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So most of the famed EU infrastructure funding went to the richer countries anyway.
http://spanishnewstoday.com/spain-is-one-of-the-biggest-beneficiaries-of-eu-infrastructure-funding_80800-a.html
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Not necessarily the richest, just the one's who ( sensibly) had more influential people on the inside pulling more strings for the benefit of their particular country - and what's wrong with that?.
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Scollins
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Angela Merkel appealed to German firmsin a speech yesterday to show a united front with EU governments in negotiations over Britain’s departure from the bloc, urging them to support the principle of “full access to the single market only in exchange for signing up to the four freedoms”
Markus Kerber, the leader of Germany’s largest industry group, said last week that trade, investments and single market solidarity with the rest of the EU were more important than the volume of business German companies do with Britain
The likelyhood of a hard Brexit looks akmost a done deal.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Big Business does not listen to GOVERMENT they find them a HINDERENCE to profit for Shareholders
The UK spends 100s of billions on imports from across the EU the FROGS and KRAUTS will still need that MONEY
EVERY Ecconomic Indicator is POSITIVE the devaluation of the POUND is only a real PROBLEM for EXPATS who now contribute very little to the UK anyway
Love Hugh xxx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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In the real world, devaluation is relevant to everyone in the UK as the UK has a trade imbalance and imports will cost more from fuel to food and this will percolate through to the inflation rate and ultimately interest rates. Remember Harold Wilson's attempt to put a brave face on devaluation during a particularly acute stirling crisis in the 60's?
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Scollins
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Hugh, I think you have seriously mistaken the impact that currency devaluation will have.
Government borrows quite a lot of money from overseas providers. This needs to be repaid; when the strength of your currency drops by 20-30%, it means you will, as a country, have to pay an extra 20-30%.
This means ALL taxpayers will be hit, just for interest costs, let alone the principle (which can always be kicked along the road if you believe some people).
Inflation is also imported; look at the rising cost of fuel, again, just because it costs more to buy due to a weaker pound. Every firm that has things delivered will eventually have to pay more, and those costs will be transferred to the consumer. So, if you need to eat? Unless you grow your own, you will pay more.
Inflation will find its way into everything. There are plenty of solid economics articles available online that will explain this to whatever degree of depth you would like.
Thinking "it wont affect me", is missing the wood for the trees, I'm afraid.
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Did any of you vote out? Its having a huge impact on my business with the exchange rate!
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All this worry over Euro Exchange rates 2009 it hit 1.04 its 1.17 today all the Brits abroad on pensions will just have to tighten there BELTS a little ,if they weathered 1.04 WHATS THE PROBLEM
Love Hugh xxx
Did any of you vote out? BIT OF A NON QUESTION REALLY as most expats will be biased bit like the JOCKS
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 06/10/2016.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Hugh, I guess thats the point. The exchange rate isn't just vs the euro. Its vs everything, ie US dollar, Yuan Renmimbi, etc. And your comment about Brits abroad completely ignores the other 64 million people in the UK itself.
Its all well and good to tell people to tighten their belts; maybe you're in a good spot in life and can afford to tighten your own belt.
But I do wonder how the less fortunate will cope when food prices go up.
This message was last edited by rob_j1 on 06/10/2016.
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Sterling is todayworth €1.13 and €1.26. I see parity in the distance after a hard Brexit. These over sold exchange rates benefit no one. However even at parity with the Euro Spain's cost of living is still better than the UK. I have always regarded Sterling and the Euro as worth the same. Below parity and the pain really begins.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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The profit taking from FTSE stocks hasn't taken place yet, as and when it does I wager that the £ will strengthen against the other leading currencies. Brexit is not a quick fix deal, I suggest that everyone gives it a couple of years post Article 50 before declaring the arrival of Armageddon.
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Mickyfinn,
"I have always regarded Sterling and the Euro as worth the same" - really? As I recall, for a long time it was 1.4 or so euros to the £.
But as an aside, if you need the FX company with the sharpest pencil I suggest you try World First, particularly good on small transfers, which I believe makes sense curently.
