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A friend of mine with an income and high qualifications moved to Australia but came back after 5 years because he was not close to the top of the list for naturalisation. A visa is only an early stage if you want to emmigrate.
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Ads -In other words ability to control is essential and directly linked to cohesion.
Sorry ads I think that statement is simply wrong. What you are suggesting in multiculturalism is unacceptable to the British in the sense it causes social tensions. If British people don’t like completion in the labour market and prefer to languish on benefits rather than work should that be tolerated in the name of social cohesion?
Business has to face acute competition every day. Why should the labour market be exempt?
One of the reasons or excuses depending on your view, put forward for UK house builders failing to reach their target numbers for residential house building was they could not recruit sufficient skilled workers to work in the building industry. This was said in a radio interview by the president of the UK house builders association.
Of course that could be down to many reasons but it begs the question how this industry will prosper post Brexit when their principle source of skilled migrant workers from EU will in theory dry up.
They plan to lobby the government to obtain an opt out from any restrictions on future EU migration. They will need to join a long queue.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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tteed
You are (again) incorrect. It is true that only 37% of the total electorate voted out. What is untrue is your assertion that "most people want out" How did you calculate that? I did not suggest that ALL those who didn't vote were remainers, although I would hazzard a quess that now that the reality of the process going ahead is so much worse, there is a fair tranche of buyers regrets . Read the post again! As for Farage, the quote was widely made on the media at the time when the initial view was against him. I was in front of the TV at the time.
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Marcbernard
Are you suggesting we make voting compulsory, not a bad idea considering the blood and sacrifice given in the past to ensure future generations are able to vote and that a majority of votes is accepted in all walks of life.
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Well we all have diferentt experiences and as I keep saying nothing is as balck and white as many post on here
My friend is managing a group of retail stores in WA and he is based in Perth he has a full visa (not a holoiday working visa) for himself and his family.
Spoke to him this weekend his wife has just got a job (started last week) as a receptionist in a gym and his kids started school a few weeks ago. Registered with a GP etc all is good. His sponsor was the firm he is working for
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Marcbernard all the nit % picking in the world is not going to change the fact that the part of the population that did bother to get off their arse and vote ......voted OUT and won by a majority ( it really that simple ). This message was last edited by windtalker on 12/02/2017.
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windtalker
....is not going to change the fact that the part of the population that did bother to get off their arse and vote ......voted OUT and won by a majority
I agree with that
I wonder how many of those who voted OUT will be happy IF the UK remains in the single market with freedom of movement etc.
It could happen no matter what the white paper says and the voters will have NO say in what is finally agreed between the UK and the EU
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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hugh_man
As Australia has been mentioned did you know it is compluslroy to vote in Australia
under federal electoral law, it is compulsory for all eligible Australian citizens to enrol and vote in federal elections, by-elections and referendums
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd1966 personally I think the UK will stay in the single market when we leave the EU ....mass emigration in the EU will come to a abrupt end when the rest of the EU have to endur what the UK has put up with for many years ,anyway I am off out for Sunday lunch at the Camposol golf club highly recommended have a good day yourself. This message was last edited by windtalker on 12/02/2017.
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I am totally against compulsory voting.
I find it a totally honourable position if someone choses to not to vote because they feel that they do not have the knowledge to judge.
What is wrong is to take no notice of the political situation, what people stand for, their record or their fitness to be a representitive and vote the way your father did.
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windtalker
If the UK remain in the single market then freedom of movement will remain so what will change that will make the rest of the EU "endure" and what will they have to "endure"
have been to campososl golf club many times for golf and food and yes it is OK so enjoy
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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MarcBernard
Windtalker makes all the response neccessary.
Except to point out that you are now putting words into my mouth as well as Mr Farrages.
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Windtalker
Enjoy your lunch. Unfortunately, due to circumstance beyond my control, I am not in Spain at the moment but I too am off to Sunday lunch at a golf club, but in a wet and cold UK.
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tteedd
Yes I would agree with you
compulsory voting for individuals is not the way forward but anyone representing others should always vote and if they cannot decide for whatever reason then they should consult with those they are representing or leave their position of representing others
I respect the Australian form of democracy as it is theirs.
just a thought and not necessarily my view on the subject
You could say that compulsory voting obliges the voter to go and find out what the vote is about and what they are voting for - as you said many people sacrificed lot to give them that right to vote so maybe the voters owe them that debt to use the vote they have been given
This message was last edited by Tadd1966 on 12/02/2017.
This message was last edited by Tadd1966 on 12/02/2017.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Mickyfinn you observed "What you are suggesting in multiculturalism is unacceptable to the British in the sense it causes social tensions."
Absolutely not. I'm suggesting that by restricting the ability to control and best manage, that it is the restriction in practice that has the potential to lead to social tensions. Quite different to your interpretation.
As for competition in the labour market, your observation yet again fails to take into account the downward and negative knock on impacts wherever the factors already identified occur, and how this downward spiral without ability to effectively manage and control and without due regard to member state differentials to accomplish fair allocation, a fair system relating to movement of labour linked to skilled shortages, etc, understandably becomes a major cause of citizen concern.
