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Sorry windtalker, are you saying you don't think those of us who live in Spain should be able to vote?
In which case, can you please tell HMRC to stop taking thousands of pounds off me in tax each year. Unless it's OK to pay tax to a country but have no say in what happens there.
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Presumably the MEPs stay in place until all final negotiations associated with any exit are finished? Perhaps everyone should be writing to their MEPs and pose all the serious questions raised within this thread and report back their findings?
www.writetothem.co.uk
This message was last edited by ads on 26/02/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 26/02/2016.
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I'm not sure if I mentioned it before but I did, well, to the one who was my MEP back in UK one Emma McLarkin. Yes, I did get a reply. The gist of it was that no-one would know how it would affect those living in another EU country as the negotiations hadn't yet started and wouldn't until the referendum was completed (the date wasn't known when I wrote). It did mention guarded rights under other agreements but was very non-committal regarding pensions and so on.
My Spanish isn't good enough to write to my MEP in Spain but I was speaking to a bloke in the bar who said he had done so but hadn't received a reply. Wonder if he's Tony and knows Roberto?
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I may be wrong but as I understood the rules, people who have lived outside the Uk for more than 15 years wouldn't get a vote anyway, regardless of where they pay their tax. Johnzx may know the answer to this as he would be one of the ones affected by this rule.
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The Brexit I don't know why the the expats in Spain are so concerned about the land of milk and honey. haven't you all turned your back on Great Britain to become Spanish residents .
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They are not concerned about the land of milk and honey
They they are concerned about the possibility of their pensions being frozen, and their free health care being stopped!
no one can give an answer about that, and that is why many will vote to remain in the EU.
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Camposol I think you have hit the nail on the head the British that have been living in Spain full time for a number of years have not got a clue about the politics that surround the EU in or out vote as you said Truck you Jack as long as I am alright.
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Of course we don't know anything about it. After all, we don't get newspapers, have access to the internet or even British TV. We all sit around our swimming pools sipping Cava and going out to pick an orange now and again.
None of us have any family in UK so never, ever visit the place. We shall, of course, now let you well-informed, politically wise people debate who is the most stupid out of all us and simply sit back and allow you to tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth you believe is correct. I won't bother to read any more as, after all, I have my balustrades to paint and make sure the donkeys going past don't leave too much muck on the roads.
In your own time, carry on.
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Baboal we that live and work in the UK don't have to read News papers or go on the internet or watch the news on TV to see what is happening to the UK all we have to do is open the front door to see what is going on what a mess this country is in with refuge's /illegal immigrants/ and Europeans sucking the UK dry l dread to think what is going to happen when Turkish and the Bosnians join the so called EU.
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I know many expats will want the UK to stay in the EU for there own reasons NOW, but many xpats we want to return to the UK at some time, but what will they have to come back to ? Of my friends I am yet to speak to anyone who wants to stay in the EU, just saying.
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And the 'outs' continue to get ever more anxious. Come on do you think we are all dumb. How is not being in the EU going to stop refugees from coming to the UK. It isn't.
And what kind of a campaign has to run itself on the basis that it's only a 'test' vote. If we vote out we really don't have to leave the EU. But if you don't give us everything we want we might just actually maybe kinda leave...after another vote.
The outs are no longer desperate they are delusional.
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Oh and just to add. No illegal immigrants are EU citizen's. The two are mutually exclusive groups.
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Tt's looking as though it could go down to penalties. 
_______________________
I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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It is a tragedy this debate in the media has been reduced to relatively trivial issues such as personalities, immigration or social housing needs. I am not saying some of these subjects don’t impact people’s lives, they do and have a place.
However the EU project is about far more than that.
The world is a global market place and individual countries have to trade with each other to survive without tariff barriers. All major Germany industrial companies for instance have created subsidiary companies in the UK. French retail giants have created branches all over Spain. Also 50% of all UK exports are sold to the EU. If Britain votes to leave the EU all these relocated companies will reconsider their position. Britain will have to out of necessity renegotiate every single contract arrangement and treaty it currently enjoys. Not one single politician of any colour can predict the outcome of that. Tariff free exports will cease until new treaties are agreed.
The EU is also about preventing European nations from going to war with each other. The history of Europe in the 500 years before 1945 saw constant wars and destruction between nations that are now friends. NATO is not designed to prevent wars between its members. NATO exists as a bulwark against external forces threatening alliance nations.
