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Always look on the bright side. Tadd1966 do you want to borrow a shilling for the gas oven?.
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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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Al -The 'idle speculation' is that you say they want but won't get, the 'won't get' is what is idle speculation
It is not I that says the British won't get what they want. It's the head of most of the remaining 27 nations within the EU.
Sweden has been a close ally of Britain, but it too has warned that London cannot cherry pick which rules it follows once outside the EU. “You cannot have free movement of goods and services and capital and not people,” Prime Miniter Stevan Lofven said recently.
Unless you believe the EU is prepared to turn it's back on the four freedoms or the Brits will water down their migration curbs then it's clear the UK cannot have single market access.Instead of accepting the free movement of workers, it has been suggested the UK could agree to some degree of labour mobility whilst exerting some control.
However the 27 member parliaments would need to ratify that even if it it could be agreed. I think it's highly unlikely given the hawkish stance from most of Europes leaders.
The free movement of people is by no means the only obstacle to UK-EU agreements post-Brexit. Deeper access to the Single Market may also involve demands to pay into the EU budget and accept relevant EU rules, for example. The City’s “passporting” rights for financial services to do business in Europe is also a matter of contention and subject to agreements.
I agree with Tadd the worst is yet to come but principally and initially for the British living abroad on a Sterling income. The pain for UK residents will come more slowly with out of control inflation due to the weakness of Sterling. The B of E will be forced to push up interest rates and mortgages, rent and food will cost considerably more. The signs are already there.
Brexit carries nothing positive for anyone. Except a few populists politicians who will have their comeuppance.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 06/01/2017.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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- Free access to the single market.
- Prohibition of free movement of people.
- No EU budget contributions.
- Released from the jurisdictions of the ECJ.
- All current EU laws transferred into British law.
- Separate trade deals with the USA, Canada and anyone else they can find willing.
1. Both sides denied this was possible before the referendum.
2. No. Control of borders is what is required.
3. Eventually, but there is bound to be some cross over payments.
4. Up to legislation by our soverign government once we have left.
5. A sensible first step to aid the progression towards the will of our parliament.
6. Nothing to do with the negociations in a clean break, but see below.
Step five is a sensible action, whatever the course of the negociations. It allows our government to change legislation as necessary and on whatever timetable it sees fit.
A good outcome for both sides which could be reached quickly would be a paper breach where we became independant of the EU on a fixed date but would be free to slowly release ouselves or change as we saw fit our legislation after that date and would not be subject to any new EU directives. It would mean that there would be continuing negociations every-time we wanted to alter our laws in ways that breached the (now non existant) treaty.
Such an agreement could be reached in a very short time. There is no chance (there never was) that we would remain in the single market since the very first change we would make is to take control of our borders. But trade would be largely unaffected (a result necessary for EU exports to us). And yes it might take up to ten years for complete disentanglement but the initial negociations could be over in much less than two years.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 06/01/2017.
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Change that to two shillings one for you and one for Micky.
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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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Brexit carries nothing positive for anyone.
Even a slump would have been positive based on the predictions of project fear. But the economy goes from strength to strength.
BREXIT is the most positive thing that has happened to the UK in my lifetime.
We regain our freedom and democracy.
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Correction - Brexit carries nothing positive for anyone except a bunch of outers who have yet to understand the pain of it. You aint seen nothing yet.
For a reality check read and sign up for Bloombergs Brexit Bulletin. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-06/brexit-bulletin-unhappy-new-year
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 06/01/2017.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I have enjoyed freedom and democracy all my life
Have had more freedom and the same democracy as an EU citizen
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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OK Tadd, Micky and the rest. We are all totally convinced everything you say is absolutely correct and beyond question. You are the wise men of the world. So now tell all EOS members what we should be doing.
There is no need to post anymore arguments and facts, the penny has dropped. Just give us the benefit of your knowledge of what we have to do.
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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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tteedd
BREXIT is the most positive thing that has happened to the UK in my lifetime.
We regain our freedom and democracy.
That's one of my problems - I never felt we had lost it!
I always felt that it was better to be at the top table in Europe shaping the future and being part of the decision making process for the benifit of all UK citizens rather than retreat into our little island state
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72 times we went to the top table 72 times we went away with SFA they have always hated us ,best out of it .
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Potblack
Simple really stay in the eu and work towards improving the eu for the benefit of every citizen and equality for all
Prioroty should be a common eu wide welfare state, health care . Education. housing, pensions
It may take years but we need to take the first steps so why not now
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah, what a laugh....
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Tadd, we've been trying for years to no avail..... And the irony is that many who migrated to live or retire in Spain, and are now feeling vulnerable by Brexit, turned blind eyes to the constant calls to unite as citizens to pressure for reform over the years. to strive for a more flexible system that pays greater attention to the interest of citizens ( don't wan't to repeat again) but suffice to say there comes a point when you acknowledge you're hitting your head against a brick wall.
To my mind if the EU refuses to look for mutual benefits in the years of negotiations ahead then this will only reaffirm many people's conclusions that the bureaucrats have no intention of reforming, no intention to comprehend or resolve the issues that have bought us to this point.
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Tadd1966
Potblack
Simple really stay in the eu
Yes, yes, yes we all got that. But how, tell us all, stop keeping everything secret. I will ask you again WHAT DO YOU WANT US ALL TO DO. You and your mates have persuaded us, but we do not know what you are asking us to do.
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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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You have to be a member of a club in order to reform the rules. Britain along with Germany was making some progress, albeit desperately slow, towards modernising the EU.
The British public expectation is out of sync with the actualité. France has been needing many serious economic, social and structural reforms in the last thirty years. It failed to deliver them because those reforms cut across the powerful vested interest groups that run France and used to run Britain prior to Mrs. Thatcher.
The country has now acknowledged that necessity with François Fillion a likely winner in the coming presidential race. Real reform means a large section of the community loses something. Given that turkeys don’t vote for Christmas and majority consent is a necessity in carrying EU business its unsurprising reforms come dropping slow.
With Brexit comes an international acknowledgement that Britain has lost all the power and influence in the world it once had. It is reduced to a small over crowded island that is hostile to immigration and which can easily be ignored by other nations without consequence.
After Brexit I expect Gibraltar will be forced to concede joint sovereignty to Spain. Argentina will be moving toward control of the Falkland Islands. The EU will ignore a post Brexit Britain. The special relationship with the USA which weakened considerably under Obama is perhaps Britain’s only ‘Trump’ card left..
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Great post Micky but we already know all that. We do read newspapers, have television and some members even have computers with internet.
What are you actually wanting us to do?.
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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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He wants you to stay in the corrupt club, pretending that it can change.. It can't
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What are you actually wanting us to do?.
1. Concede free movement of EU workers must continue.
2. Britain to sign up and become an EEA or EFTA member state.
3. Call a general election based on the issues above.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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But Micky how can EOS members do these things?. We live in Spain not 10 Downing Street. We are just a handful of British citizens out of 64.1 million. The country has had a democratic referendum where everyone had a vote.
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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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Have I missed the remainers opinions to the BOE's statement regarding it's flawed predictions? After all these predictions were pushed down the Brexiteers throats when the remainers had placed Mark Carney one step lower than god.
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