| The Comments |
You have misunderstood many of my posts.
People do not misunderstand your posts. You have stated the same thing too many times.
You think the EU is marvelous, the UK is going to hell in a handcart and anyone who thinks differently is misguided.
We beg to differ.
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Then there is Suez I could go on.
It has been a fashion for about 40 years now to denigrate the past of our nation.
All nations make mistakes, indeed some have a positively evil past.
However the past is a different place. If you put yourself in the perspective of the times in which the events happened before making judgements you will find that no nation has a prouder history.
Unlike you I am proud to be British and even prouder of my nations past.
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tteed - As pointed out on this thread recently we cannot hope to feed the population from our own resources so we should not be seeking to increase our population.
As backward and limited thinking as I can imagine. Even Mrs May does not believe that. You cannot make trade deals with the rest of the world without accepting skills and manpower from those countries in tandem. They simply won't accept it.
If you reduce food imports many a livelyhood will be lost and not replaced by a self sufficiency good life mentality. It is unrealistic.
The world is now a globalised industrial economy. You seem to want to turn back the clock. Is that the best you can do as an argument for voting Brexit? If so it's worse than I thought. What's next closed borders and the Navy patrolling the coasts to keep out ‘Johnny Foreigner’.
Nationalism causes war, Don't you know that. Being proud of a nation is hubris and self-satisfying. You can be pleased with achievement where it's merited but national pride for it's own sake is ugly.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 12/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Micky
As usual, totally misrepresting me and putting in things I have never said.
Even Mrs May does not believe that.
Are you on good terms with her then?
You cannot make trade deals with the rest of the world without accepting skills and manpower from those countries in tandem. They simply won't accept it.
Why and why not?
If you reduce food imports many a livelyhood will be lost and not replaced by a self sufficiency good life mentality. It is unrealistic.
Nothing to do with what I was saying.
The world is now a globalised industrial economy. You seem to want to turn back the clock. Is that the best you can do as an argument for voting Brexit? If so it's worse than I thought. What's next closed borders and the Navy patrolling the coasts to keep out ‘Johnny Foreigner’.
Total misrepresentation.
Nationalism causes war, Don't you know that. Being proud of a nation is hubris and self-satisfying. You can be pleased with achievement where it's merited but national pride for it's own sake is ugly.
There is a very big difference between Nationalism and being proud of your country. Another big misrepresentation.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 12/03/2017.
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Mickeyfinn nationalism causes war what a statement are you sure ......Just look at what the Liberals have done to the Netherlands with riot's and a failure to integrated or don't you bother with TV news .
The Dutch government made a statement to the Turks that are rioting if you do not like it hear go back to Turkey.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 12/03/2017.
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windtalker
UK population growh will happen (as it will across most of the world) with or without brexit so it is a silly statement you make in the place on a brexit thread
Post brexit a larger poulation, increased unemployment due to lack of jobs and industry, morr rleinac eom imports (with tariffis ), more mouths to feed, more eductaion, more health care services all from the benefits pot etc etc etc
The UK has nothing unique and most industry depends upon exports and foreign ownership and foreign inversment which will decline as other countreis offer bettetr terms and access to teh single market, it is alreday happening and many companies have plans in place as they awiat teh outcoem of teh exit dela
Still asking the exiters will they be happy if the UK remain in the single market with freedom of movement or not?
Nobody has a choice but come on answer the simple question
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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"Still asking the exiters will they be happy if the UK remain in the single market with freedom of movement or not?"
Not sure if I should answer your Q or not Tad. All it usually gets is a misunderstanding, and it has been answered many times already, but here goes:
Single Market
We voted out of the EU. The single market is part of the EU and " 'Exit means 'Exit ". However all sensible people want a good trading relationship. 'Tarriff free' being the gold standard, and there is no reason, given good will, why we should not acheive that because that is what we have at the moment.
