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Just announced that 3/5 ths of nett migration figures comes from the EU and is growing. Apparently second highest record on level.
Control and consent questions arise according to the Out campaign.
Well they would say that woundn't they?
The latest ONS figures are out and they show net migration has risen to 333,000- up 20,000 from December 2014. . Many of them will probably leave after a contract period of employment. Most may stay and so what. If they are contributing to the British economy and paying their way as most do according to surveys. They work in jobs many British will not do because they lose benefits.
In a nation with a population of 65 millions, 330,000 is a drop in the bucket. Of course the outers will clutch at anything they can but really this does not have legs.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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@tteedd
There is a part of the British Isles, a British crown dependancy that trades without tariffs with the EU, that is no part of the UK and has no agreement with the EU. The Isle of man.
So do the Channel Islands and Gibraltar. They are part of the EU FTA purely because of the UK treaty of accession that gave them that right. . If UK leaves that treaty becomes null and void. The IoM parliament may think they can continue as before but without a treaty in place they would have to go through the negotiation process.
The Isle of Man, by virtue of its unique Customs and Excise Agreement with the United Kingdom and European law, is treated as part of the UK and European Union (EU) for Customs, Excise and Value Added Tax (VAT) purposes.
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330,000 A YEAR is a drop in a bucket Micky.......really! That's about a million every 3 years just from the EU. I don't think that most residents would consider that acceptable, particularly as naturally they settle in the most densly populated areas of the UK and not the empty areas of say Scotland. You really don't get peoples concerns, do you? It's nothing to do with racism just the shear numbers. The UK is one of the most densly populated country in Europe now and everyone loses, immigrants and the indigenous population.
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Just announced that 3/5 ths of nett migration figures comes from the EU and is growing. Apparently second highest record on level.
Control and consent questions arise according to the Out campaign.
Well they would say that woundn't they?
The latest ONS figures are out and they show net migration has risen to 333,000- up 20,000 from December 2014. . Many of them will probably leave after a contract period of employment. Most may stay and so what. If they are contributing to the British economy and paying their way as most do according to surveys. They work in jobs many British will not do because they lose benefits.
In a nation with a population of 65 millions, 330,000 is a drop in the bucket. Of course the outers will clutch at anything they can but really this does not have legs.
You know what Micky I had respect for your posts, now I see you are a wind up merchant..Re...' Outers will clutch at anything' so you don clutch at anything to do with staying then? Which I hasten to add you know nothing of either?
You don't even live in the UK but somehow seem to know all the problems concerning it because you come back for a holiday now and again, you really don't have a clue.
You moan about everyone that reads the papers yet you quote 'According to Surveys' basically it's okay for you to quote and read rubbish, but no one else can.
You never answer a post you don't like, when it doesn't fit your ideas of staying in.
Many of the people who want out openly admit they know nothing of what will happen if the UK did quit, but you know everything about the reasons to stay.
Very clever posting Micky.
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Migration figures are not static and its not an exact science. People move all the time especially if they don't have ties to the country. A more exact science would be how many EU migrants remain for five years or more.
The French once did a study of how long British immigrants remained in France where they had no family ties or other relationship with the country. I filled out one of their questionaires at the time. The answer was three years. I suspect Spain would be the same if they could be bothered to do it. This was not retirees but working immigrants.
The percentage of these migrants to Britain who remain is likely to be very low. Of course others come along in the meantime. The British should welcome it, it benefits the nation enormously.
I recall Boris Johnson doing just that on TV when mayor of London. Telling the French they are all welcome to come and live there. How he changes colour through political expediency like the devious chameleon he is.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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*** Migration figures are not static and its not an exact science ***. People move all the time especially if they don't have ties to the country. A more exact science would be how many EU migrants remain for five years or more.
*** The French once did a study of how long British immigrants remained in France where they had no family ties or other relationship with the country. I filled out one of their questionaires at the time. The answer was three years. I suspect Spain would be the same if they could be bothered to do it. This was not retirees but working immigrants ***.
*** The percentage of these migrants to Britain who remain is likely to be very low. Of course others come along in the meantime. The British should welcome it, it benefits the nation enormously ***.
