EU putting strains on their social care systems.
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But!!
In what one MP described as a "scandalous failure", it has emerged that the UK pays more than £670m to EU countries for Brits' healthcare abroad, while claiming back less than £50m even though there are significantly more EU citizens in the UK than UK citizens in the EU.
Whose fault is this!! Not the EU!
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Yes but - EU migrants who come to the UK to work register for NI and pay contributions so their home country would not be entitiled to any payments.
It's unlikely EU citizens would retire to the UK but you never know. In that scenario then the UK would receive a payment from the home state. Benefit tourism is the responsibility of national governments to deal with once again not an EU problem. In my experience the healthcare systems of most developed EU states is superior to that of the UK. So it's not likely people from these countries come for free treatment on the NHS.
The French healthcare system employs civil servant gate keepers who you have to get through to receive treatment. They check your validity to care and tell you what you will have to pay. After treatment you receive a bill.
The UK government is at fault for never implementing a similar procedure. Why blame the EU?
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn you seem to have left out the bit about the E U citezens that have left their families back home in Europe to come and take up a job on minimum wage and then make a claim for the family through family income support ,for instance you take a job at £200 pw take home the government makes that up to £500 if you have a wife and 3 kids with family credit's ,so the migrants live on £200 pw in the UK and send the other £300 back to the wife and kids in another country this is crazy our country gets poorer and their home country get richer work that one out.
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Win talker you are just making up numbers. The maximum that person would get is £485 per year. That is less than ten pounds per week Not £300 per week
This message was last edited by perrypower1 on 29/11/2016.
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