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In the recent summit that the UK did not attend and it was expected that they would discuss Brexit there was reported to be fierce argument:
North v South over economics.
East v West over free movement.
Does not sound like wide accord!
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''dereliction of duty'' Do you think that arrogant lot give a toss about ''DUTY''. Like all people in power, they will do as they like that suits their own self interest.
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The Catholic Church have been pressured to change it's core principles and they never have.
Hey, that's great, where do I go to buy my indulgences
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It's an interesting observation that expat French forums are largely sympathetic to remain and the quality of debate much less confrontational and more interesting. I could speculate on the reasons for that. Perhaps it's because the majority of expats in France are not so transient and have moved there as immigrants. It causes you to be more committed to a relationship with the country.
My comment about the Catholic Church was meant simply to illustrate how if you weaken core principles the purpose and foundations of the faith; or in the EU’s case the political project, then becomes less creditable.
It’s not the first time Britain has cut itself off from Europe politically. King Henry V111 did something similar when he split with Rome and the Catholic faith over his divorce in 1534. You could argue that then the power of the Pope in Rome over Europe was comparable with the European Union today. The split caused Britain to be isolated from the rest of Europe and led to wars that almost bankrupted the nation.
The ramifications of that split are still present today although in much less apparent ways. Henry plundered the wealth of the church in England which supported the indulgences of the Tudor dynasty and beyond. The tangible assets they built still contribute to the wealth of the UK nation today through tourism.
The Church of England that he founded has weakened it's core principles to such an extent it's now an irrelevance.
The consequences of Brexit I believe will have a similar impact on future generations of British people. Some of it will be very negative but if it’s handled well it could be equally positive.
Britain in this modern globalised world cannot successfully cut itself off from a continent that lies 22 miles from its shores. It cannot turn its back on the largest and most successful single trading market on the planet.
If Britain chooses isolation because of immigration the rest of Europe and for that matter the world will turn against it. That will make trade deals even harder to implement and impossible with Europe’s EU partners.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 25/09/2016.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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We are not cutting ourselves from Europe, just the EU. How many more times does it need to be said; we will be able to enter into free trade deals with the rest of the world; something the EU are unable to do, because of it's protectionist attitude. Who knows, we may even be able to get a decent deal from the EU over the single market! Our share of trade with the EU is going down, and the EU's share of world trade is also going down.
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Cutting off - to divide with or as if with a sharp-edged instrument; sever; carve: to cut a rope. 3. to detach with or as if with a sharp-edged instrument; separate from the main body; lopoff: to cut a slice from a loaf of bread.
The EU is the political and economic system within Europe. Britain is cutting itself off from what governs Europe and is surrendering its political and diplomatic influence. Britain after Brexit will become an irrelevant off shore nation in the political, economic and diplomatic life of Europeans.
World powers such as the US Japan and Russia in the future will ignore Britain after Brexit except for its place in Nato.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Are you suggesting the US, Japan and China don't bother trading with 'smaller' countries?
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Forgot to mention that little old Aus (population wise) has a trade deal with all 3.
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Interesting view of history Micky.
However you seem to forget that the reformation was happening in the rest of northern Europe as well. Leading to personal freedom, the freedom of science and learning and eventually our modern civlisation and democracy. So I suppose there is some comparison with an undemocratic monolith like the EU holding us back, much as the Roman church did for many centuries.
As usual however you have most things completely inside out. Britain would become an irrelevance submerged within the EU whereas alone has a chance of maintaining it's international standing.
Would that all religion was irrelevant. The world would be a much better place. The only bad thing that Mrs May has proposed so far is more religeous schools. This will only lead to more intolerance. One of the few things that France has right is the separation of state and religion. Having an impotent state religion is probably the next best thing but only if you suppress the evil done by other religions.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 25/09/2016.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 25/09/2016.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 25/09/2016.
