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I dont think a quick substansive motion would be adequate, can the opposing members then ask for a judicial review, a supreme court hearing (or even a simple appeal) if one takes place.
I understand the supreme court has put a date to one side in early december to hear any applications?
If the government rely on a majority to vote it may be looked on as a opportunism. The country did vote out however if taking time settles a better and more coherent deal, why not delay on a fixed timescale?
Lets hope that the idiotic traders in our capital dont start rubbing their hands for a quick buck, and also hope that industry is supported through the procedure.
Thoughts??????!!!!
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Best wishes, Brian
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Oh dear is that sour grapes or sour poppies?
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Oh dear is that sour grapes or sour poppies?
Er....neither, did I upset you? never mind, there will be
something else to get upset about soon
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Best wishes, Brian
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This legal ruling is confirmation of what some of us on here have always believed that the UK parliament is sovereign. Allowing a bunch of ministers to take such a momentous decision for the country without parliamentary approval is constitutionally wrong and dangerous. It's a good ruling for Britain.
Liam Fox has said the government will appeal of course and the irony is it’s possible that the final arbitrator on this decision will be the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg.
I don’t expect this will stop article 50, delay it perhaps but unless parliament has the courage to vote down the referendum result, Brexit will proceed, I have no doubt unfortunately. Had the opposition in parliament been stronger with some actual leadership then maybe but not with Corbyn and his motely crew.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Judges delivered a damning verdict against the Government today as they ruled that MPs must be given a vote before Theresa May starts the Brexit process.
In a decision that could spark a major constitutional crisis, Lord Chief Justice Lord Thomas sided with Remain campaigners who argued Parliament must have a vote before Article 50 is triggered, which starts a two-year process for leaving the EU.
Downing Street said it is 'disappointed' with the decision and said the Government will appeal the decision in the Supreme Court.
MPs reacted in shock and said it 'turns on its head' the Prime Minister's executive powers, while pro-EU campaigners said the ruling was a 'slap in the face' for Mrs May.
If the Government fails in its bid to overturn the historic ruling, it will be forced to put legislation through Parliament that could delay the entire Brexit process as MPs could slap on conditions to Britain's exit from the EU.
So from a very layman's point of view then, what the people want, and voted for, because they don't know anything, the MP's who can make a balls up in everything they touch, then safely quit...Know everything.
Is that correct?
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No Baz, it means that one person (TM) cannot decide the fate of the entire nation, it has to be passed by Parliament which is where the power sits.
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Ah, well. The pound has gone up.
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What's the rate today (or is that off thread too).
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Best wishes, Brian
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Sorry if something that Brexit actually affects upsets you because it's on the Brexit thread. Do you still have the keys for the outrage bus or are you keeping it in neutral?
Currently almost 1.13 euro to pounds and almost 1.25 USD to the pound. Up from 1.10 and 1.225 before the court ruling.
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Looks like an improvement to me, wonder how long that will last!
waiting for the bus pass it may be so much cheaper.
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Best wishes, Brian
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Interesting result in the courts today. Looks like financial markets have reacted positively as well.
There were also unresolved issues with the border with Northern Ireland for a start. How do you keep the border crossing open, AND close off to the EU at the same time?
Its too early to get excited, but I do feel like this is a step in the right direction. Nationalism and intolerance are a dangerous mix. I mentioned this before regarding a certain A. Hitler...
Ads
Benefits - As I mentioned a number of times now, this is a door that swings both ways. The point has been discussed a few times already, but just to reiterate, older Brits retire in Spain, and beyond buying a house and food, they dont really contribute much, because they're retired. They're not actively building businesses, or helping another business owner build that business. Retirees are, by definition, not working. On the other hand, younger economic migrants contribute heavily, through not only their wages and direct taxation, but because they have disposable income, through their indirect taxes as well, eg VAT and stamp duty. Then there is also the effect on local services. Retirees are older, and generally need more care. Younger people are generally healthier and need less. And finally, economic migrants will also assist organisations like the NHS, who are in need of skilled resources immediately. Labour market flexibility is important, and this is something that retirees do not participate in.
intolerance - honestly, I think a lot of this is people being insecure. Trying to be positive, I would say to people "a stranger is just a friend you havent met yet."