The EU is also about giving its people more opportunities to prosper, to live, export our financial assets and retire in different nations. To learn new skills and develop a wider knowledge experience of the world around us. All this as a human right without barriers or bureaucratic hassles.
Britain is an island nation and that does create a rather insular view of the world among its people. The USA does something the same because of its sheer size. I also acknowledge that most people are only concerned really with issues which affect them in the daily lives and vote accordingly. I believe many Britain’s have taken for granted all the benefits of EU membership. My generations can easily remember when the Europe was a very different place, largely hostile to foreigners.
This issue is far too serious just to vote ‘leave’ because of domestic concerns that can be overcome by negotiation. It is nothing less about the future of Britain. Its prosperity and well-being for several generations. If it votes to leave Britain will be in danger of becoming nothing more than an off shore island to mainstream Europe. It will be largely politically ignored, shunned by foreign investment and its people presented with difficulties when venturing across the channel they have yet to experience.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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mickyfinn
I was going to give a like to that post except for calling immigration and social housing needs a trivial issue. I think they are now the major issues that impact on overcrowded schools, overcrowded GP lists and so on.
Cameron didn't exactly do very well on the re-negotiating front when adherence to EU rules on residency would alleviate many of these problems. Setting up an EU register, proof of sufficient funds and medical cover required like other countries do.
Then again, I believe those who think immigration will stop overnight if UK withdraws are deluding themselves. Of the 330,000 net increase in immigration to UK last year, 14% were returning expats and 44% were from outside the EU. That's well over half that wouldn't be affected by a Brexit as they would still keep coming.
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Well, the Great British public have voted.
Joe & Jake will represent the UK in Europe. Why bother with the referendum? We should just hang our heads in shame and leave quietly.
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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bobaol.
I did clarify that remark. I was attempting to put the wider, in my view greater issues in a sort of context. In fact you may believe Cameron failed in his negociations but he did at least achieve some concessions. The UK is a special case status. If we remain in the EU we can still persist in achieving more. Mrs T managed it on the rebate question. If UK leaves then out is out as BOJO said this morning. I submit there is then likely to be a question posed to DC by the commission. 'What part of OUT don't you understand'?
The remaining EU states are unlikely in my view to offer anything as UK tries to negotiate membership of the EEA. The next step will be on their terms only.
A bit like the ex wife trying to grap it all after the divorce.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Not wanting to focus solely on migration issues, but just wondered if the govt are currently using any form of points system with non EU citizens coming to the UK?
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It is only my opinion, and there will be other differing opinions, but:
There appears to be a hell of a lot of 'scaremongering' going on about how trade would be affected if the 'out vote' won.
As for 'tarrif free exports', surely this works both ways and trade is a 'two way street', should unfair tarrifs be levied upon our exports to the EU, asd part of the negotiations we would obviously advocate the same tarrifs for imports to the UK.
Would the likes of Germany & France not really have taken into account the exports they send to the UK?, ie. Audi, Volkswagon, Citroen, Peugot, BMW, would they really want to be adding unfair tarrifs to their prices? These companies (like ours) need to compete and to have their prices unfairly increased they would be trading at a disadvantage to their rivals who are not in the EU.
Don't get me wrong I am neither advocating 'in or out' at this stage as I believe more credible arguments and points of view will be forthcoming over the coming weeks.
Some have poo. poo'd the idea about an 'out vote' bringing about better negotiated settlement for the UK, I do not believe this for one moment (but at the moment this is all conjecture as no-one actually knows the answer to this one).
Just as some are saying 'the UK has too much to lose' by voting out, I truly believe that 'the EU has too much to lose by us voting 'out'.
When this is is all over I will be glad to abide by whatever the decision is that's taken, it's a difficult call because there are many points to consider either way, but one thing is for sure NO-ONE knows what things will look like should the UK vote 'out'.
As I said at the start of this message: 'JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION, I know no more than the next man or woman, but by the same token they most probably don't know any more than me.
This message was last edited by BigAl2015 on 27/02/2016.
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The EU was a trading block that has developed into a political union. It is not about stopping war between European countries. Democracies do not got to war with one another and NATO has protected us from outside threats.
It may well be that countries locked into a trading or political block are unlikely to go to war with one another but, as stated, there is no case of democracies going to war with one another. It would be more true to say that democratization has made war less likely between most European states.
You could perhaps argue (if you wanted to play devils advocate) that the EU makes a war more likely because you are constructing two monoliths facing each other across the Urals. Certainly if The Ukraine had joined the EU we would have been on a sticky wicket when Russia annexed the Crimea.
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