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It's also been suggested by some that nobody knows what will happen if the UK remains In the EU.....
I very much doubt Turkey will ever gain accession to the EU. France and Germany will veto it because their populations are dead set against it. However it plays well in the Brexit camp fear tactics. There is also the lack of democratic accountability and press freedom which breaches the conditions of accession. The president is a megalomaniac who cares nothing for liberal values.
OMG! All those Turkish criminals can come to UK any time they want. Except most Turkish have strong family ties in Germany and to a lesser degree in France.
The migrant crisis will not change the wide spread opposition to Turkey accession. Merkle would be out on her ear if she chose to support it.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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It's also been suggested by some that nobody knows what will happen if the UK remains In the EU.....
Pretty much stay the same and we know what we get and we will still have a say in the future of the EU. Which is far better than the unkonw and uncertainity, unanswered questions of an exit
Whatever DC agreed is not 100% clear and still as I understand it some time before it is finallyagreed and ratifed - I may be wrong.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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this is the main probelm I see for the exiters - nobody knows what will happen
The main problem for the inners is that everyone can see what is likely to happen if we stay.
If I were leading negotiations after a BREXIT vote I would propose that our contributions be reduced by one twelth each two months and that internal tariffs remain exactly as they are. The first is in line with expectations and the second would put the ball firmly at the feet of the EU.
Meanwhile EU external tariffs would be removed for the UK and migration policy would be whatever the UK government chose it to be.
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Hep has pointed out that the EU has done me some good!
I have neither taken drugs or smoked since we have been in the EEC/EU.
However I expect I will resist the temptation if we leave.
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If I were leading negotiations after a BREXIT vote
tteedd you might do a good job
Another key point the UK will NOT be leading any negotiations if the UK exits and the UK will certainly NOT get everything its own way with the EU or any other nation
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I thought the EU have already reached an agreement with Turkey subject to conditions of course which is why the Turkish pm responded the way he did. In other words there is no definitive stop on migrants coming across from Turkey again if they smell a hint of retraction on speeding up of access. That was the only reason Turkey agreed to stemming of migrants from their shores. They unfortunately appeared to have the upper hand.
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I presume that it would be racist to state that 3% of the northwest of Turkey, half of Istanbul, and 10% of the total population are technically on the European continent, the rest being in Asia, however the total population is 99% Muslim.
Perhaps we should use Eurovision Song Contest rules and invite Israel to join the EU. 
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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The EU and Turkey agreed that:
1) All new irregular migrants crossing from Turkey to the Greek islands as of 20 March 2016 will be returned to Turkey;
2) For every Syrian being returned to Turkey from the Greek islands, another Syrian will be resettled to the EU;
3) Turkey will take any necessary measures to prevent new sea or land routes for irregular migration opening from Turkey to the EU;
4) Once irregular crossings between Turkey and the EU are ending or have been substantially reduced, a Voluntary Humanitarian Admission Scheme will be activated;
5) The fulfilment of the visa liberalisation roadmap will be accelerated with a view to lifting the visa requirements for Turkish citizens at the latest by the end of June 2016. Turkey will take all the necessary steps to fulfil the remaining requirements;
6) The EU will, in close cooperation with Turkey, further speed up the disbursement of the initially allocated €3 billion under the Facility for Refugees in Turkey. Once these resources are about to be used in full, the EU will mobilise additional funding for the Facility up to an additional €3 billion to the end of 2018;
7) The EU and Turkey welcomed the ongoing work on the upgrading of the Customs Union.
8) The accession process will be re-energised, with Chapter 33 to be opened during the Dutch Presidency of the Council of the European Union and preparatory work on the opening of other chapters to continue at an accelerated pace;
9) The EU and Turkey will work to improve humanitarian conditions inside Syria.
Point 8, accession requires a unanimous vote of all EU states. It 'aint going to happen. Lifting visa requirements is not the same thing as migration of Turkish citizens en-masse entering the UK. Visas are not required by the UK for many other countries on the planet.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I wonder if teh UK exits will teh EU then give the UK 3 billion euros to take in refugees same as Turkey
might be a bonus or a new spin for the exiters
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Mickeyfinn on 3rd May this interview with Ilnur Cevik (the senior adviser to the Turkish President) took place.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTu_vACSwGs
The inference from this implies that Turkey is looking to the EU to fulfil its promises by end June, and the message relayed was that if the EU renege on visa free travel for Turkish citizens to Europe by then, that the deal to assist with curbing migration from its shores would be off.
This message was last edited by ads on 31/05/2016.
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Yes I have no argument about visa free travel in Europe for Turkish people. A visitors visa usually is valid for three months anyway and that time limit will presumably still apply. If any Turk wishes to remain in Europe after the standard time a permit will then be needed.
