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tteedd
Sorry but as far as I am aware heridetary peers are not appointed by anyone and 92 (plus life peers) still sit in the hosye. It used to be more pre 1999
Once commisoners are nominated they are approved by a vote of MEP's this does not happen with Lords i.e. MP's do not get a vote once they have been appointed by Pm and endoresed by the Queen
Youa re right both systems have no representation by the electorate and both system need reform
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Not to mention the growing unemployment in many especially Southern EU states.
The growing banking concerns in Italy, Spain and even Germany.
Thegowing support for a number of Right wing and even Left wing non EU supporting, political parties in many EU Nations, no they may not gain power but voters are sending an important message.
No Mickey would prefer to personally attack a number of individuals for their views rather than see what is happening in reality.
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Hugh, you say, "Thats exactly what an IN or OUT vote in a referdum was, a Free Vote where EVERY single vote counted and was important, how can that not be democratic?"
In actual fact that has been an isolated event that was actually democratic, and only happened because David Cameron was so sure the result would be to remain. His administration soon ended when he resigned and ran away from the result and responsibility. In other matters the Governmant has always been run in a non Democratic way, and for the forseeable future this will remain the case, as most political administration is not held in a Democratic manner.
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I think we now have at least 3 members of the glass half empty club.
Mickey, Perry and now Robert all appear to look at everything through very dark glasses.
Im not sure how on earth we will all survive these heavy notes of pessimism about.......
virtually everything.
Just off to slit my wrists.
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Tadd
The E Parliament is just a talking shop.
They have no power to initiate, ammend or throw out legislation and certainly no power to bar or throw out a Commissioner. The hereditry part ot the lords is just a rump, but the lords does have more power than the E Parliament. It can and does ammend legislation.
Jarvi's claim that the Commission is a 'dictatorship' is only a little short of the mark, I would say 'Dictative Junta' more nearly fits the bill. However, as the EU does not yet have an army or a police force, it has no power and for the time being members could still say 'Up yours Delors'.
Your message otherwise is fine:
"Sorry ....Youa re right both systems have no representation by the electorate and both system need reform"
Hopefully we are not longer interested in the reform of the EU
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Tteedd
We will have to agree to disagree
Suggest you do some research
UK parliament commons and Lords now you really are talking about a talking shop
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/28/jean-claude-juncker-faces-dissent-eu-survival-blueprint/amp/
“Pieter Cleppe, the head of the Brussels office of the Open Europe think-tank, said the Juncker blueprint was shaping up to be a repeat of tired old EU dogma, rather than a genuine attempt to address the EU structural issues.”
Also......
Versailles summit: 'Multi-speed Europe is key' to EU's future post-Brexit, say leaders
08 March 2017 @ 11:34
A MINI-SUMMIT on the future of the European 'club' in Versailles tackled immediately-pressing issues such as Brexit, the famous 'ever-closer union', and the widely-acknowledged notion of a 'two-speed EU' yesterday (Monday).
Spanish president Mariano Rajoy (PP) flew to France to meet with its president, François Hollande, plus German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Italian prime minister Paolo Gentolini.
Rajoy stressed he wanted Spain to get back to its one-time central role in the EU's functioning, since the general consensus is that the country has dropped into the background since its early days of fighting talk, ambitious and creative ideas and hands-on problem-solving during socialist president Felipe González's reign between 1982 and 1996.
“I believe now is the time for Europe to look long-term because, in the past, when it has done so, it has achieved some of the greatest milestones in its history,” Rajoy said.
Hollande was concerned about the remaining EU-27 forming a united front, especially in light of the UK's planned departure in early 2019, saying: “If divisions creep in, there's no capacity for influence. Unity does not mean uniformity – which is why I would advocate new forms of cooperation that differ between member States so that some countries can move forward more quickly than others.”
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Any (club) committee that Doe's not listen to it's memberships concerns is doomed to failure ...especially when your second biggest contributor is leaving due to mismanagement ..there are 28 members that make up the EU block (club) the UK contributes more in membership ship fee than 20 other members put together ,now we all know that rule's are rule's but sometimes you have to move with the times and modernize failure to accept failure's and change through modernization can only lead to one thing .FAILURE.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 09/03/2017.
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The Telegraph has been writing doom and gloom articles of the EU ever since the UK became a member. Together with the Daily Mail they have maintained a protracted campaign to influence the political process toward their right of center standpoint. I’ll give them a certain amount of credit for it having worked.
