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Anyone who has followed the IMechE knows that the industry has been warning for 15 years that we were going to run out of engineers and needed to find a way of getting more people to study engineering especially women. The latest events are not surprising at all. The National Grid was trying seven years ago to recruit potential engineers from prison.
People in the UK are not interested in becoming engineers. I don't know why...nor do you. But if we can't get home grown ones we need to go abroad.
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People in the UK are not interested in becoming engineers. I don't know why...nor do you. But if we can't get home grown ones we need to go abroad.
I don't believe anyone is arguing against 'controlled migration', that is to say if we don't have the skills available internally, we then acquire them from abroad, whther this be the EU or further afield'
So long as it is the 'dog wagging the tail' and not the 'tail wagging the dog' then everything is manageable.
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Micky
You have a conflicting story regarding Toblerone thatn the one I have seen, their comments below:
However there are questions over whether the rise in the cost of ingredients was due to currency fluctuation after June’s EU referendum.
Mondelez told the BBC: “This change wasn’t done as a result of Brexit.”
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Al,
We don't have enough Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Social Care workers, Bankers, or seasonal labours let alone enough people who are prepared to work in the hospitality industry. EU citizens come here for work, they find it. As soon as that is pointed out the cry from UK people is that all they do is reduce wages (apparently they are willing to work for less than we are) and that they are a drag on the economy (which there is no evidence of at all.)
Baz,
We get many refugees as well which we are able to control, but we don't and no amount of Brexiting will stop that issue.
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Here is another case. The makers of Toblerone the pyramid shaped chocolate bar have announced this morning that their bars in the UK will now have every other pyramid piece of chocolate missing because of Brexit and the costs of weakened Sterling. I kid you not. Heres a pic.http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37904703
That is not true at all, for years nearly every, lets say chocolate makers, have been cutting back, look at those sweet tins that have been getting smaller in the quantity over the past years, Mars bars are almost down to one bite bars, they are all doing it, Cornflakes just the same.
Brexit is a godsend to one and all, now they can up prices and use that as an excuse....Pure rubbish once again.
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Baz,
We get many refugees as well which we are able to control,
Like the ten maybe that they caught last week not to far from me, jumping out of the lorry, the police took names, that is if they could remember who they were, and where they came from, gave them papers to report to immigration, which of course as we know they will, and then sent them on the road to paradise....Not working at all.
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Nothing to do with the EU. It will always be that way
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Baz. Brexit caused Sterling to fall after the referendum but it was manageable. Even Carney reducing interest rates and providing more QE did not weaken Sterling that much more. Then May made that conference speech making it clear a hard Brexit was the likely outcome. Result the markets trashed Sterling.
Raw materials for choclate makers and every other manufacturing concern have to be bought abroad and paid for mainly in the reserve currency the US Dollar. The result of that is more Sterling is needed hence higher manufacturing costs that get passed on to consumers.
As a manufacturer of consumer products you either raise your prices to them or reduce the amount you sell for the same cost.
One fine day you might realise that everything a country does comes at a cost. The decision to leave the EU has a high price tag for which you and everyone else will soon be picking up. I and every other UK expat have personally already paid our own price through the fall of my invested assets in UK. It will just take every other UK resident a little longer that's all.
Toblerone is but one small example.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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perrypower said
We don't have enough Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Social Care workers, Bankers, or seasonal labours let alone enough people who are prepared to work in the hospitality industry. EU citizens come here for work, they find it. As soon as that is pointed out the cry from UK people is that all they do is reduce wages (apparently they are willing to work for less than we are) and that they are a drag on the economy (which there is no evidence of at all.)
Baz,
We get many refugees as well which we are able to control, but we don't and no amount of Brexiting will stop that issue.
Very good post PP.
Too many people still don't get it.
The EU exit vote was ALL about immigration for MANY people and although we do not want to mix up immigration with racism it is very borderline.
Yet immigartion is NOT the EU's fault and it will not go away post Brexit
The attitude of many towards immigrants is wrong in every sense
They are NOT pinching our jobs, homes, schools, benefits etc. The majority add a lot more to society and the economy than many who are born in UK, scrounge off the system and want to blame anyone for their own failings and weaknesses as human beings.
