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Is there anything that the In Campaign(s) can do NOW to bring this requirement for reform ( to ensure greater accountability of MEPs and EU Commissioners, plus the requirement for greater monitoring procedures to be put in place to deter corruption and inefficient use of resources) , to make an urgent FORMAL statement ( put on record) and thereby bring to the attention of the European Commission and all MEPs these major and legitimate concerns of those pushing for exit, in order to gain a response of their commitment and willingness to review and prioritorise this major problem? No better time to start an organised effort????
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Ads:
I believe DC has made many speeches and appeals to the EU highlighting the need for reforms and supported by Mrs Merkle. I recall one such speech when he mentioned he would fight for reform and change from inside the block if the UK remains. The public will hold him to account for that if he does not deliver.
The campaign by its nature must appeal to the average voter who, to be honest cares only how the EU affects them in the daily lives. Your concerns are admirable and necessary but the politicians would lose the public if they campaigned on them.
An example of that was watching Mr Corbyn make a pro EU 'IN' speech yesterday. It was like watching paint dry with the same enthusiasm.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn, after watching several BBC Question Time programs from various regions around the country, and as the public's knowledge base grows, (albeit at times confusingly), I think you underestimate the public's concerns re wanting adequate reform of the EU and their desire for far greater accountability, not only of their representatives in Europe but also their desire for effective mechanisms to tackle corruption and innefficiency.
Without a plan of action or explanations of existing mechanisms to achieve reform, or commitment in the form of identifying actual work in progress by representive groups withinthe EU, I fear the public's distrust will only grow.
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Honestly ads I don't think your average Daily Mirror reader Joe down the pub gives a hoot about those things you mention. I accept many Guardian readers may or even middle Englanders may but the masses? I don't think so. Mind you they are less likely to vote so I guess you have a point.
This referendum will be won hands down if young people get out and vote. Most of the exiteers are over 50 according to surveys I have read. The Goldilocks generation who are doing very nicely thank you. In no small part because Britain prospered in Europe.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Well Micky,
You know more than me, most of the Mirror readers that I know buy it because of the sport/racing coverage and vote Labour in their numbers. Perhaps you're confusing them with Sun readers, who don't care who's running the country as long as they have big boobs. 
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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The beauty of Question Time is the audience participation is taken each week from a wide selection of the population from all age groups and political persuasions, from those not necessarily politically motivated, from those who live within the tv region being covered that week (identifying local concerns as well as wider regional concerns) , etc, in other words it covers a very wide range of views and perspectives. It's fascinating to learn from the topical questions and answers covered each week and recognise over a period of time local, regional, national and global concerns, so a great way of gaining a better appreciation of the voting populations' views, whether you agree with them or not.
This message was last edited by ads on 15/04/2016.
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I'm a newbie on here so forgive me if I may be a little slow........
As someone who wants to eventually emigrate to Spain, which is why I joined this thread, I am firmly voting to stay. Although to be honest, I agree with staying in the EU anyway. I am quite surprised that as a forum of ex-pats living in another country some of you are so opposed to Britain having free movement?!
As for young people not being interested and won't vote, I think the youngsters have more interest than they are credited for. In a recent vote at my sons school ( all sixth formers and old enough to vote) the pretty much overall consensus was to stay in, perhaps surprisingly.
This message was last edited by Babbasue70 on 15/04/2016.
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@babbasue. Why would you be surprised at some Brits objecting to unlimited immigration into the UK by, for example, tens of thousands of recently-minted Italian/Greek/German, etc passport holders whose origins might be North Africa or God knows where, and who - once they get EU citizenship - can settle anywhere in the EU, with a historical proclivity for UK and its benfit systems.
There is no "free movement" between UK and most countries in the world, and yet that doesn't stop Brits settling pretty much anywhere they want on the planet - as they have done for the past 300 years at least - providing they can support themselves with their own capital or skills; or, similarly, Americans or Russians, for example, settling in UK. Although Obama is eager for UK to remain in the EU, the USA wouldn't accept a situation where they had no control on who could enter the USA to live. Why would Brits?
