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Yes that means EU regulation, regulation, and more regulation. The very essence of the things others on this forum say is dictatorship. The EU really just cannot satisfy everyone.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn wrote.
Germany happens to be a successful nation and is willing to share some of that success with refugees from other countries. It has used its financial resources to help Greece but the Greeks always want more. In 2014 Germany gave a total of €15.8 billion for humanitarian assistance around the world. It also contributes enormously to the defence of Western Europe.
Nope thats wrong, it is a successful nation granted, not as much as it used to be but still a lot better then many.
Germany didn't want to share it's success, its people didn't want to share it success...Merkel did, she wanted to show the world what a caring nation it was by taking in anyone from anywhere, only she knew best, and for one reason only, she wanted the Nobel Peace Prize for being this caring person and nation, tough she didn't get it, what she did get was untold troubles which have come home to haunt her.
Now she wants it fixed, pay them to go home.
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No point in having stability regulatory structures in place from the outset ( to protect) which provide reassurance, if you have little intent to enforce. There is a great difference between good regulatory structures for the common good and mutual benefit in a far wider perspective ( that lead to greater cohesion and reassurance) than those which do not meet that objective Mickeyfinn.
It clouds the issue to mix up the two. The emphasis being on mutual benefit and not "out of kilter", or causing damage to cohesion or taking unfair advantage.
IMHO the EU have failed miserably in this regard.
This message was last edited by ads on 11/02/2017.
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"The blame, if any exists lies with useless national governments who unlike the EU have the power and ability to actually do something."
Like the UK government trying to stop EU migrants getting the same benefits as the people in the UK (who have mostly paid into the system)?, and the EUSSR saying that they can't.
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No, wrong again Javi. David Cameron obtained a four-year freeze on in-work benefits for EU citizens already working in the UK. Plus a seven year freeze called an emergency brake on benefits for new arrivals to the UK from Europe.
Of course because of the referendum result these agreements no longer apply.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 11/02/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Not wrong Miky- He didn't want a 4 year freeze he wanted it stopping completely but the EUSSR disagreed, as for the joke 7 year rule that would be implemented by the EUSSR when they thought fit - stop twisting things to suit yourself....
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www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/19/camerons-eu-deal-what-he-wanted-and-what-he-got
Javi - Please read the actual facts if you are interested enough instead of spreading 'fake news'.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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The UK does not elect the executive the uk elects mp's then the leader of the winning party selects the cabinet or the executive not the voters
Nobody elects the HoL the 2nd executive if you like
WRONG
The house of Lords is a revising body not an executive. If the Lords is rash enought to emasculate legislation then the commons can overule it using the parliament act. The commons is supreme.
All members of the Commons are elected however you twist it. The prime minister is selected by the Head of State as the person most likely to be able to form a government. We have parties because that is the way our elected representitives choose to organise themselves. The head of the largest party is usually the person most likely to be able to form a government and therefor the person most likely to be asked to form a government. But the head of state could ask any MP, if that person was likely to command a majority of MP's (or even be able to hold an interim government together).
Primary legislation in the UK is initiated in the commons where all members are elected.
Primary legislation in the EU starts from the commission and council of ministers none of whom are elected.
We have had this deocratic deficit for far too long whith no hope of change, which is why long term exiters wish to leave and restore the democratic process.
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Mucky,
Why would I waste time reading anything the Guardian says? It's about on a par with what you and the EUSSR spin...
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tteed- The UK is a democracy because we elect the executive. The EU is not democratic because we do not elect the executive.
If I may say so that statement is confusing the sovereign nation state with an EU entity which is not the same thing.
You may not say so. The very quote uses 'democracy' refering to the UK and 'not democratic' refering to the EU.
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According to the Telegraph - "what Cameron asked for and what he actually got" :_
Migration and benefits
Pledge
"We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
Draft text: This was Cameron’s trophy achievement. It consists of a mechanism to “limit the access of union workers newly entering its labour market to in-work benefits for a total period of up to four years from the commencement of employment” if the UK, or any other member state, can show that EU migrants are “putting an excessive pressure on the proper functioning of its public services”.