The EU is deeply traumatised by the Brexit vote. Nobody wanted Britain to leave the project despite being the enfant terrible of the process.
However that said the project will continue and will be successful because it’s in the best interests of 27 industrialised and successful nations. The vast majority of European peoples of moderate political opinions accept that. Yes there are the European extremists at both ends of the political spectrum trying to have their way. They make a lot of noise in the media but always fail where it matters in the ballot box.
Reform and change will come to the system with or without the UK. Possibly a Federal Europe with an elected head of state may not be far off. I hope to see it in my lifetime. I’m very optimistic for the future of the EU now Britain is going.
The future for Britain is less certain and I am pessimistic that the nation will struggle outside the block. Modern politics are about unity, cooperation and global trade. Britain is now facing possible the break up of it’s Union and alienation from it’s former EU partners. Multiple trade deals with other countries, will not replace the advantages of the single market.
It is entirely possible Britain eventually could find itself back in the seventies after suffering a decade of decline. I’m hoping the politicians involved can see that risk. Some can but they no longer hold the power strings and their influence is limited.
However make no mistake the UK is taking a huge leap in the dark with Brexit and I sometimes feel it’s a kamikaze process that’s unstoppable simply because of a small majority referendum vote and not a more considered general election campaign on this one single issue.
Blindly putting your nations future for the next hundred years on the line because of that one marginal result seems utterly reckless to me.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickeyfinn,
A few questions.....
Do you class all those striving for reform of a failing system "enfants terrible"?
Do you not perceive how Brexit has ironically been the catalyst for reform to finally be addressed by the EU bureaucrats as they put forward their options after the UK voted for Brexit?
Are you willing to at least respond with your viewpoint to the two tier system that appears to have been debated at the Versailles summit?
Do you not consider it possible to achieve a mutually beneficial outcome during the negotiations, and if not exactly why not?
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Mickey, your view of the UK after leaving the EU is rather narrow minded, and not even realistic. If you look at the UK and its trade with the EU, and the rest of the world, i am pretty sure the UK will survive and get through it. Maybe not without difficulties, but it will survive. Take a look at Switzerland as a non EU model, they interact with the EU, and observe certain EU regulations doing so. They are effectively a partner, and do fine as they are, outside the EU, but a trading partner. There is no reason the UK cannot do the same and prosper.
Less of the doom and gloom Mickey, step back and look at it realistically , and see the full potential that the UK could achieve.
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Yes Roberto that's entirely possible. However my point was there are no certainties with Brexit the risks are enormous and I would argue entirely unnecessary.
The risk is between two poles either the UK will fall flat on it’s face or prosper to the level it has reached as an EU member. I doubt it will get beyond that. How could it defy history but the optimists believe in almost anything. I prefer historical facts to guide my futurist predictions and particularly for my investments.
I lived through the fifties and seventies and remember how Britain struggled economically. The fifties was the aftermath of war the seventies industrial strife. Joining the EU made a huge difference to Britain and that fact should be recognised.
We can predict till we are blue in the face. My pessimism if that’s what it is; is tempered by years of studying markets and economic trends and uncertainty usually translates into either disaster or stagnation. This time I suspect the latter for Briatin at least for the medium term.
I dont doubt there are some political benefits and advantages to leaving the EU for Britain but unless they translate into economic ones. The point in leaving will be lost.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 09/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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robertt8696
Switzerland are part of EEA, single market and customs union and have freedom of movement
This is something the UK don't want apparenlty so the Swiss model will not work
Still have no answer from the brexiters if they would be happy if the UK remained in the single market with freedom of movement etc, after brexit - which is still an option that the UK govt may agree to during the negotiations
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Mickyfinn one thing I agree with you on is that the EU referendum was not wanted.... But unfortunately it was a necessary so the UK could have a democratic vote on staying IN or Getting OUT while we still had or shirt's the Democratic majority voted out due to the undemocratic policies that the EU have someone like yourself that has not live in the UK for the last 40 odd years did not get a vote in the UK because you and others like you basically have no idea on what is going on in the UK you should also give up reading news papers that gave out fake news and quote anti brexit Lie's.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 09/03/2017.
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It's a shame that such evaluation and concerns are not equally focused on cleaning up and regulating Europe's financial industry and Banks, ensuring compliance with ethical standards are adhered to.