Freedom of movement
Is a symptom of the fact that we do not have control of our own laws and asperations. Our last administration made promises it could not achieve because we are in the EU. We want democratic control and we also want our own parliament to be supreme and represent the British people. If our government, that we elect, wants to stop immigration then it should be able to do so. If our government wants to allow selective skilled immigration then it should be free to do so. If it wants free unfetterred immigration then that would also be in it's remit (but it would loose the next election). Which brings us full circle, we want control of all our law making, not just on free movement, from the UK
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Tadd 1966 I could not give a answer in a few words ..But what I will say is that the pro Europe camp should stop blaming the pro leavers for all the problems that Brexit will bring they should be blaming the politicians for the mess they have got the UK into .By not implementing change's to accommodate the migrants .
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As backward and limited thinking as I can imagine. Even Mrs May does not believe that. You cannot make trade deals with the rest of the world without accepting skills and manpower from those countries in tandem. They simply won't accept it.
Micky sorry but you really don't see it do you? no one has said anything about stopping people coming here from the EU with the nessary skills that the UK is getting short of, mostly of our own making, what manpower do you mean? is it the fact that people from Turkey who cannot come here legally, then check out the numerous Turkish mens barbers that are opening up with different staff every month, check out the kebab shops with a turn over of workers more then the food, and many more doing the same, said this so many times now, I am involved with incomers one day a week, I do not see any people from within the EU, unless you mean the Syrians, Iraqi's, and so on, who tell me they are Dutch, French and anything else they can lie about, the other hundred or so are from countries who have no right to be here, no skills, put nothing into our system, take as much out as they can, cause trouble when they can, and will NOT integrate.
If you reduce food imports many a livelihood will be lost and not replaced by a self sufficiency good life mentality. It is unrealistic.
Somewhere someone will sell the products they produce, have done in the past, will do so in the future.
The world is now a globalised industrial economy. You seem to want to turn back the clock. Is that the best you can do as an argument for voting Brexit? If so it's worse than I thought. What's next closed borders and the Navy patrolling the coasts to keep out ‘Johnny Foreigner’.
Our Royal Navy already patrols our coast lines for many reason, illegals one of them, you are not told of the extent of this because you don't need to know, but they can't be everywhere.
Nationalism causes war, Don't you know that. Being proud of a nation is hubris and self-satisfying. You can be pleased with achievement where it's merited but national pride for it's own sake is ugly.
This country, the UK is a very proud nation, sure we have a lot of problems at the moment with our home grown idiots but for the most part the biggest problem is the rubbish that is coming into it that wants to destroy what it has taken us hundreds of years to put right. No politician ever looks further then the front door of their own house, the Queen thinks this country smells of fresh paint, every one of them is protected from the troubled areas, never visit them to see what is really going on, and worse then anything are not interested in what the public tell them because they are all blinkered into thinking and believe that every one who comes in, will vote for them and pays Tax.
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windtalker
We have been down this road before many times and immigration is NOT the EU's fault and Brexit is NOT going to fix it how many times has this got to be said
As for blaming the brexiters yes it will be their fault no matter as they were the ones who voted out and gave the govt carte blanche to agree whatever brexit deal they want with NO accountability to anyone
So come on answer the question would you (as an exiter) be happy with a deal that takes the UK out of the EU but remains part of single market with freedom of movement?
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd 1966 the single market is a good idea but if it includes mass uncontrollable migration ...Then what I would say is that it comes at to high a price any country that does not control it's borders by stopping undesirables entering is heading for trouble .. Controlled emigration is the only way forward ...You mark my words when the UK leaves the EU .The EU will implement Border controlls if they don't the nomadic economic migrants will move from country to country overloading their chosen countries resources .
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windtalker
The UK has excellent border controls now and it does not stop immigartion
When the French close the camps in Calais and kick out UK BF from France it will get worse as immigration camps start yo get set up in Dover
If I recall correctly Switzerland tried to have a caveat in freedom of movement and it was rejected
The only price for the UK in immigartion is what is on offer in the UK from the UK system (jobs and free benefist to all)
You really need to separate this issue of immgartion you have from brexit there are far bigger implictaions and risks for us all
Will an exit stop EU citizens from wanting to come to UK - no they will still find a way and join the rest of the non EU migranst trying to get to the UK as long as the UK keep offering jobs and free benefits
So it seems you would be happy with a brexit deal that keeps the UK in the single market and freedom of movenment for EU citizens with a caveat, but what will you say if it is agreed as it is now?
