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I believe the British people will choose the politics of hope over the negativity the brexiteers propaganda illustrates. Hope is a powerful tool. In truth the world is a global village, a global market offering cooperation, integration and tolerance. It will always succeed over isolationism and an inward nationalist based political ideal of going it alone. Attitudes like that belong to the past. The future is going to be different. The young and well educated will see to that.
The European community offers hope, friendship between nations and solidarity between peoples that share a common ideal.
The Brexiteers offer nothing but pulling up the drawbridge, hiding under the duvet and hoping the rest of the world will go away.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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baz soudns a bit playroundy to me reminds me of "its my ball and you can't play with it"
as an example I don't see the UK doing this sort of thing to Scotland so very much doubt it would happen in EU - any govt could call another vote at any time (and waste more money etc.which I am sure Scotland will be doing if they vote differently to the English)
No playgroundy from me...That I can assure you. I have very much respected your views Micky after all its good to stick with what you believe in, but it's my ball business takes the biscuit, it is nothing like that at all and if you were to open your eyes a little and see the real UK as it is now then you might know more.
Cameron has said if the UK comes out their wont ever be another vote, his words, but if you don't like them then thats it.
I said if the UK stay in the EU has got us any way it wants, now a leading politician has said the same.
You keep on about what will happen if we leave, pure assumptions, no substance in any of it...Because you don't know what will happen, you have knocked every one about getting information from the rubbish papers and misinformed media, so now it's your turn to prove to every one here where you get your perfect accurate information from, it has to be somewhere else other then what the millions read and listen to.
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The referendum is on one vote per elector for the whole of the UK electorate. All votes are worth tthe same.
A majority one way or the other decides the matter for the whole of the UK. Saying England will decide is wrong. For instance you might analyse the result and find that England voted 51/49 but Scotland voted 35/65 giving an overall result of 48/52 and say that Scotland decided.
In the referendum all votes really will be worth the same. In a general election Scottish votes are worth more because the constituencies in Scotland are smaller.
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Cameron and Osborne were at the B&Q HQ in Chandlers Ford today in what was a tacky stage managed event, telling us what the consequences were if we left the EU.
Well, if that’s the consequences then I’m happy to leave and the UK can grow and prosper. They were being dishonest with the figures, as explained in an earlier post the 18% fall in house prices is talking about the effect on house price inflation and I’d be happy for the ‘value’ of my house to fall. And with a predicted rise in unemployment would that also be a return of people to Eastern Europe thereby freeing up accommodation, including hospital beds, for people in the UK? Would the price inflation be driven by wage inflation where the going raate for a job would be paid, not the race to the bottom of the minimum wage?
Has anybody considered the effect on a recession in the UK if we stayed in? More people for us taxpayers to pay out benefits to. We all know the Eurozone is in crisis but so many experts predicted doom and gloom if we did not join the Euro, the sme ones saying we must stay in.
Perhaps the most telling assessment of the ‘DIY’ trip was from one of the B&Q employees who were herded into this grandstanding. She later called LBC radio, and you can listen to her call on line on the following link:
http://www.lbc.co.uk/talking-to-osborne-persuaded-me-to-vote-leave-131046
SO there you have it, and immigrant unconvinced that the remain campaigners are living in the real world. Was Maureen Duffy a bigot when she tackled Gordon ‘British jobs for British Workers’ Brown?
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If Brexit happens which I doubt, I shall return to this thread in six months time and say I told you so. I shall enjoy saying to you all that your lack of confidence, trust and cynicism towards your elected leaders landed you in the mess you find yourselves in.
Then truly you will only have yourselves to blame and no one else.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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tteed
that is one spin on it!
no matter what happens the votes will be analysed by the 4 NATIONS of the UK and if the votes are different across the 4 nations you can guarantee the indpedants will use it very much to their advantage and casue more turmoil and force more indepednace votes
Any exiters who disagree with the independants (or deny another independant vote) would be very hypocritical.
a true UK vote should have been 1 vote 1 state not unlike the EU
We are NOT one nation but 4 and a 4 state union is no different to a 28 state union - ask the 48% of Scottish voters who voted to leave the UK
as i have said before IMO an exit from the EU will snowball devolution, break up the UK, cost millions and would be catastrophic for the UK as a union of 4 nations
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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The largest investment fund in the Nordic region CQT has announced it will not any longer invest in Britain. The referendum vote has made the risk of Brexit too uncertain. The fund also said if the vote is to remain they will return.