Sadly immigrants are an easy target and many forget these people are human beings simply trying to have better life for themseves andtheir families. Maybe a few should spend a day walking in their shoes
Quite franlkly many people need to take a long hard look at themselves
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Re Toblerone etc... Just as well given the growing obesity problem! ;)
Re drag on the economy, I thought that was linked to the stats on swift proliferation of existing parttime workers claiming in- work benefits such as housing allowances and tax credits, plus growing migrant young families putting strain on under resourced NHS and educational provision plus the indirect link to lowering of wages due to wage differentials and willingness to take up zero hours contracts which are a drag on consumer spending, and increases in under-employment that has affected the economy in recent times....workers wanting to do more hours but being unable to do so? In many other European countries, such contracts are unknown, heavily regulated or banned ( either deliberately or in practice). The risks from " precarious work" as it is sometimes referred to , as in Germany, are an increasingly unequal society. Cause for concern for both EU and individual Govts?
Bit surprised that Doctors educational intake is restricted given we were told there was a shortage of Doctors? Is this correct? Also drop out rates re computer studies...does this imply that students underestimated the analytical and logical skills required to follow this pursuit?
I wonder are there any aptitude tests done within schools to better identify where natural abilities exist and encourage uptake accordingly, together with directives from government to link to skills shortages both academically and non academic? Not enough joined up thinking perhaps by Govt?
As for trade and tariffs post Brexit, here's a very detailed analysis by Civitas where it identified that their analysis shows if the UK leaves the EU without a trade deal, exporters could face the potential impact of £5.2 billion in tariffs on goods being sold to the EU. However, EU exporters will also face £12.9 billion in tariffs on goods coming to the UK.
http://www.civitas.org.uk/reports_articles/potential-post-brexit-tariff-costs-for-eu-uk-trade/
All food for thought perhaps, albeit some aspects relate to Govt action ;) ?
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Just to bring some of these "enormous" issues into focus, I understood the number of immigrants being discussed was in the order of 3 million in the UK. Thats out of a population of 64 million, which represents less than 5%.
If the UK really is in as much difficulty as some are suggesting, perhaps its the other 95% that have something to do with it? Or do you honestly believe that all the problems can be laid at the feet of the 5%?
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The problems arent all laid at the feet of migrants but that should not prevent analysis of compromising failings in the UK and EU with a view to reform and resolving those failings.
By the way there were 31.81 million in work, and 8.58million of those in part time work up to Aug 2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 08/11/2016.
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If British companies have been crying out for home grown engineers, why can they not fund some of the necssary courses to attract the young into.
Immigfation is quoted at 5% of the population only but makes no mention of the enormous numbers that have been arriving, net, into the UK since Mr Blair basically launched his, let them all in policy, they will vote labour.
Large scale Net immigration has only been a problem for a relatively short time which us the main reason, our housing stock, our schools, our A&E depts, our doctors and nurses who take years to train are all suffering under the strain.
Had government's realised in the late 90s how much impact large scale immigration would cause, perhaps we would not be trying to play catch up now.
PS of course Mr Carneys policy of QE will devalue sterling as there is more of it in circulation, therefore you need more to buy the same asset.
rob, once again, you appear to have your own interpretation on comments.
Not one person has laid the blame on immigrants, the blame lies with the intransigence of the EU bureaucrats who carry on spending 150mill euros per month moving their parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg because that's what the French want
Brexit is nit about immigration, it is about inefficiencies in the way the EU developed.
Feerdom of movement was supposed to allow a minority to work and live abroad if they chose and if needed, it was not about Spanish engineers etc. Seeking work in the UK as the economy was solid and there was no work at home.
As Ads has suggested on numerous occasions, the EUneeds to encourage qualified people to stay at home and pass on their skills rather than have to move away to seek work.
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ads wrote
exporters could face the potential impact of £5.2 billion in tariffs on goods being sold to the EU. However, EU exporters will also face £12.9 billion in tariffs on goods coming to the UK.
That has been said before as a justification for a hard Brexit. However it's misleading and unrealistic because it assumes the same import/export markets will continue as before, unaffected by tariffs of up to 20%.