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I think the Brexit supporters on here, it seems to me, mostly have their hearts and minds in the UK. I could be wrong and I'm sure I'll soon be told. If you are committed to living in Europe why would you not want the UK to remain part of it?
I have lived in Europe for 35 years and no longer feel personally attachment to the UK. However I want the EU project to succeed with Britain being a part of it. I want future generations of Europeans to live together in peace, harmony and solidarity of purpose.
My childhood was dominated by war and its aftermath. I don't want that to affect anyone ever again. The EU project will ensure it does not. Nationalism and separation means war. Unity between differing peoples with a common aim means peace.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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GuyT.
Why do you believe leaving the EU would make any difference to immigration into the UK? The reason immgrants want to settle in the UK is because the economy is strong and employment easier. Statistics and surveys show they do NOT come seeking benefits.
Leaving the EU will not change anything related to immigration. That is because the UK will need to join the EEA after Brexit which carries the same rules as membership of the EU but without the power to influence policy.
Free movement of people and capital has to continue. Britain cannot survive economically without being part of a single market somewhere.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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@GuyT. If you choose to live elsewhere, presumeably for the lifestyle and because that's your choice why do you object to others doing the same? That's the part that I don't get when ex-pats get on their high horses and say that they will vote OUT. I think it's a bit rich that's all but I'm aware that's it may only be my opinion.
I want to be able to emigrate and embrace the lifestyle and that includes speaking the language and I think that should be the case for all.
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I think Boris hit the nail on the head yesterday. Everyone, including Cameron, thinks the EU as a political construction is crap. But some are too frightened to leave. There is no idealism amongst the remainers; they are just paralysed by the fear of the unknown. The Brits would never have colonised half the world if they’d had this attitude of it being better to stay put and not rock the boat. Let’s go for broke and take some chances.
Anyway, I think by this stage we’re all preaching to the converted, one way or another. I’ll revisit this thread next on Independence Day – Friday 24th.
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Micky the above is the tip of the iceberg, millions of £££'s were mentioned, these two were named and look like they come from Africa, so how can you honestly say they don't come looking for benefits.
The reason they want to come to the UK is because the UK is a very tolerant country, for them that is, we tolerate every thing they don't like about this country.
Employment is easier is it? 3.000 people queued the other day for a handful of jobs in Wales, the steel works sale is still not guaranteed, a couple of years ago it was hard to get any one to fill a job, now you place an advert and crowds turn up for two vacancies, whats that tell you? To many people for to few jobs perhaps.
As they walk down an East London street, Dennis Kyeyune and Lamulah Sekiziyuvu both look carefree.
They live in separate rent-free taxpayer-funded flats because neither is working, and each takes home £500 a month in benefits because they claim that they have depression.
Behind the smiles, however, there is a more sinister side to Kyeyune and Sekiziyuvu. Both were members of a notorious nine-strong gang that stole more than £4million in benefits.
Another little bit about those who dont come to the UK looking for benefits.
This message was last edited by baz1946 on 16/04/2016.
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Let’s go for broke
You said it GuyT
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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baz.
The tabloid press can always dig up examples to suit their cause. Of course some cheat the system and so by the way do British people born and raised in the UK for generations.
These are not reasons to leave a massive political project that is far greater than any of us or a few benefit spongers. There is a big picture here that some politicians cannot or refuse to see. Boris Johnson simply is campaigning to be the next PM. He is unscrupulously betting the farm on DC leaving if Brexit happens. Shame on him he won’t be forgiven if he loses.
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_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I wonder how many of the out campaigners would vote to remain in, but only if commitment, willingness and ABILITY to adequately reform the system was confirmed in a formalised statement by the European Commission and Parliamentarians? Reform required to tackle corruption, greater accountability, complacency, ability to tackle the migration crisis, and major inefficiences that is.