I recall Boris Johnson doing just that on TV when mayor of London. Telling the French they are all welcome to come and live there. How he changes colour through political expediency like the devious chameleon he is.
Well, they to you wouldn't be an exact science, according to you the UK has only about 5 in the country.
What has France to do with the UK and us debating to leave or not ? If you want to speak immigration thats the UK problems not what happens in France.
You should on one of your visits to the UK pop along to say Bradford, leicester, or anywhere in fact and speak with the British born whites, ask them how this has benefited the nation.
So Boris is devious is he, thats rich coming from someone who cant see the wood for the trees....Lets not forget I am married to an immigrant also, German I know, me and ole Farage have a lot in common then.
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baz
sorry but rather an unecessary racist comment really
You should on one of your visits to the UK pop along to say Bradford, leicester, or anywhere in fact and speak with the British born whites, ask them how this has benefited the nation.
what about none white british born citizens?
why does it always come down to immigration and racism exiting the EU will not fix any of these issues
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Yes, Tadd exiting the EU will not, or ever, fix the immigration problems we have, I do know that.
Unnecessary Racist Comment, I don't think so for one moment, you see thats the root of all the troubles in the UK, not forgetting all the EU caused problems for one moment, but as it stands now no White British Born person can say anything like what is the truth to any Black / Brown / Yellow / any colour you like Person in the UK for the fear of being branded a racist.
I had up to a couple of months ago until he died a British Born Black son-in-law, from him I have two mixed race Grandchildren, we used to pull each others legs about him being Black and me White, he got really miffed over he couldn't buy his Daughter a Golliwog doll, he moved out of London because the area was getting overrun with Blacks and other foreigners.
I have no problem with immigrants, it's the vast amount of them that I have the problem with, and like it or not, and this is where the truth wont be told, or accepted, many who come to these shores will not embrace this country and it's rules and laws, See Germany, See the latest about Austria.
I had to agree with a comment on here about the Germans being arrogant, they are, her brothers are, her sisters a little, my wife still thinks she's the master race, blonde hair and all, pure blood, jumps to the front of queues, at least she don't have hairy armpits and a top lip though, I have reminded her on many occasions they couldn't even win a war, and you had a couple of goes at that one as well....Am I a racist now?
Only the other day a white person was verbally assaulted on a train by an Asian person who reminded him he cant say anything back to retaliate or he would be reported for being a racist.
Now doubt none of what I say is true, thats the trouble here now, many wont / cant see it, and scared to admit it.
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People born of parents legally resident in the UK are British, full stop.
There is no reason for race to come into the equation.
But the fact is that British agriculture, if working efficiently, could only feed (at an optomistic estimate) about 40 million people. If we faced a breakdown the abilty to import food for any reason we could not feed our population. People would starve. Additionally we cannot house the people that have arrived already and young people cannot afford a home unless we build low cost housing on green belt. There is no room at the inn.
If we need to import Dr's, nurses or other professionals then we should choose those we need and at the same time examine our society's inability to train our own.
Only by leaving the EU can we control immigration from and via the EU. Control of immigration from the rest of the world is down to political will.
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baz
fair comments but it was unecessary and even if you did not intend it to come across as racist sadly to me it did
we nned to live together in peace and any reference ones race, creed, heritage etc is unecessary from anyone and the human race needs to grow up a bit
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Baz. Insulting other posters because you don't agree with them reflects only negatively on you. Try and engage brain before typing s'il vous plaît.
My point about the French survey was to illustrate generally that EU migrants to whatever country remain permanently usually when there are strong family ties. I know that is a generalisation but it happens to be true in a large percentage of cases.
Family ties are fundamental to what makes us human. Most British I speak to in Spain tell me the one thing they miss most is family. In the end it's also the one thing which influences their eventual return to the UK.
Now perhaps you might understand what point I was trying to make. Migration is a dynamic phenomenon. It's not static and changes with time, economic circumstances and opportunity. It only benefits everyone.