No details are provided on what “excessive pressure” means, but a note on the mechanism says it will be tabled on the understanding that "it can and will be used" by the UK and the UK will do so "in full expectation of obtaining approval". However the control of the brake appears to remain firmly in the hands of the Commission who must be "notified" by any member state that they believe they are eligible to use it.
The text also adds an important caveat that the “limitation should be graduated, from an initial complete exclusion” to be followed by “gradually increasing access to such benefits” the longer that an EU worker stays in the host member state’s labour market.
Final deal: All of the above, including a declaration that the four-year brake will be available to Britain for “a period of 7 years”. This is a ‘win’ for Cameron, although he had reportedly demanded up to 13 years availability.
On the negative side, Mr Cameron’s negotiators were unable to remove the “tapering mechanism” which will see EU migrants start to receive benefits when they start to contribute to the system – probably after their first year of work.
Critics will point out that the deal only fully denies in-work benefits for one year, not four. There is also no mention of the benefits changes being protected by treaty change, which some critics have warned could leave them vulnerable to challenge in the European Courts.
For further detail of the article covering all pledges see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/eu-deal-what-david-cameron-asked-for-and-what-he-actually-got/
Hardly surprising then that UK citizens lost faith in David Cameron and trust in the EU to heed and effectively respond to their ongoing and growing concerns in the lead up to Brexit.
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Tteedd
I used the term executive loosely
Yes mp's are elected but the PM is selected by the party members which is ratified as head of state purely as a process and the queen would never go against the selection of the party leader by the party by asking soon else to form a govt similar how MEP's ratify the choice of the eu executives
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I used the term executive loosely
To mean non executive? - very loosely!
(She said no your honour but I know she meant yes)
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Yes mp's are elected but the PM is selected by the party members which is ratified as head of state purely as a process and the queen would never go against the selection of the party leader by the party by asking soon else to form a govt similar how MEP's ratify the choice of the eu executives
???
The monarch, in the distant past, has done just that. In the recent past Edward Heath did not resign when he was not head of the largest party, until he had explored a coalition elsewhere. And very recently there was discussion of a lib/lab pact when the tories had the largest No of MP's. So it is perfectly possible for the PM not to be head of the largest party.
Should it ever be the case (god help us) that we have a Hitler look alike as the head of the largest party I would expect the electorate (and armed forces) to support the monarch if he or she chose a different elected MP as PM.
(read 'Hitler' as any demagogue of left or right who was known to want to overthrow democracy).
This message was last edited by tteedd on 11/02/2017.
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Tteedd
You have some good points but the fact remains both the EU and the UK have democratic systems and neither are perfect as many other democracies and people will always dislike something of it
But when some on here say the EU is a dictatorship and unelected etc are talking hogwash and then invent silly things like EUSSR which clearly does not exist anywhere that I know of adds to the hogwash they post
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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One of the best sentences in the US Constitution, states.
Government for the people, by the people.
Isnt this what true democracy is, listen to what the people want.
The majority of people in the UK want Brexit.
Larger numbers of citizens in Europe don't want the EU as it currently is but will not get the chance to have their say.
Perhaps Greeces first due payment in July may stir things yet again, especially as the supposedly respected IMF says Greeces debts are unsustainable.
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Hugh_man
How do you know for certain that large numbers OF EU citizens don't want the EU as it currently stands?
Yes a few on the far right are making noises but as far as I am aware no other states have had any referendums and none are planned
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Precisely Tadd
NO referendum.
You might be surprised.
I never said I knew for certain that there were large numbers anti the current systems of the EU, I merely stated an opinion having read much European press and spoken to a small number of Europeans.
I think we have pretty much established, there is no such thing as fact, just opinions, often quite diverse but at the end of the day, decisions, Right or wrong must be made following the voice of the people.
Yes you and Mickey are obviously not in favour of Brexit but I can't understand your intransigence in not seeing the other side of the argument that has culminated in our referendum result and the movements in Europe both left and right away from the Germans making most of the rules to keep their currency relatively weaker, without a care in the world for jobs in the other 27 nations.
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Hugh_man
Respect your view but reading European press and speaking to my circle of friends and business colleagues across Europe I certainly don't get that impression
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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