It seems extraordinary that the EU Commission have provided little reassurances with regard to citizens understandable concerns relating to reform, concerns I might add which have been expressed by both the in and out campaigners.
What does this tell you of the priority and commitment given by the Commission to recognise and tackle necessary reform, reform considered vital to the future of the EU by the majority of EU citizens?
Shouldn't we all be working as one on this and pressurising the EU Commission to be far more proactive, if we are ever to gain reform?
This message was last edited by ads on 16/04/2016.
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baz1946
Why does that article say to you that the UK should leave the EU? They are from Uganda, they have nothing to do with the EU and nowhere in the article does it mention the EU. They are in UK because of UK rules, nothing to do with the EU. The EU says we should treat EU citizens the same as UK citizens regarding benefits, nothing about anyone from Uganda. Do you really think leaving the EU will make UK stop paying money to Africans? They should have been kicked out but the UK has not done so, not because the EU tells them they can't but because the UK hasn't got around to doing it or some judge has said it would be against the UK Human Rights Act or something else just as stupid.
Still, blaming the EU for UK failings seems to be the norm.
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Yes ads we should.
Imagine standardised property laws throughout the EU. A central vehicle licensing authority, banking laws applied universally with the Eurozone. A tx system equally applied across all member nations.
A politically federal Europe with individual states running their own affairs within federal laws similar to the USA.
'I have a dream'.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Why does that article say to you that the UK should leave the EU? They are from Uganda, they have nothing to do with the EU and nowhere in the article does it mention the EU. They are in UK because of UK rules, nothing to do with the EU. The EU says we should treat EU citizens the same as UK citizens regarding benefits, nothing about anyone from Uganda. Do you really think leaving the EU will make UK stop paying money to Africans? They should have been kicked out but the UK has not done so, not because the EU tells them they can't but because the UK hasn't got around to doing it or some judge has said it would be against the UK Human Rights Act or something else just as stupid.
Still, blaming the EU for UK failings seems to be the norm.
Your correct it didn't say anything about the EU, and I never mentioned it either, I answered Mickys post really about what he said, that immigrants don't come here for the benefits, they do because of the free way these are paid out, and one day a week I work with many of them, you wouldn't believe what they tell me.
Yes, you are correct in that if we leave the EU many still wont be kicked out because of how our stupid system works.
Micky also mentioned how easy it is to get work here in the UK, thats best told to some who have been trying for work for many months even a year or two..... And I am not talking about the work-shy either.
Micky also said how the media makes / can use anything to fit the cause, then quotes statistics and surveys that show otherwise, so I suppose they are the truth then.
As it happens I think the EU gets the blame for everything but thats the down side of running an idiotic system, if you come out with crazy things what do you expect?
I have a taxi driver friend who some months ago in a friendly debate said we should get out, no questions asked, four months ago he bought a house in Spain, best thing he ever did,fantastic, retiring to Spain soon, now he's moaning, almost in tears, big time, that he doesn't know what will happen if we leave, running scared, he now regrets buying.
For all the info on here and everywhere else...No one person knows what will happen if we leave, could be worse if we stay.
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@mickeyfinn
Imagine standardised property laws throughout the EU. A central vehicle licensing authority, banking laws applied universally with the Eurozone. A tx system equally applied across all member nations.
A politically federal Europe with individual states running their own affairs within federal laws similar to the USA.
'I have a dream'.
It doesn't even work like that in the United States of America. They have no standardised property law, no central vehicle licensing authority (or even a standardised driving license, come to that), building codes vary from state to state, the tax system is different in every state with differering rates of sales tax and duty ($12.50 for a pack of cigarettes in New York State but go across to Virginia and they're $4), some states have a 12% sales tax and others are zero. Each state votes on its own laws regarding many different things.
Dream on mickey, dream on.
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