That is an indication the predictions of economic meltdown after a leave vote are valid. Morgan Stanley have said something similar.
If investment in Britain from abroad goes elsewhere recession is inevitably predictable. Not scaremongering simple economic prudence by sensible fund managers.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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You keep on about what will happen if we leave, pure assumptions, no substance in any of it...Because you don't know what will happen, you have knocked every one about getting information from the rubbish papers and misinformed media, so now it's your turn to prove to every one here where you get your perfect accurate information from, it has to be somewhere else other then what the millions read and listen to.
I asked you the above....Quick in telling me and everyone else that the media is wrong, TV is wrong, Daily Mail is corrupt....So now its up to you Micky.......
Just where do you get your information from to prove your opinions on the reasons to stay are correct?
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On 11th March 2016 Yngve Slyngstad, chief executive of Norway's £590billion state owned investment fund, stated that he would invest even more in the UK in the event of Brexit succeeding.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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MEETING GEORGE PERSUADED ME...TO VOTE FOR BREXIT
A B&Q worker said that meeting George Osborne yesterday had persuaded her to vote in the EU referendum – but for Brexit.
The woman said she told the Chancellor he was not living ‘in the real world’ after listening to his speech warning that leaving the European Union would lead to a ‘DIY recession’.
The employee, named only as Maryann, took a selfie with Mr Osborne before saying she would now vote to leave.
Her comments came after B&Q workers were banned from talking to journalists at the event, sparking comparisons with a ‘totalitarian state’.
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Maryann, who described herself as an immigrant living in Leatherhead, Surrey, said the speeches were ‘stage-managed’ and claimed she had been unable to ask the Prime Minister and Chancellor a question because they had their backs to her.
She even claimed they should not have bothered visiting the firm’s offices, where she said a ‘majority’ back Brexit.
She said Mr Osborne said she ‘shouldn’t believe anything the Leave campaign says’. But Maryann added: ‘What they have done is tip me over to the Leave side.’
Last night B&Q said Maryann had spoken out in a personal capacity, not as an employee
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a couple of questions for the exiters in the event of an exit
will EU citizens be allowed to work and reside in UK?
will UK citizens be allowed to work and reside in EU?
will EU citizens who currently work and reside in UK lose in work benefits?
will any EU citizens currently working in UK be asked to leave?
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd, yes,yes,no,no !!! This is the problem with the inners who think all Brexit voters want to shut up borders and kick out all foreigners !! Which is ludicrous, all the Brexit voters I know want to leave so as they can control our own laws and not be told by the EU what we can or cannot do !! They also want a tighter control of who enters Britain from now, no different to places like Australia and America !!! No Brexit voter wants every foreigner to leave !!! We have had successive governments too weak to stand upto the EU, if the EU is equal how come if I move to Spain I need to have private health insurance, proof of earnings and would not recieve child benefit or any benefit if I lost my job ?? A Spanish person coming to the uk, does not need private health insurance, and they get child benefits and more... This is why I am thinking of voting out, the scaremongering from Cameron and Osborne is so far fetched it also sways me to voting out.
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sox
you may be right but you also might be worng
where are these policies clearly written down in some form of manifesto, objective, commitment, promsie, agreement?
are you also sure that EU countries wil happily continue under what an exited UK wants?
you also contradict yourself - tighter control of who enters Britain that must include EU yet exiters do not want to close up borders
also people coming from USA / Australia etc to UK - current UK immigartion rules have nothing to do with EU and are fully controlled and applied by UK now!
so will EU citizens be subject to the same entry requirments for other countries such as you mention USA. Australia etc. add a few more none EU/EEA countries Russia, South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Turkey, New Zealand, Brazil, Columbia, Mexico, Argentina, etc
I would have no probem with EU creating laws and "telling us what to do" no different to a UK govt telling us what to do
current and past UK Govts have not done a very good job in my lifetime and they keep telling us what we can and can't do - IMO a change is needed
look back pre 1973, go back as far as you wish, but joe public often had to put their life on the line literally to fight for decent safe basic human rights against UK govts (working conditions, votes for women, child labour, slavoury, corruption, racism, sexism, corporal punsihment, education for all etc etc)
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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@sox
if the EU is equal how come if I move to Spain I need to have private health insurance, proof of earnings and would not recieve child benefit or any benefit if I lost my job ?
