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Do you know the British well Mickeyfinn? 
It would be good to get to the bottom of whether the UK have adequate controls of in/ out because without that how can you possibly impose the fines etc that you make mention of?
P.s. the French appear to have many concerns already about this issue.
This message was last edited by ads on 31/05/2016.
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Every time I go back to uk I see queues at passport control where all documents are checked and I have seen some travellers being escorted for what I assumed were further checks
Yes we have those who hide on lorries arrive in dinghies etc but in general I think the uk border force do a very good job and I can't see anything changing if an exit unless the french force the uk border control out of France and the Republic or Ireland re creating border controls with NI
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Do you know the British well Mickeyfinn?
Well I ought too I spent the first thirty years or so years of my life living and working in the country. I can also tell you I do return there from time to time and each time I do, (I always go by car) I get searched thoroughly by the customs and border controllers. My papers for myself and my dogs are scanned and presumably checked on a data base.
Maybe I look suspicious but in my opinion Britain is very secure. Of course a few illegals aided by crooks will try and circumvent the system but that will always happen. The opt-outs from Schengen in my view adequately protect the UK from unwanted immigrants.
The system works at Calais. Whenever I go there I see countless numbers of frustrated immigrants trying to enter Britain and taking appalling risks with their own lives. That is another indication the controls work. The French and British officials do an excellent job filtering and controlling entry points.
That may well be put at risk by Brexit. If that happens the people of Kent will suffer appalling problems. The French may allow them through after divorce because the British pay them well at the moment to do it. After Brexit who can tell if that will continue?
I say that because there is a question of will the EU suvive after an exit by Britain? Marine Le Pen dreams openly that “Brexit” will create an unstoppable domino effect in France and elsewhere on the continent. Even Juncker is worried the consequences may fragment many EU principles into dust.
Destabilization in Europe will certainly happen for some time until UK treaty unraveling takes place.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 31/05/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
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Destabilization in Europe will certainly happen for some time until UK treaty unraveling takes place.
If I did not know better that sounds almost like an expectation that BREXIT will happen.
The Euro countries are pretty well locked together. The single currency is a major step towards total union. At some time or other if we want to keep our own currency we will have to get of the bus and get a slower one or even one going in the opposite direction. It might as well be now.
There is no reason why our break with the EU should be difficult. Just leaving tarriffs as they are has major advantages for both sides. The difficulty might come in the future if either side wanted to protect an industry from subsidised competition.
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The opt-outs from Schengen in my view adequately protect the UK from unwanted immigrants.
That's a laugh. We find it near impossible to throw them out, due to European Law, when they do get here.
The papers and TV news in the UK are at present full of reports of illegal immigration through minor ports and marinas. But this could be predicted as the government increases controls elswhere.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 31/05/2016.
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due to European Law,
what european law is that then?
yes minor ports are a problem for the UK (and other countries) NOT the EU - what do you suggest the UK govt do - a Trump and build a big wall all around the coast of the UK?
immigartion has simply no substance in the referedum either way
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Brexit will not change Britain's compliances to human rights laws or conventions. The country cannot isolate itself from the rest of the world.
It's dishonest to suggest otherwise but never allow the truth to get in the way of a good story when it suits a cause. The British press does it all the time.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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the european human rights laws or conventions was first drafted in 1950 long before the EU or the common market
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights
yes chanegs have been made and agreed by member states s teh EU moved forward - are the exiters really saying we will ditch the entire thing or go back to the original or cherry pick what they think is good etc?
another subject with no substance or clarity or undertsanding for the exiters
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In the future i think the remainers can look forward to, not a United States of Europe, but something more like a Soviet Union of Europe: everything controlled from the centre, with Germany in place Russia. We're already well on the way as the EU is a socialist, protectionist entity.
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In the future i think the remainers can look forward to, not a United States of Europe, but something more like a Soviet Union of Europe: everything controlled from the centre, with Germany in place Russia. We're already well on the way as the EU is a socialist, protectionist entity.
........................and that statement is based on what evidence please? Really! The Soviet Union was a Marxist militarist dictatorship of the worse kind. Utterly undemocratic with a centrist command economy.
It bears no relationship to the EU which has democratic principles enshrined in its constitution. Most elected leaders of member states are on the center ground of politics. Even France who has a socialist president and government are adopting free market economic policies.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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** EDITED - offensive ** They are well used to most of continental Europe kneeling at their feet, however we aren't the kneeling type, and by 'we' I mean the followers of freedom and respecters of those who put their lives on the line for it. If folk want in or out then they have the democratic right to cast their vote accordingly, unlike those who left the UK's shores for places like Spain and have lost their right to vote and have declared themselves to be Europeans, good luck to them with their choice.
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 5/31/2016 11:28:00 PM.
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Well I ought too I spent the first thirty years or so years of my life living and working in the country. I can also tell you I do return there from time to time and each time I do, (I always go by car) I get searched thoroughly by the customs and border controllers. My papers for myself and my dogs are scanned and presumably checked on a data base.
Well, going by car isn't the same as the thousands who travel by boat and the ultimate end is the UK, now is it?
Maybe I look suspicious but in my opinion Britain is very secure. Of course a few illegals aided by crooks will try and circumvent the system but that will always happen. The opt-outs from Schengen in my view adequately protect the UK from unwanted immigrants.
Now that is a joke, and also a wind up, 'A few illegal' Do you have a working TV? Are you currently living in a cave? No newspapers where you are?...The UK currently has about a 100 or so illegal murderers, child traffickers, sex predators, burglars etc etc roaming the UK who cannot be found probably due to the so called honest immigrants hiding them.