Infrastructure - This is handled by the state. With 4.9% unemployment, there is no excuse for the government to not direct resources towards where it is needed. If the economy was in trouble, then yes, I could understand the point. However, we have been told time and time again that we have a strong economy (5th largest in the world, etc etc). If that really is true, then why havent the government properly addressed this? I dont blame the immigrant, but rather poor budgeting by HMG.
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It will be interestingto see how the Scottish Nationalist vote in the coming debate. They have the numbers to upscuttle the entire article 50 issue. Maybe Brexit is not a done deal after all..
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I think most MPs will do what their constituents wanted: otherwise they won't be standing at the next GE.
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Quite so tererife. Most of Scotland voted remain. The Daily Mail is spitting blood always a good sign.
The high court decision also gave further hope to the Scottish government of getting a greater say in the move towards leaving the EU.
The first minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, said her administration would “actively consider” whether to formally join the next legal battle challenging the UK government’s position that it has the right to trigger article 50 based on the referendum result alone.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 03/11/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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There's never a dull moment is there? Why Cameron didn't get a High Court judge's opinion relative to the legalities of a Brexit majority prior to the referendum, is bewildering to say the least. 
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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
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It means article 50 will be triggered.
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It appears the government is appealing.
Why?
If the government can have a second go, then why cant there be a second referendum?
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I agree with Tenerife, I think many MPs may face a lynch mob if they were to go against their constituents wishes.
Just because the SNP has loads of MPs which represent a small minority of UK voters doesn't mean they will sway any vote, IF Tory MPs did not follow the Whip I believe May would go to the country, get relevted with an even bigger majority who want Brexit and any Tory or Labour MPs showing signs of dissent could well lose their seats to UKIP.
What price Farage coming back IF parliament is offered a vote?
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If an MP's stance on Brexit differs from that of his/her constituents, IMHO they should be allowed to abstain, this would work for both sides.
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IF YOU WISH TO QUOTE ANY OF MY POSTS PLEASE DO SO IN THEIR ENTIRETY AND NOT JUST A FEW SELECTED WORDS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.
THANK YOU.
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Rob_j1
Re benefits that the British expat community bring to the Spanish economy, I can't find recent figures (perhaps someone else will oblige!), but back in 2013 in Alicante alone ( which then represented 25% of British expats living in Spain) they were contributing 1320 million euros a year. Given there are now 319000 British expats living in Spain, plus given the UK contibutes a large amount to Spain re their healthcare, they certainly pay their own way in Europe, so I'm confused by your observations re pensioners in Spain. Also are you suggesting that the pensioners in Spain do not have disposable income to contribute to the Spanish economy?
As previously observed, you should also not look at the impact of migration on GDP per head in the UK, but you have to compare that against any rise in goverment debt. Immigrants in the UK have tended to go into part time work rather than full time jobs (implied in the job creation numbers) and contrary to what we are told, immigrants apparently present a very real fiscal cost to the UK. The real issue being in-work benefits which include housing benefit and tax credits. These are paid to those with low-skilled part time jobs. Since most of the net new jobs have gone to immigrants, and since parttime workers account for almost all of the spending on in- work benefits, you see how the conclusion has been reached that the black hole is being exacerbated by mass immigration.... Although DC got an emergency break on making EU citizens working in the UK ineligible for in-work benefits for the first 4 years, it does not apply to those already working in the UK.
All of these aspects therefore should be taken into account when drawing conclusions.
IMHO we should never be fearful of examining the failings by both the EU and Govt that led to the Brexit majority vote, and learn lessons from this so that as we move forward post Brexit, we gain the best result for British citizens both sides of the channel. And hopefully in that process resolve some of the many failings by the EU, with regard to free movement of people across member states that have also negatively impacted other European member states in their own way.
To me the aspect of retaining cohesion and tolerance is of vital importance in any forward negotiations, and it's in no-ones interests to bury our heads in the sand and ignore factors that are currently significantly compromising this aspect. Surely in this day and age its not beyond the realms of possibility to find mutually acceptable solutions.
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