Visa free travel is very common nowadays. If you look on Wikipedia its easier to list the counties without visa free than with. I'm not sure why it's an issue. Syrian refugees in Turkey are not Turkish passport holders.
Full accession to EU membership for Turkey is another matter however and as I have said unlikely to happen.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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So all Turkish citizens who will no longer need to have a visa to enter European countries will have to be monitored by all countries after entering thereafter?
Do all European Countries have adequate safeguards of in/ out movements in place for visa free travel of this nature as opposed to free movement of people for all accession countries?
At the end of a 3 month period is there currently a common database across Europe to enable blocking of passport holders who exceed 3 months?
How does the UK currently manage movements for visa free travel?
Would all Turkish citizens be allowed to apply for work permits during this 3 month period in Europe, thus adding to the migrant population?
This message was last edited by ads on 31/05/2016.
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ads:
Why are you making Turkey an issue? Why not Morocco, Tunisia or any of the Stan countries of the former Soviet Union? Most South American states have visa free travel to Europe. There is a long list.
It's like anything else in a liberal democracy people are not monitored to the extent you suggest. We don't live in a police state, either in the EU or the UK. If people break the law and over stay they are dealt with by arrest and deportation. Forgive me but you do seem obsessed with control, governance and regulation.
I used to live in Turkey for a while and it was a real hassle renewing my visa every three months. If you didn't bother and you tried to leave the country after over staying, a fine of lots of cash resulted.
Visa free travel is an integral part of a global market place. Global trade and free movement. If Britain votes to leave the EU are you advocating closing Britain down? Because ending visa free travel will likely have that effect and most expats will have to repatriate themselves back to UK causing more people pressure.
The Turks will be able to apply for a work permit in the usual way and an extension to their visa by proving they can support themselves. If not they will be requires to leave. There are standard provcedures in place that apply to all none EU nations.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 31/05/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I'm not obsessed Mickeyfinn but as with most British citizens am trying to identify the realities associated with migration of people and IF there are controls in place , what controls are currently in place and for whom, and what impact that has on the current problems that many British citizens have expressed during this referendum debate and the ability to administer controls where required. Turkey has been identified as a concern in this debate.
I'm sure you are not meaning to deny people knowledge are you Mickeyfinn?
This message was last edited by ads on 31/05/2016.
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Why do people go on about border controls into the UK they currently exist and are very good?
What will change and what EXTRA control wil the Uk have if an exit?
Nobody can pass through any UK border have to go through passport control and have the appropriate ID - there is NO open border between UK & EU as UK are not part of Schengen. Even if you travel to NI or Eire you need valid ID to get on ferry or plane
Just been listrening to Michael Gove on BBC - what a joke of an attempt to sell exit to anyone!!!
He promoted that the UK could remove VAT from domestic energy bills if UK exits he was then asked WOULD you do it and he could not answer all he said it would be up to the govt.
He then added that if we exit the millions we pay the EU could be redirected to reduce VAT from energy bills which he already said he could not guarantee and put more funds into the NHS - how can he say that withoit ANY knowledge or clear commitment from the govt
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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** EDITED - off thread **
This message was last edited by Hephaestus on 31/05/2016.
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 5/31/2016 11:27:00 PM.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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It has been suggested on this thread that the UK do have a problem without adequate monitoring of in/ out and it is the UK govts fault so I'm assuming that you do not consider this correct? Given the problems already identified on this thread, any further increase in movements needs to be planned for and controlled if deemed necessary, do they not?
National controls appear to be of concern to many European countries and not just the UK.
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ads wrote
I'm sure you are not meaning to deny people knowledge are you Mickeyfinn?
Not all. I’m just trying to counter balance some of the mis-information of the Brexit camp although I'm sure you are not part of that. I have heard some misplaced anxiety about Turkey. Not so much on here but elsewhere.
The Turkish people are among some of the warmest, friendliest and most decent people on the planet. I can speak from experience. Whenever did the British become so afraid of people from other lands? It needs a sense of proportion. The British are probably under greater threat from their own people than from Turkey.
Tadd is right. UK border controls will not change even if the vote is to leave the EU. The current status quo will remain,
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn please don't suggest that when the subject of controls and the impact of numbers of migrants are addressed and the impact on a member state, that the implication of warmth of citizens forms part of that equation. That is an inflammatory statement.
By doing so, you are not recognising genuine concerns, vulnerabilities and realities expressed by British citizens ( who are in the main extremely tolerant and very charitable) with regard to the impact on their country.
This message was last edited by ads on 31/05/2016.
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Come off it ads I did not suggest that Please don't put words in my mouth. I merely stated my own feelings and observations about a people I know well.
British concerns about migrants are largely inflamed by the media and politicians with an agenda. The curent controls the UK have in place are adequate. They will remain in place after the referendum whatever the result. There is little to fear. Unless of course Brexit happens and the French decide to walk away from the arrangements with UK border controls in Calais.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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