Because the UK does not enforce the regulations laid down by the EU. Not the EU fault that UK provides free health care to all, not the UK fault that it provides benefits to all (which it won't when the new opt outs come into force). If you have been working in Spain and paying into the system then you will receive child benefit (until the child is 3) and you will receive unemployment benefits. The same for all the Spanish as well as EU citizens.
Because UK does not have a register of EU citizens, does not require proof of income, does not require proof you can support yourself during your stay nor will be a drain on the social security and welfare system is the fault of the UK, not the EU. Spain treats you in exactly the same way as they treat Spanish citizens. Blaming the EU for something that is entirely in the hands of the UK seems to be the norm for the outsiders.
If the UK does leave the EU, who will they have to blame in the future?
This message was last edited by mariedav on 24/05/2016.
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Mariedav, I appreciate what you are saying, and yes successive governments here let the EU bully them !!
Therefore if I vote Brexit the UK government won't need to bow down to the EU !! Hopefully then whoever is in power will enforce our laws !!
A little bit off topic.....but the new Queen Elizabeth Railway line being built across London, Is being built to German measurements and has too have Trains being built in Germany... At the EU's insistence, why did not Cameron and his cronies say No !! It's a line being built in London and we will build it as a British line and will have British Trains running on it not German . If we were not in the EU we could have built it as our laws state,not as some Foreigner sitting at a desk in a different country tells us ???
Tadd, tighter control of our borders does not mean closing them?? Where have I contradicted myself or do you simply not understand my point in question ??
This message was last edited by sox on 24/05/2016.
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sox
the eu is trying and funding to standardise rail gauges acorss the eu to assist in transportation and trains crossing borders - it makes sense and is a good thing!
the fact that trains are being made in germany so what if they are better quality, cheaper etc. many other modes of transport are built outside of UK for UK use ships, cars buses, tractors etc etc etc and the rail link is being bankrolled by China
the UK does not really have an large manufaturing industry (and most of what it does have is foreign owned!) which is the fault of the UK govt, UK unions and maybe global economies but NOT the EU
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Tadd, you really do have blinkered vision and a lack of understanding to my comments !!!!
I would like a level playing field for British companys not a backhanded EU beaurocrat telling us what to do, if you understood my comment I was blaming successive British Governments not the EU, but if we do not have a Prime Minister who will stand up to the EU in the interest of Britain, then maybe the only way not to be bullied is to Brexit !!
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a couple of questions for the exiters in the event of an exit
will EU citizens be allowed to work and reside in UK?....Yes of course they will, this government wont suddenly change and say 'Right all out' as it they still believe that everyone who comes in is paying it's way and putting tax money into the coffers.
will UK citizens be allowed to work and reside in EU?....They did before why not after, maybe a shade more paperwork like some sort of visa, documents etc, doubt that even.
will EU citizens who currently work and reside in UK lose in work benefits?....No because our governments are to soft on everyone, unless of course you fought for your country and lost a leg or two, then you will be in trouble, anyway they really do believe that the benefits are not what they come here for.
will any EU citizens currently working in UK be asked to leave?....Never in a million years.
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sox
so what is the differeece between the UK govt backhanded UK beaurocrat making laws for Scotland, Cumbria , Belfast, Tenby, Durham, Cornwall, Keswick etc to the backhanded EU beaurocrat making laws for a bigger union? Or deciding on Scotish, welsh, NIrish, scouse, cockney, brummie businesses
who stand up to the UK PM for the villages, towns, cities, counties, countiores of the UK - oops MPS, copuncillors, the people etc, and in EU it would be PM's, MEP's etc.
the principle is the same just a bit bigger - the virtues of a 4 state union should be the same for a 28 state union we just need soem work and the UK can't have it all its own way. You will never satifys the hypocrits, racits, bigots and selfish Im alright Jacks
Baz
Where is tehfactual evidence to support your answers?
So in yoiur view what will change and are you assuming all EU states will be happy with it? surley they will have a say on no EU (UK citizens) trying to wok in their EU state
again the UK can't have their cake and eat it they get enough as it stands now
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“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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