The system works at Calais. Whenever I go there I see countless numbers of frustrated immigrants trying to enter Britain and taking appalling risks with their own lives. That is another indication the controls work. The French and British officials do an excellent job filtering and controlling entry points.
Yes, we all have seen them, the few they stop in no way equals the thousands that get through.
That may well be put at risk by Brexit. If that happens the people of Kent will suffer appalling problems. The French may allow them through after divorce because the British pay them well at the moment to do it. After Brexit who can tell if that will continue?
When they get into Kent they wont stop in Kent, they go up North to families, spread into other overcrowded towns and cities. Every town in the UK has had enough of them.
I say that because there is a question of will the EU suvive after an exit by Britain? Marine Le Pen dreams openly that “Brexit” will create an unstoppable domino effect in France and elsewhere on the continent. Even Juncker is worried the consequences may fragment many EU principles into dust.
Destabilization in Europe will certainly happen for some time until UK treaty unraveling takes place.
If the EU is so marvellous as you keep telling us how would it disintegrate, its perfect as it is, so you believe.
How hard is it for you to understand 'The UK cannot cope with more' ....HONESTLY NOW, CANT YOU SEE THAT!
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** EDITED - off thread **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 5/31/2016 11:29:00 PM.
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baz
interesting comments** EDITED -Inciting **
how will Brexit fix these immigartion issues for the UK?
This immigartion problem is not going away and we need to work togetehr to fix it
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 5/31/2016 11:33:00 PM.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I have never had a problem with immigrants coming into the UK, it's just the sheer vast numbers that we cannot cope with, and as we all know we can produce our own undesirables without bringing them in and worse... Then losing them.
If a brexit happened and remember I have said all along we wont leave due to the fiddled figures, I haven't a clue how, or who could sort the problem out, it's gone on for so long now and all the governments turned their backs on it they have lost the control. To get it to be admitted that it's a massive problem could be a start, no good like one on here saying it helps the UK...Not this amount don't.
It is a joint effort from every country in the world, not just the EU countries either, and you mustn't say it but the muslim community are the greatest threat for the years to come.
You see telling the truth now how it is......Has become the new racist card.
This message was last edited by baz1946 on 31/05/2016.
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Baz you hit the nail on the head nobody knows what will happen
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Almost 20 posts have been removed from this thread as they were totally off thread and impeded the logical flow of the original conversation.
If a thread is 'hijacked' like this again the member/s will be automatically banned and all posts will be deleted too.
Do not hold personal conversations on a public thread. You have the PM system for that.
Please stay on thread.
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It appears that border controls are coming under stress and are underfunded just at a time when greater resources are required, which does no favours to Govt credibility and their ability to adequately control the in/out flow of people that we can realistically manage without fear of doing damage not only to our infrastructure (NHS, education system, policing, housing etc) but also the social structure and the fabric of our integrated society.
In some ways this is akin to basic housekeeping and control of finances and how they are prioritised and deployed. But it goes much further than that as it's like planning for a family, you have to live within your means without stretching your resources further than you can afford and accommodate. And perhaps looking from a wider perspective many feel vulnerable because those controls to manage and live within our means and effectively plan for our futures have been taken out of our control by the EU's freedom of movement policy.
I would ask has the EU realistically considered the impact of lack of control on member states in this regard, so that they can adequately respond to these unplanned eventualities, and has it in its intentions become too inflexible within its current treaty arrangements?
The unwillingness on the EU's part to swiftly respond and address/ reform these issues and the incredible lengths a member state has to go to effect change with ever growing need for " opt outs" ( or in some cases for a country to use their power to ignore defined regulations intended to better balance surpluses, etc) without feeling alienated in that process does no favours to the EU system.
To many it has now become too complex, too inflexible, open to abuse, too unaccountable and sadly appears to have alienated citizens and created more divisiveness, more vulnerabilities, which ironically appears a world away from its original intentions.
But there again perhaps the question to ask is, have those original intentions changed so significantly in their practical application as to no longer take account of citizen's best interests? Is it unrealistic to consider this as a USA of Europe when cultures and customs and quest for freedoms and control or willingness to adhere to a common rule of law with regulatory controls in place to protect are so widely diverse and complex?
Just a few thoughts to digest!
This message was last edited by ads on 01/06/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 01/06/2016.
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p.s.
With regard to reciprocal arrangements with other countries in the EU relating to serving prison sentences it was reported that “Under a deal agreed by the last Labour government, no inmates from one of the member states that had a high statistical quota would have to serve their sentences back home until at least December 2016 to give the country time to build new jails.”
Why then, you might ask, should this reciprocal arrangement not be used on a wider basis for other scenarios where EU freedom of movement pressures require forward planning for more educational establishments, hospitals, prisons, homes, etc such that their intake can be limited until such time as infrastructure and related resources are in place to accommodate for the increase?
But this does not take into account the impact on citizens choice to expand at a rate that would impact on their communities, their landscape, their culture etc…. all realistic complexities to add to the equation, especially when the directive on growth begins to take priority above citizens best interests and priorities to their everyday lives. How many for instance are happy with uncontrolled growth? Might this constant requirement for growth require a better balance to incorporate citizens aspirations if we want to retain a civilised and more content European population?
Yet more thoughts to contemplate!
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Well it's now wages could be £38.00 p/w lower by 2030 if Brexit succeeds, I wonder what the weather will be like and what the winning lottery numbers will be. This comes from the TUC's General Secretary, Frances O'Grady, perhaps her efforts should be directed towards the retail and steel production sectors that are currently taking hit after hit, Austin Reed are the latest, circa 1000 to lose their jobs, and all of this is happening while we are EU members, makes you think doesn't it?.
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