The fact that shortages in labour occurs should not give free reign to unfair policies that in reality cause greater poverty for nationals, greater stress on infrastructure and the like, I.e. the downward spiral previously identified.
Your inference of skilled EU migrant workers " drying up" seems to imply that post Brexit, when greater and fairer financial controls can be applied , suggests these migrant workers have become dependent on uptake of UK tax credits and benefits, which implies that their own Govts are not making adequate provision?
What is needed is a fair system that takes into account the many differentials across member states and for the EU to recognise how their unrealistic restrictions and intransigence have led to disharmony and proliferated tensions, not harmonised as was once their intent.
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As for competition in the labour market, your observation yet again fails to take into account the downward and negative knock on impacts
Not so I have acknowledged globalisation had caused much hardship in some industrial communities.
Capitalism is increasingly dynamic across the world. To stay competitive business and labour have to adapt to changing circumstances. Nation states have to keep barrier free access to labour and be able to remain flexible in tariff free markets, especially with labour. It is useless to create ‘fair’ regulations when the direct consequence is an uncompetitive business.
Business and innovation has to stay ahead of the changes, so must labour in tandem.
I believe most people who want to work and have the skills understand that they have to compete in the market place for jobs and that knowledge does not cause the social tensions you allege. Quite the opposite in my view.
The social tensions if any exist are among people who are not willing to take part in that system, not willing to acquire the necessary skills and prefer the attraction of social benefits to keep themselves afloat. That section of the population then moan and bleat about the rest and the systemic process along the lines you suggest.
In France the large majority of the population with hand on heart would agree with your assessments. They are protectionist and anti-capitalist by nature. It is destroying the things they hold dear because they refuse to acknowledge that huge structural changes in society must be made to cope with the new world order. The French are finally waking up to that and the coming elections will just be a beginning of social change that’s about thirty years too late.
Britain cannot turn back the clock after Brexit. If anything it will have to become leaner and meaner alone in the globalized economy. Brexit will not bring any of the changes you wish to see, quite the reverse in my view.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn,
You again fail to see that there are EU migrants taking the UK benefits that you claim are "attractive " social benefits!!
To expect the UK to abandon its benefit system for UK nationals and accept a far lower common denominator in support of an ideological uncaring system that in practice would create wider divisions between the haves and have nots, and fails to assist in the process of incentivising work and tackling poverty, goes against the British psyche, and fails to take account of transitional change to eradicate abuse, yes, but to do it in such a way as to incentivise but fairly assist through that process.
Plus it doesn't help when you witness the knock on effects from swift uncontrolled migration exacerbating housing costs ( rentals) , whilst lowering earning power, exacerbating the inwork benefit system, child benefit system, tax credit system. Etc etc etc.
It is wrong that EU migrants ( especially those from countries not suffering from high unemployment), with a benefit structure less favourable to our own should profit from our caring system intended to assist UK nationals out of poverty, and this is just one aspect relating to citizen concern.
Your " leaner and meaner approach " without a balanced fallback mechanism to cater for those suffering from poverty and rising living costs, appears slanted towards the benefit of large globalised corporations whose profit margins are frequently protected at the expense of hard working citizens, which has led to growing distrust of Govts and EU alike, those who fail to recognise and strive for greater balance and seek solutions to tackle such uncomfortable realities.
What's more, aspiring for what in reality is a selfish and uncaring system, is not what many citizens in the UK ( and in Europe) appear to aspire to.
IMHO there is a better balanced harmonious way forward.
Each to their own.
This message was last edited by ads on 12/02/2017.
This message was last edited by ads on 12/02/2017.
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Ads
I can see your points bytvuou fail to see that the uk benedit system is at fault and has been for years
The have and have not a you refer to again have existed for years
Housing as mentioned before ask the locals in places like London or Cornwall about the affects of movement within the uk and the haves inflating prices for second homes etc and putting burdens on their health care provisions
Movement of people is natural and welcome but to blame that for the current state of the uk us simply wrong
People will always move for work and a better life whether that us from Huddersfield or London or Hungary to uk it is the locals who suffer and complain and the govt should simply plan better and look forward instead of back invest in growth areas and help poorer areas whether that is across the uk or the world together
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Best entertainment on UK TV, but also shown worldwide. Foreigners thought it was series 6 Candid Camera.
www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/benefits-couple-thank-taxpayers-for-38577/
14 Jun 2015 - The Gillingham couple paid for the wedding using the £1,900 they get a month in benefits. Richard Broom and Sandra Gallagher have just tied the knot. ... We deserve a marriage or wedding bonus funded by taxpayers because when people on benefits marry they get less money.
This message was last edited by potblack on 12/02/2017.
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NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: A mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others.
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There are always those who will try to abuse systems in the UK and EU alike.... Such selfish attitudes with little conscience is exactly why you need fair controls and regulatory structures in place to prevent abuse in the first place. Restrictions that prevent such preventative controls only perpetuate abuse.
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