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Marie.
If you reword it in a way I can understand I will have a bash at commenting, can't promise it will help though. I think you mixed the sentence up somehow
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Best wishes, Brian
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Mickeyfinn
In PM questions on Wednesday the PM, Theresa May, spelt out quite clearly that post Brexit she had to protect UK citizens rights in terms of protecting those UK citizens who reside in Europe, and that any unilateral deal in this regard would not be in their best interests. Doesn't that sound logical Mickeyfinn?
If the EU bureaucrats or other members states leaders start to use them as bargaining chips by "being obstructive as you suspect", then perhaps best that you forward your concerns to them.
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Theres no STAMP DUTY on caravans
I walk EVERYWHERE very healthy
I will go AROUND my neighbours share his HEATER
You dont need a WILL in UK rules of intestate
I pop to TESCO at 9pm and get STEAK CHICKEN for 95p a KILO lasts at least 3 Days FOOD
Expats SHOULD NOT WORRY
If SOMEONE as POOR as me gets by they SHOULD too
Love Hugh xx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Rob,
The Brits are takers from the Spanish economy. That one made me chuckle. They put an enormous amount of money in, via property purchase and taxes that go with it. Wealth tax, car tax, local taxes. They buy furniture, white goods. If Spain can make money out of us, they will. Just think of the burden we relieve the NHS of by not clogging up doctors surgeries and hospital beds. If they came home the ayuntamientos (town halls) would be seriously short of money.
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Citizens should all be looking for solutions that are mutually beneficial here (like Mariedav suggests grown up negotiators)...... but keep your eyes open for bureaucrats and members states leaders who sadly appear intent on being obstructive.in that process. .
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Why is there so much ignorance about the facts of the UK/ES National Health systems??
1/. If a Brit resides in Spain for less than one half of a year, and that Brit is not a resident of Spain, then if that Brit becomes in need of medical care in Spain, then that Brit can have that medical care by using the UK EHIC card. The UK then pays, to Spain, what the care cost(s) came to!
2/. If a Brit resides in Spain for more than half a year, that Brit is regarded, now, as being fully resident in Spain and has to pay income tax on all (all) income, together with all other taxes normally required of any (including Spanish) resident!! Funding for the Spanish Nat. Health system, is paid for from the, already mentioned, Spanish taxes - the UK does not pay anything towards those costs!!
3/. If, and it seems more than highly probable, the UK cannot benefit from being in the EU trading club (not probable because it, the UK, will not accept free movement of all and any citizen of the EU), then any UK citizen resident in Spain (and, even, paying income tax there), will not receive Spanish National Health care if they have not, at the time of the UK actually leaving the EU, been resident for more than 5 years. There will be no UK EHIC card available as that is purely a EU function, so any UK/ES individual will not be medically covered unless by, very expensive, private medical insurance!! Just consider this - if any EU citizen (especially of advance years) were to holiday/visit outside of the EU zone, they would need to take out private insuance (OK, if a Brit or Dutch citizen visits Australia, they are medically covered for 6months). I am going to visit relatives in the USA this month - the medical insurance for 31 days is 750€ !! Just think what it will cost for any Brit visiting the EU when the UK is out!!
Of course, all of this applies to any Brit living/visiting any of the (remaining) 27 EU countries.
The UK is set on a course for the damned. Listening to Norman Lamont last night, typifies the unbelievable arrogance of the true BREXIT fanatic - the, not implied but positive, statements of the ´The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU´, is utter chauvenism in the extreme. If I were not a Brit, but a citizen of the EU, I would be saying ´Such a nation is dangerous and should be allowed to commit suicide without intervention so as to do no more harm!!
Goodbye
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So then Wasin.
How long WILL it take to fill the bath?
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Best wishes, Brian
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Wasin,
The vast majority of pensioners pay little income tax, and most have never worked (legally) in Spain.
Wasin,
I read somewhere that the UK paid over £200m to the Spanish health care system last year.