What will actually happen is what always happens when goods become too expensive. People go elsewhere. In this case Europeans will find new markets cheaper than the UK tariff imposed goods. The UK will need to source elsewhere as well from markets where they have been able to obtain a free trade deal. How long that will take is anyone’s guess.
The result will mean for the UK a widen trade balance, exports down and shortages of raw material or raw materials at higher cost. That will be passed on the customers and consumers. Of course Sterling's devaluation will help counter balance that a little but all the evidence shows tariffs trade means less trade.
This government seems to be under the impression that the rest of the world is going to beat a path to the UK’s door bearing gifts of free trade deals galore without the UK giving any concessions in return. India is an example. No concessions on visa travel for ordinary Indians May said. Not a great way to win friends and influence people. That attitude carries a strong odor of colonialism which will not be lost on the Indians.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/07/uk-visa-policy-india-theresa-may-could-gamble-away-much-needed-goodwill-narendra-modi
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 08/11/2016.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Sheeesh, is it just me or have you noticed as well that there are some posters to this thread that find someone to blame for every ill known to man and it always ends in... there are too many immigrants.
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Of course Perry. And when you point out that immigrants are less than 5%, its not immigrants, its EU intransigence. The same intransigence that stands for freedom.
God damn those bastards for wanting freedom. How dare they!
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Engineers, so what type?
Mechanical
Structural
Electrical
There are another 37 degree gathering engineering courses, one of them being computing, I was brought up within an engineering background, but hardly any of the world renowned engineering companies that I knew still exist. India and China have great engineers who work in engineering companies that are needed, and are located in their own back yards, why should they even consider the UK?
The trade unions killed off most of the UK's industry, where are all these engineering shortages? What we do need is trades people, most so called trades people are actually just good do it youselfers, who drive around in van's with 'No Job Too Small' signage.on them, you pull the handle and take your chance with these guys, no qualifications = no insurance.
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We get many refugees as well which we are able to control, but we don't and no amount of Brexiting will stop that issue.
Too many people still don't get it....Yes I agree and it's the one's who don't live here full time and see it that don't actually get it.
The EU exit vote was ALL about immigration for MANY people and although we do not want to mix up immigration with racism it is very borderline......The EU vote was not, and never was. All about the immigration issues, it was probably about 85% taking back control of our own country from what is quickly turning into a control freak.
Yet immigartion is NOT the EU's fault and it will not go away post Brexit.....It might not go away, it might be better controlled though, which is better then we have now which is next to nothing.
The attitude of many towards immigrants is wrong in every sense....Direct that question to someone who has a house full of Romanians / Africans, just to name a few, living next door to them, everyone thinks if the undesirables moved in next to them they wouldn't mind one little bit, oh really.
They are NOT pinching our jobs, homes, schools, benefits etc. The majority add a lot more to society and the economy than many who are born in UK, scrounge off the system and want to blame anyone for their own failings and weaknesses as human beings......They are not pinching our jobs etc, but if the millions were not here then our government should / could kick our own people into these jobs but as it is they cant because the jobs have gone, as for housing, homes / schools and benefits, well that beggars belief.
Sadly immigrants are an easy target and many forget these people are human beings simply trying to have better life for themseves andtheir families. Maybe a few should spend a day walking in their shoes ....I do walk in their shoes, for one day a week I work with them, talk to them, explain rules and laws to them, I do this for free, but I don't talk with any French / Spanish / Italians / Greeks etc etc, for some reason they don't seem to be in the country enmass...Why not?
Quite franlkly many people need to take a long hard look at themselves....Yes they do.
This is getting out of hand now thanks to the ones who voted to stay. because they honestly believe all us leavers were only concerned with immigration.
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hugh_man
If British companies have been crying out for home grown engineers, why can they not fund some of the necssary courses to attract the young into.
They do via working with univeristies,provide funding for research, bursaries, apprenticeships. You may want to look at STEM
Shame the govt cannot eliminate high uni fees for courses that help fill these gaps / skill shortages. Let's blame this on the EU or the unions or the immigrants or whoever - anyone but good old UK Govt
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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