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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I see clearly that I'm not mistaken in my conclusion on why Brexit happened if these ‘outers’ posts represent main stream British thinking. All it sadly is is a mixture of basic prejudice, mis-information and ignorance of liberal democratic political thinking in the world.
This ghastly mistake the British are making is based on nothing more.
India has already clearly said if the UK wants a free trade deal they will have to agree to accept visa free migrant labour in the country. That can happen because each country will make it a condition the British will have to accept or walk away.
The British will need free trade deals with just about every nation on the planet to replace the EU single market in terms of economic value to the nation. Just like the EU single market, the idea that any free trade deal with other nations can come without negatives or costs for Britain is simply unrealistic.
It is quite clear Brexit happened because the public were misled and conned. It’s very easy to persuade people to act in a certain way when they play to their personal prejudices. The price for that is going to be very high eventually for the people involved.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 12/03/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I voted remain and i'm proud of it MP
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"So come on answer the question"
Tadd
Now you are really being exasperating. It was answered (for the umpteenth time) 20 minutes before your post!
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"I voted remain and i'm proud of it MP"
Good for you. With any luck you will never get the chance to regret it.
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Mickeyfinn you are very naughty and provocative by things you say, such as," It’s very easy to persuade people to act in a certain way when they play to their personal prejudices. What about your own "personal prejudices" which keep you banging on about why the UK should stay in the EU without any truly valid reasons for remaining, other than you harping on about the rate of exchange and how it will devalue your pension, a pension which as i stated earlier you should consider yourself lucky to retain, seeing as you live in the EU .
You also say "The price for that is going to be very high eventually for the people involved." well it is a price most UK citizens who voted in or out are more than happy to endure, as being patriotic and considerate, they know they can hold true to their beliefs, whereas you dont wish to be patriotic, or seem to have any right thinking belief, you have sold yourself out to the EU, and can see nothing else.
The EU peddles the belief that as we are all as good as a federal state we should all be one unified state of "good europeans", but i disagree, we should all care for the country of our birth, and be only too quick to praise that country, WHATEVER country we come from, and be "good europeans" as a secondary consideration. If that is patriotism, give me patriotism first, and being a good european second, and i will take the consequences. If you are considerate being patriotic makes no difference to the relationship you hold with other countries, and if you think differently you are a very poor soul.
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I voted but i am proud to be British
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Well said Robert, we can all be European but British first.
Europeans are strongly nationalistic, I met a lovely Dutch couple last night in Spain who expressed their hatred of the French because of the way they were treated in the past by some.It takes all sorts but the EU model is NOT the B all and end all as you rightly say.
The UK will not lose out by being part of Europe but NOT the current EU.
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I see clearly that I'm not mistaken in my conclusion on why Brexit happened if these ‘outers’ posts represent main stream British thinking. All it sadly is is a mixture of basic prejudice, mis-information and ignorance of liberal democratic political thinking in the world.
This ghastly mistake the British are making is based on nothing more.
India has already clearly said if the UK wants a free trade deal they will have to agree to accept visa free migrant labour in the country. That can happen because each country will make it a condition the British will have to accept or walk away.
The British will need free trade deals with just about every nation on the planet to replace the EU single market in terms of economic value to the nation. Just like the EU single market, the idea that any free trade deal with other nations can come without negatives or costs for Britain is simply unrealistic.
It is quite clear Brexit happened because the public were misled and conned. It’s very easy to persuade people to act in a certain way when they play to their personal prejudices. The price for that is going to be very high eventually for the people involved.
More baloney and more MY OPINION from the Mickey Taker
The EU was conceived at a time of high international trade tariffs, long gone, but maybe soon to reappear in the USA.
Globalisation and WTO treaties have brought average trade tariffs down to very low numbers, so what is all this crap about Free Trade Deals?
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