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ads -Your scenario is forcing the UK to ignore the democratic vote of the MEMBER STATE of the United Kingdom, Mickeyfinn.
No. The Scottish second referendum if it takes place will be legally approved with the consent of the UK government
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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The UK, as a member state has decided to exit from the EU, by a democratic referendum vote based upon the whole of that member state and not individual nations or regions within it.
Our democratic process and original accession to the EU looked to the whole and not individual nations. Are you suggesting that there should have been a breakdown by nation on every matter that the UK has voted upon in the EU?
We are a member state as a whole, and currently recognised as such within the EU. To suggest otherwise just for the convenience of not agreeing with the result of the democratic referendum vote appears illogical.
This message was last edited by ads on 13/03/2017.
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Funny how the brexiters have been going on about wanting control back and the ability to make their own laws and spouting off about pride in the nation etc.
Now Scotland is doing the same they are crying foul.
Maybe the Scots have simply had enough of English rule and controls and they want the full ability to set and decide their own future separately from England.
Clearly the Scottish people want something different than the English so accept it and move on
The dictatorship of the UK PM is refusing to recognise this or even consider a compromise – a bit of pot, kettle and black
The warnings from Scotland have been clear enough and sadly ignored by the govt
Good luck to them and I wish them well whatever they decide.
Will an independent Scotland give many businesses the opportunity to relocate there?
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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** EDITED **The WHOLE of the UNITED KINGDOM (this INCLUDES Scotland ) voted as a UNITED KINGDOM to enter the EU, and so to leave the EU, we must all member countries of the UNITED KINGDOM leave together, there is NO negotiation over that. Once Article 50 is triggered we all leave there is no alternative.
Once we have all left, Nicola Sturgeon can apply to the UNITED KINGDOM Government to leave the UNITED KINGDOM, and become an independant country once more (similar to the UK leaving the EU). Once that referendum is taken, and the result known, its up to the Scottish politicians to go forward and comply with the votes outcome. Then if a Scottish exit from the UK happens, then, and ONLY THEN can Nicola Sturgeon negotiate a membership with the EU in Scotlands own right, not off the back of the existing UK arrangement.** EDITED **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/13/2017 11:42:00 PM.
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ads Are you suggesting that there should have been a breakdown by nation on every matter that the UK has voted upon in the EU?
You have either missed the point or are playing devils advocate. Scotland voted to remain a part of the UK because its political status was that of a full EU member. The Brexit referendum took that away from them and created a new situation. A potential new state outside the EU. That is not what the Scottish people wanted when they decided to remain a UK nation.
The question on their referendum ballot was not this - DO YOU WISH TO REMAIN PART OF THE UK AND OUTSIDE THE EU IF THE UK SO DECIDES.
The goal posts were moved. The Scots need to be given a second choice. It's that simple.
If you cannot see that then I suggest you read up on constiutional law.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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'Ian Russell McEwan CBE FRSA FRSL'
My god Micky - he's wierder than you!
Or is that just one of his Gothic Short stories?
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Mickeyfinn, in essence you have a point but the EU cannot release just part of the UK after exit, it is up to Scotland to lobby to exit the UK, just as the UK is leaving the EU, and then once they are independent from England, take another referendum, and then negotiate their own membership of the EU. Simple.
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I still have a dream, a dream deeply rooted in the UNITED KINGDOM dream – one day this nation will rise up and live up to its creed, "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream
QUITE POINIANT ON THE EVE OF OUR RELEASE
SLAVES no more
Love Hugh xx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Well done to NS in standing up for the will of the Scottish people.
That is exactly what she is not doing.
The will of the Scottish people was expressed in a referendum less than two years ago and they voted decisively to remain in the union.
Sturgeon and her party went into the last general election promising that it was the 'last referendum for a generation' and won an overwhelming victory on that ticket. (Just listen to the fuss when the chancellor got 5% of a promise on NIC's wrong!).
75% of Scots said they did not want another referendum in a recent poll.