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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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I think Micky and others daily predicting the further collapse of sterling against the Euro have really failed to look at the EU economy, it's banking crisis, it's underfunded pension funds and the extent of the loans and credits made to the PIGs economies.
Not a lot of internal growth in the EU economy to bail it out, unless of course they can persuade those nice people at Apple, Google, Starbucks and all to pay some taxes tonIreland who will bail out the Euro, single handed.
Does anyone seriously think the Euro is going to be a long term haven for International funds?
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Hugh,
When discussing the EU economy, I think there are a few points to mention:
1. Today, they have 500 million consumers; the UK has only 64 million
2. Their risk with respect to trade with the UK is ~9%. However the UK's risk is closer to ~44%. If the EU tells the UK to stick it, they will suffer a fair bit, its true. But the UK?
3. Talk about banking crisis. Have you forgotten the nationalisations in the UK? Northern Rock ring a bell?
4. Underfunded pensions? Same story in every western country, including the UK. We're all living too long.
5. Loans? I'm not that familiar with the point, to be honest.
Wll the Euro be a long term haven? Who knows. But for the moment, all I see is a pound in decline, no new trade deals on the horizon, and anyone who understands economics will tell you, that inflation is going to bite hard once all hedged purchases work their way through the system, and buyers have to start buying with a weakened pound. That may be a few months away, but the weaker pound is a fact, and as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, when it costs suppliers more to buy their raw materials, they will pass on the costs to the end consumer. This isn't a case of either remainers or brexiters wanting to feel one way or the other, but purely the market at work.
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So now we really are suggesting that the whole of the EU, both customers of ours and sellers to the UK will pull the plug and leave 64mill to their own devices?? Unlikely but possible we will all be driving electric or hybrid Toyotas rather than polluting diesel powered Mercs.
Perhaps you should consider the comparative sizes of Deutsch and Commerz Bank to Northern Rock and the German banks are supposedly far stronger than those in Italy, Ireland, Spain not to mention Greece.
I still have a mortgage with Virgin who took over Northern Rock.
Did depositors suffer?
Germany now considering state pensions at 69 the French social security system has been in deficit for many years, yes of course we are all living longer but the younger generation have to pay, youth unemployment in Spain, circa 40%.
State Pensions in Germany, France and even Ireland far more generous than UK.
You may also wish to check out the bail outs made to Greece, Ireland etc. Apple paying tax may just help repay some of that.
At the moment all you see is the pound in decline, well yes it has fallen 20% in a few months but was at some stage 1.04 v the Euro and has recovered over a period of years, give it a chance.
You may remember oil reached over 100 dollars a barrel due to various speculators but a resource so commonly used has now halved in price, speculators are not always right.
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Hugh,
You're asking me if the EU will cut us adrift? Short answer is, I don't know. I can only repeat what I've seen on the media, and also think about the politics at play. And for clarity's sake, politics has always been defined to me as "the redistribution of wealth".
What do we know about this? Well, the EU will want to take any opportunity to redistribute wealth to themselves. Do you genuinely think they'll say to us "yes, by all means leave, and take the entire kitty with you?" Brexiters seem to think the UK has some magic leverage. Why? We need them far more than they need us, as the trade figures mentioned amply show.
As for what we'll be driving, I dont know if it will be diesel Merc's, or Toyotas, but your choice of Toyota was interesting. Did you see that Shinzo Abe specifically asked Mrs May to protect the interests of Japanese companies who use the UK as a base from which to enter the EU market? And of course, Mrs May is unable to do that, because no terms of Brexit have been agreed to. Theres that word again - agreed. This is not a unilateral agreement that the UK sets out, but something that 27 other countries will have a voice in. Come back to the point about redistribution of wealth, and what do you believe these other countries will do? Surely you've seen the discussion already about Germany and France eyeballing the financial services sector? And I guess the 800 pound gorilla in the room is this; will the EU elite punish the UK so severely that it makes other potential leavers think twice?