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It now transpires that Theresa May would not join in with Cameron's and Osborne's catalogue of lies in respect of their post Brexit Armageddon predictions. She obviously had greater faith in this small insignificant country with the third largest population in the EU than they did. The possibility of a Swexit referendum would scare the pants off the Brussels brigade, because when we invoke Article 50 and the sky doesn't fall in they will very likely join us.
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Tenerife wrote
Are you suggesting the US, Japan and China don't bother trading with 'smaller' countries?
No of course not. I am suggesting Britain power and influence in the world will be diminished outside the EU. As an EU member Britain has more than just trade advantages. It has a seat at the table of decision making for the political and economic direction of Europe. Without the UK Europe will proceed in ways which may not be favorable to Britain and there is nothing Britain can do. It will be impodent in influence.
I have no idea why tteedd believes after Brexit Britain "has a chance of maintaining it's international standing". Wishful thinking methinks.Quite the opposite usually is the inevitable result of leaving something powerful to it's own devices.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Impodent - without feet?
I have no idea why tteedd believes after Brexit Britain "has a chance of maintaining it's international standing". Wishful thinking methinks.Quite the opposite usually is the inevitable result of leaving something powerful to it's own devices.
Certainly has no chance any international standing as part of an EU monolith.
An offshore island of the USofE? Itself a poor shadow of the Chinese, US, Brazilian, Russian and Indian trading blocks.
Quaint little place with Beefeaters, Big Ben,Whisky & Windsor castle
or
fourth biggest world economy with place on security council and proud history.
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Deleted
This message was last edited by tteedd on 25/09/2016.
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The UK is the greatest country in the world we have more TALENT than any other COUNTRY and that's a FACT
We give more per CAPITA to charity and meaningful causes than any other nation FACT
WE have welcomed many different Colour And Crede to our shores and are the most TOLERENT nation on the PLANET
BREXIT will be a success because we will make it just THAT
And anyone that DOUBTS that is a FOOL
Love HUGH xxx
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bb
This message was last edited by mariedav on 26/09/2016.
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The U.K.’s vote to leave the European Union has left more than three-quarters of chief executive officers saying they would consider moving their headquarters or operations outside Britain, according to a survey of 100 business leaders by the accountancy firm KPMG.
“CEOs are reacting to the prevailing uncertainty with contingency planning,”
The survey suggests Prime Minister Theresa May has work to do to retain businesses and jobs as the U.K. seeks a deal with the EU that curbs immigration while retaining the closest trading ties possible with the bloc’s 27 other members. Before the referendum, the then-Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne said a vote to leave would endanger as many as 820,000 jobs.
Source Bloomberg.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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MickyFinn,
Never trust the alleged results of surveys. They are invariably an attempt to to catch media attention and generate free publicity for the producer - "Which Magazine" do it all the time, helps to sell subscriptions.
The survey result from KPMG reports "...they would consider moving their headquarters...". The key word is "consider"...and the obvious answer is "yes" - but it's still highly unlikely to happen.
George Osborne's comment is also not to be taken too seriously. He said lots of daft things before Brexit in an attempt to bully the voters, most of which backfired! Still waiting for the emergency budget.
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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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That may be so Acer but anyone in business that relies in the single market or free access to Europe must from necessity make contingency plans for their future.
If wake up one morning and find yourself stuck in a country that only has a trade deal with Australia and you face tariffs on your goods you will only have yourself to blame.
Unless and until the UK government give business a clue what the future direction of the country will look like post Brexit, companies will start to drift abroad.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn,
I've only been on the periphery of this discussion and happy to remain that way. My post was really as I thought you were scraping the barrel a bit with your quotes.
But there's no going back, so surely it's best to think positively? I suspect most business leaders will follow this line of thinking rather than prematurely make an ill informed exit and "drift abroad" as you imply. CEO's of large companies don't tend to drift. No doubt a few have already decided in principle to leave, some will be waiting, others will be looking for new opportunities outside the EU.
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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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