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The EU / UK situation is totally different to the UK / Scotland one. But if their is anything to said about it, it is ridiculous to want to take back soveriegnty from a 300 year democratic union only to give it to a new undemocratic one.
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Richard Dawkins and others recently said that it would be logical to have a 66% hurdles for constitutional referenda. He was of course thinking of the recent one. In this case I do not agree with him as we never had a 66% or any type of plebicite to go in. But generally it is a sensible suggestion.
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A recent report said that there were more people with Scottish ancestry living in the SE of England than the population of Scotland.
Why do we English not get a say in the break up of the UK?
Why did Blair give the Scottish devolved government when they voted against it? (another massive error, he thought it would give labour the whip hand in Scotland!).
May should just tell Sturgeon she is not getting her referndum. It would be like popping a balloon.
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Hugh the Russian statement rings in my ears during communism, "all men are created equal, but some are more equal than others...."
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Lost in the mists, and long ago a tiny flame began
Flickered in the dismal gloom, took shape became a man
Trembled as it struggled to warm a cold grey dawn
And the greatest Island nation known to man, was born.
From such obscure beginnings this country bred its sons
It's grim determination in times of war..begun
This island home of mighty kings, set in a sea so clear
This beating heart that draws me home, this land I love so dear.
Throughout the years its fortunes changed, often it hung its head
Sometimes it scaled the dizzy heights, sometimes its heart was bled.
Throughout its days in times of strife, this nation stood as one
In other times and other scenes, in silence...and alone.
Yet through it all its people came, and answered to the call
They never shirked their duty, each came and stood for all
And when the call was over, and some did not return
The ones who did, remembered, through them we all can learn.
We stand together once again, to face a great unknown
a huge adventure waits for us not to be faced alone.
Clasp your brothers hand in yours, let all flags be unfurled
And walk together hand in hand, towards this brave new world.
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NO SNIDE COMMENTS PLEASE. STICK TO THE THREAD SUBJECT.
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Will those hands be clasped as we try to strike mutually beneficial outcomes?
The Parliament has spoken and rejected the Lord's amendments....Later tonight the Lord's peers return to consider the EU withdrawal bill since the Commons rejected both Lord's amendments.
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Although this is just the start, the breakup of the UK in now inevitable. I find it hard to believe that Scotland won't vote for independance. I suspect that when they decide to do this they will have the full support of Trump.
The English government can do nothing but try to delay the approval of a Section 30 vote. If they do delay they will be challenged and that will only harden the resolve of the Scottish people.
It won't happen in the next two years, but the unifying of the Irelands will follow. I have no idea what the Welsh people will do, but unless their palms are greased with money they may well look to the EU as well. Cornwall also cannot be ruled out. They have never identified as English, but neither have they identified with the EU. But. £60million per year from the EU is a big difference to £18Million a year from the UK.
I think we can however count on Jaywick Sands remaining in the Kingdom; is that correct Hugh?
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Mickey was a man who thought he was a loner
But he knew it wouldn't last
Mickey left his home in the U.K.
For some FRENCH grass
Get back, get back
Get back to where you once belonged
Get back, get back
Get back to where you once belonged
Get back Mickey go home
The CARAVAN next doors up for SALE MICK but you probably can't afford it NOW
Love Hugh xx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Careful Hugh. They'll say you want a revolution.
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Best wishes, Brian
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** EDITED - Against forum rules **
Anyway the Scots have as much right to go for indepenance as the uk have to leave the eu
Yes we are the uk but still 4 very strong nations and the devolution process will carry on as this union disolves as a result of a very bad ill thought out referendum ** EDITED - Against forum rules **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/13/2017 11:45:00 PM.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Divide and rule PP? No hands clasped there then when trying to seek mutually beneficial solutions.
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You were warned this could happen
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** EDITED **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/14/2017 8:57:00 AM.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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** EDITED - inciting **
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/13/2017 11:48:00 PM.
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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