Banking
Good points you've raised, but you forgot to mention that the UK government had to step in to save the day, certainly as has the ECB. This has come at a cost, and we've seen people up and down the UK suffering austerity measures post GFC. All the money that was borrowed, has to be paid back, with ever weakening sterling. And all the while, UK people have been tightening their belts already, and now we see the latest, with the new chancellor stating the targets for returning the budget to the black have been sacrificed. Apparently "things have changed"... I can only refer you back to the value of sterling. I'm not looking into the future, nor looking at the past, neither scaremongering, nor speculating. I am only telling it like it is today, which is to say that the interest payment is bigger than it used to be, and by some margin (20-30%), especially when talking about a deficit principle which is measured in the billions of pounds.
Pensions, unemployment, and Greece - Agree with your points here.
Apple - not sure what the point here is. I think Apple will say they followed the rules. If anyone was at fault, it seems to be Ireland with their "tax competition" laws.
This message was last edited by rob_j1 on 06/10/2016.
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If you view the Brexit majority vote literally as politicians tells us we have to, then leave is what people voted for. Not to negotiate access to the single market or side deals on immigration, it was simply leave. This means a hard Brexit.
François Hollande confirmed such a view yesterday, Merkle the day before. The EU will not budge from their four red lines. There can be no weakening of their core values because of contagion. Other states will also start demanding a ‘pick and mix’ Europe and it just ‘aint on. These leaders are not posturing their positions before negotiations. They are simply pointing out the ‘réal politique’
The financial media and many politicians of all colours have been desperately trying to salvage something positive from this referendum but there is nothing left in the wreckage. The damage has been done. It’s an irreversible decline back to the seventies awaiting Britain.
The process of wrecking the UK economy began when Cameron foolishly and with some arrogance believed he would win. Had he been in closer touch with the groundswell of ordinary opinion he would have perhaps had second thoughts. As it is he and everyone else have now paid a price. The bill has not arrived yet but over the next two years they will start thudding on the door mat.
Can any process alleviate it? Separate Trade deals with the rest of the world maybe, Fracking perhaps a little but that’s going to take years. What is certain the single market the source of Britain’s wealth over that last four decades is dead. The rest of the EU can manage very nicely thank you without the UK which is another hard lesson for the British coming down the line.
The freedoms ordinary people have enjoyed for years are over and accepting these new realities are a hard lesson for us all, even the most ardent Brexiteer as the joy of victory subsides.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Perhaps it's also time for the EU to start addressing the 120 billion euros being lost to corrupt practices, Mickeyfinn, if this report is correct.
http://www.tumbit.com/news/articles/11418-spain-officially-most-corrupt-country-in-eu.html
It shouldn't have to be this way, surely?
Where are the disincentives and proactive reforms to combat this problem? You talk of freedoms well where is the freedom to be rid of these abusive corrupt practices and lack of accountability that impacts innocent citizens?
This message was last edited by ads on 07/10/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 07/10/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 07/10/2016.
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Ads:
The Spanish themselves need to confront their corrupt culture head on. It's an endemic way of life in Spain. From the more modest backhanders that are a part of everyday life to the huge regional government contracts with 10% added for 'commissions'. It's always commissions, never bungs.
It's the regionalisation of government that becomes unaccountable that is a major contributor to Spanish corruption. That and political party deference to those elected councils and officials. I have been involved with politics and business in Spain over the years and have seen with my own eyes how corruption is seen as just an acceptable form of transaction, justified by they who do it as being for the greater good.
How do you change a culture that is so woven into the fabric of society at every level? Where would the EU start to try and prevent it? It's too greater a task.
The Spanish have recently started protesting against it. Support for Podemos is part of that but the vested interests in the most corrupt political party in Europe, the PP have still a grasp on all the levers of power. Why? Business interests and political groups have too much to lose.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickyfinn
The Spanish themselves need to confront their corrupt culture head on.
I agree but it is not just the Spanish it happens all over the world.
The Spanish govt are trying and change is coming slowly but the mentality of the people including many expats also needs to change
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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