The fact that public services may not be able to cope is down to national government not investing sufficiently in them. Nothing to do with the EU whatever. Austerity rules in the UK because the government wants to live within the nation’s means.
When the last recession began all the Polish plumbers went back to Poland en masse. If Brexit happens the same will thing will apply because the country will head towards economic meltdown.
At least that will solve baz’s problem.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Gibraltan citizens are treated as UK citizens by the EU. They get a vote in the referendum and Gibralter will leave the EU if the UK does. (May cause some problems with Spain).
Jersey and Gurnsey are on the face of it in a similar position to the I o M but they automatically incorporate EU legislation and are close to the EU in other ways.
The I of Man picks and choses what legislation from the EU and the UK to incorporate. That may or may not make it more difficult for them if we leave. But it does make them a better model for us.
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'Insulting other posters because you don't agree with them reflects negatively'
Hear hear!
Practice and preach comes to mind.
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But it does make them a better model for us.
Why would it as none of the exiters know what they want and whatever relationship an exited UK will want with the EU will depend mainly on the EU and not what the UK may or may not want
Until the exiters tell everyone what they want then there is no point at looking at any existing model (Norway, Swiss, IoM, EEA etc.) or asking the EU for a comment
You can't make a model fit something or a plan that does not exist
Only thing that appears clear is that in the event of an exit the current UK govt will decide on what to ask for or what model to use and joe public will have no say
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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all the Polish plumbers went back to Poland en masse.
Seems to be plenty around here (Hertfordshire) and it is only a couple of weeks since I saw one being interviewed on the BBC. He and his family seemed well settled here and was of the view that we should limit further immigration!
This message was last edited by tteedd on 26/05/2016.
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Why on earth would you expect people who want to exit to have the same objective once we have exited? They come from accross the political spectrum. One thing the campaign shows us is that people of the same political party want differing things, let alone those with differing political backgrounds.
They are no different from those who want to stay in who have different expectations of what the EU can do for them.
As I see it (and no doubt you differ) Bexiters have a clear idea of what they want (out) and for mainly very clear political, practical and economic reasons.
Inners may have a clear idea of what they want (in) but mainly from dubious (if not manufactured) opinions on the economic future and false versions of the past.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 26/05/2016.
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Sorry tteedd Brexiteers do not in general come from 'across the political spectrum'. At least public figures. Private ones are almost impossible to discover since mostly the keep their opinions to themselves. Except forum members of course.
Brexit political support comes from the right. How many labour or Liberal politician's are Exiteers? I acknowledge you can find a few exceptions but in the main it's from the political right brexiteers come.
Perhaps you should ask why that is so. I can speculate with my own suspicions. However I may be being disingenuous.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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There is one major concern about Brexit that many commentator in the media have missed. Except the FT who have alluded to it today by writing about the EU's plan B. Contingency plans after Brexit.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/09668b3e-2357-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d.html#axzz49nAI1CN1
If the UK leaves the rest of the EU cannot allow it to be a political success for Britain. If they do they will have to face calls from other states to follow suit.
In France the far right National Front leader Marine le Pen is gaining a lot of political ground calling for France to leave. If France left that would be then end. So it's in the best interests of the EU to make life very difficult for Britain after a divorce. After all isn't that what usually happens. Anger turns to recrimination then revenge.
It is always better staying together and working through problems, even political ones.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Micky
If you are right why did you start this thread? The result acording to your calculation is a foregone conclusion.
I have noted the numbers of people voting UKIP in labour constituencies.
I remember prior to 75 when the whole of the labour movement was against the EEC until Wilson's slight of hand.
The goverment has been quite shamefaced in it's biased propaganda for in and many young people have been swayed by this, but I feel there is slowly becoming a realisation amongst those who were born since we we joined the EU that the older generation have a tale to tell (and even a realisation that our PM has been double dealing).
In any case the argument will be more balanced in the three weeks leading up to the referendum. Whatever happens I cannot understand those who are bored with the whole process. Whatever you believe, the decision is vital to the future of our country and democracy.
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If the UK leaves the rest of the EU cannot allow it to be a political success for Britain.
From one who has been assuring us that BREXIT would be an abject failure!
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