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Wasin
Holiday travel insurance from a very competitive UK market is much cheaper than you suggest IF
You shop around
Are not over 75
Do not have major pre existing conditions
Travel to the USA and Caribbean is more expensive because of higher cost of medical care there but is relative cheap for Europe.
Are you suggesting EU citizens living in UK will not be able to receive NHS treatments.
I believe Ads has already supplied numbers from the Office of Statistics that thexUK recovers far less from EU countries that they charge the UK due to our inefficiencies.
I suggest this may well see some change after negotiations.
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Don't know what happened with my post of 23.37
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Tenerife
"The Brits are takers from the Spanish economy. That one made me chuckle. They put an enormous amount of money in, via property purchase and taxes that go with it. Wealth tax, car tax, local taxes. They buy furniture, white goods. If Spain can make money out of us, they will. Just think of the burden we relieve the NHS of by not clogging up doctors surgeries and hospital beds. If they came home the ayuntamientos (town halls) would be seriously short of money."
As I tried to explain below, the discussion on costs is nuanced. It may be that the Spaniards here in the UK are young healthy people looking for employment, and so dont go to hospitals much. Whereas the UK Expats may be retirees, who are elderly, and in need of medical care. If thats right, that would explain some of the disparity in the cost structures being discussed.
Funnily enough, you yourself have posted that the majority of Brits in Spain dont work (legally), and therefore wont be contributing much to the tax take, as far as direct taxes are concerned.
Yes, they buy houses and pay the equivalent of stamp duty, but then, so does everyone who comes here to the UK. How much is council tax in Spain? Compared to where I live (Surrey), I would respectfully suggest that council taxes here in the UK are much higher.
And dont forget, we have VAT of 20% here. People who come to live here certainly contribute to the economy, and if they are young and healthy, they will also pay their share of income taxes.
Older retired Brits in Spain wont contribute much after buying their first home, because they dont generally work.
And this leads on to another point raised by Wasin; if Mrs May triggers Brexit on 31 March 2017, then you add the 2 years to make it happen, you get to 31 March 2019. Going on Wasin's comments, if you then backdate 5 years, you get to 31 March 2014. Anyone who moved to Spain after that date, is going to find it difficult, if they cant get reasonably priced medical insurance. What would the end result be? Moving back here to the UK?
Have you seen what has happened to property prices here, even in just the last 2 years? I would be very worried if I were being forced to return to the UK under conditions where property is so much more expensive than it was, and being forced, again, to pay yet another lot of stamp duty, not to mention the families ripped apart.
The medical question is another in a long list that will need to be attended to, if only for people who have genuinely attempted to play by the rules and retired after a lifetime of work, only to find the rug pulled out from under them.
This message was last edited by rob_j1 on 21/10/2016.
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Mariedav refered to this in an earlier post. There is an option for retired Brits in Spain if the S1 form is revoked after Brexit. There is a similar option in France but far more expensive.
Spanish authorities offer a special agreement pay-in scheme, known as Convenio Especial, available to those who may have issues accessing free Spanish healthcare. It is essentially a public health insurance scheme which provides cover in exchange for a monthly fee that is calculated on a number of factors. The previously announced package consisted of a monthly fee of EUR 60 for those aged 65 or under, while those over 65 must pay EUR 157, although variations may exist between regions. However, prescription costs and health transport services do not form part of the cover nor health transport. The scheme is currently being rolled out in a number of regions with a view to being available throughout the country.
Since it is currently regionalised it may be difficult to obtain everywhere. However with prescription costs excluded the costs may make this option impractical. However it is still cheaper than private medical insurance if you can get it which is very unlikely over 65 years of age.
Full details here (in Spanish)
http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_1/Trabajadores/Afiliacion/Conveniosespeciales/index.htm
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 21/10/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Here is a copy of a letter received from the NHS as a result of a request under the freedom of information act. It was written in August 2012 so the figures mentioned will have been increased at least by the rates of inflation.