The EU appear " impotent" or unwilling to use infringement processes where applicable, where for instance large-scale Bank abuse, corruption/ malpractice are left to proliferate ( leaving innocent citizens vulnerable with little option but to follow costly and lengthy litigation) whilst the Banks remain unregulated.
The EU have also failed to enact infringements against member states that fail to adhere to the rule of law, for instance where a Govt has compromised the Justice system by failing to provide adequate resource to ensure timely justice, ( which ironically acted as incentive for Banks to continue with their abusive behaviour at citizens expense).
Likewise the EU have failed to initiate "tools" to counter tax avoidance schemes from large corporations who unfairly refuse to recognise their moral and financial obligations to adequately contribute to all member states societies.
Likewise accountability to use EU funds wisely and in proportion, with due regard to cost effectiveness, ( not to mention ongoing austerity measures employed against member states suffering great hardship ( Greece) , for example the obscene spending and cost of the new " bubble" where European leaders are currently meeting.
“ The EU unveiled its futuristic new 321-million-euro headquarters on Wednesday, saying it symbolised 'joy' at a time of rising populist anger against Brussels that helped lead to Brexit.
A glass lantern-shaped structure inside a cube made of recycled window frames sourced from across the 28-nation bloc, the Europa building has been dubbed the "Space Egg" because of its otherwordly appearance.
At its heart is a huge room decked out in psychedelic rainbow carpets and ceiling tiles where European Union leaders will hold their summit meetings on the multiple crises that beset the bloc.
“ The building has faced criticism for its high cost and delays at a time when cash-strapped EU member states are wrestling with spending cuts and Brussels is trying to cut waste.. . “.....
Such hypocrisy beggars belief.
All too many EU failings that need to be honestly reviewed and addressed when assessing the effectiveness and accountability of the EU.
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“ The EU unveiled its futuristic new 321-million-euro headquarters on Wednesday, saying it symbolised 'joy' at a time of rising populist anger against Brussels that helped lead to Brexit.
I FOR ONE will be GLAD when the UK stops paying for all this EU DEMIGOD crap
Let the FROGS and KRAUTS carry on paying for all this FALSEHOOD were not the MUGS anymore
Love Hugh xx
Some names I made up when the others leave
Britain: Brexit
Norway: Noraway
Belgium: Byegium
Portugal: Departugal
Czech: Czechout
Italy: Italeave
Finland: Finish
Hungary: Donegary
Netherland: Nethermind
Latvia: Latervia
France: Fruckoff
Switzerland: Splitzerland
Austria: Austria La Vista
Poland: Polend
Denmark: Donemark
Luxembourg: Luxumbye
Only one country wants to stay, it is Romania.
Romania: Remainia.
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 09/03/2017.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Tadd,
Your observation with regard to staying in the single market with freedom of movement, is exactly why the unfair differentials need reviewing/ to be reassessed as part of the negotiations re access to the single market, i.e. for the UK to reach a mutually accessible deal would presumably be dependent on differentials being more fairly assessed.
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ads -“ The building has faced criticism for its high cost and delays at a time when cash-strapped EU member states are wrestling with spending cuts and Brussels is trying to cut waste.. . “.....
Such hypocrisy beggars belief.
That form of small minded limited vision was probably said when they built the Capitol building in Washington to represent the embodiment and centre of US Federal Democracy.
The EU is building a nation. It requires symbols. Economic problems like all problems have a way of solving thmselves. Why do you Brits care, sadly you’re not going to be part of the great project as it moves ever forward.
There will be bumps along the way. Brexit being just one but the direction is unstoppable. Long live the Treaty of Rome. Europhiles rejoice together at this milestone anniversary.
All across Europe the people who support the EU are in far greater numbers than they who do not, including Britain. So why would the EU fail? Where there is a will there is a way.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 09/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickey, Ads mentioned nothing about the EU failing , he just said that building a new edifice costing many millions of Euros, at a time when the EU needs as much funding as it can generate, was what he considers hypocracy. Why are you trying to twist the thread that was originally written? Do you not read them and absorb the point, or are you just being Naughty and provocative? The EU, and UK does not need such scurrilous naughtyness, it does no good for either side.
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ads writes about nothing else but the failures of the EU as she sees them. I prefer to be bullish because I believe in the project. I will write what I wish. Just as you will write your own view. That's what makes the thread interesting to read. Most of the time. I respect others view just as they should respect my right to challenge them.
Political debate is a brutal business you need a certain stomach for it even on thread forums such as this.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 09/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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