You can see in the parts of the text I have highlighted that this system is completely dependent on membership of the EU. For it to continue a totally new arrangement will be required. That means negotiated by the UK government with the EU. There are no guarantees of success.
This letter confirms my previous post that the UK pays a fixed annual sum per head for retired pensioners resident in the EU via the form S1. The sum paid is different depending on that nations costs. In France it is about a third higher.
The regulations, which also apply in Iceland , Liechtenstein , Norway and Switzerland , govern the payment and calculation of costs relating to healthcare provided to another countries’ citizens. The UK government’s payments to Spain, to cover the cost of UK pensioners living in Spain, are calculated using an average of what it costs Spain to provide healthcare to its ‘insured’ residents. These costs are subject to scrutiny and approval by the European Commission and all member states. Once approved, the European Commission then arrange for each Member State ’s figures to be published in the official journal of the EU. This enables other Member States to calculate their payments to the Member State concerned.
The latest published figure for Spain’s average costs, for the calendar year 2008, is 3,491.45 Euros. This is the figure used to calculate payments to Spain by all other Member States for their state pensioner’s resident there in that year.
In addition, the regulations also allow Member States to elect to use the actual cost of treatment provided rather than the average cost, as explained above. The UK applies a similar system to that used by Spain; the most recently published UK average cost figure is £3,368.
Yours sincerely,
(SNIP)
Customer Service Centre
Department of Health
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 21/10/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Why the obsession with the IF the UK cancels all RCHA with all EU member states and the S1 etc.
Let's wait until we see what is on the table instead of guessing ......
Time to let this go
What next the EHIC card, tourist visas?????
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Well Theresa May has received the cold shoulder from fellow EU leaders at the Brussels summit, and she was an inner. Perhaps the forum should start a pre-guessing competition in respect of what she will come away with, or more sensibly wait until the summit has concluded. Although no Margaret Thatcher I wager that she wields a very nifty handbag, the likes of Juncker and Tusk are the reason for the exit vote, I am confident that she can handle them,
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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
THANK YOU.
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Wasin said: 2/. If a Brit resides in Spain for more than half a year, that Brit is regarded, now, as being fully resident in Spain and has to pay income tax on all (all) income, together with all other taxes normally required of any (including Spanish) resident!! Funding for the Spanish Nat. Health system, is paid for from the, already mentioned, Spanish taxes - the UK does not pay anything towards those costs!!
That is basically wrong - your taxes do not cover health care, your Social Security contributions do. If you do not pay Social Security, then you are not entitled to state health care.
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I call it desperation.
A Conservative councillor in Surrey, Christian Holliday, has launched a petition calling for support of UK membership of the European Union to be declared treason.
Yup. It is for real. Remain voters as well as the Goverment have never had a problem with Euro Sceptics having a fair and public say about being in or out. Indeed it was a pledge by DC who was clearly Remain to give the public a voice.. So not only do we have leave politicians saying OUR Parliament cannot have a vote on Article.50 but this one what's to make it a very serious criminal offence.
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Yes, just the one, so why did tou bother posting it?
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Pitby
If you were from another EU country, and you moved to Spain to live (lets assume for retirement, hence nothing would come out of wages), you wouldnt have made any contributions into Spanish Social Security.
Is it your understanding that these people would be denied emergency medical treatment?
I've seen Mickyfinns post on the convenio - what is your take on the convenio, and where it fits in (or not)?
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Tadd wrote:
Why the obsession with the IF the UK cancels all RCHA with all EU member states and the S1 etc.
Let's wait until we see what is on the table instead of guessing ......
Because this forum's thread and it's reason for being is to try and inform the members of the potential pitfalls of Brexit with exchange of information. Losing healthcare is a fairly important issue for older people. Personally I prefer to be informed about potential grief coming down the tracks even if it's just a possibility, I hate surprises but that's a personal view. However if you prefer to be a mushroom Tadd that's fine too and if I am worrying you I apologise. Perhaps just ignoring the thread is a solution.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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