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Really, what is the point of leaving then? What a silly, silly man.
This comment displays very well who the silly silly one is. Transfering EU directives into UK law is the pre-requisite for changing them.
It is now apparently one of the first things the govenment intends to do.
And also, this simple route to aid leaving has been mentioned on this board several times in the past.
Silly boy, pay attention.
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potblack - Where a modification proposed by the European Parliament does not have the effect of increasing the total amount of expenditure of an institution, owing in particulare to the fact that the increase in expenditure which it would involve would be expressly compensated by one or more proposed modifications correspondingly reducing expenditure, the Council may, acting by a qualified majority, reject the proposed modification. In the absence of a decision to reject it, the proposed modification shall stand as accepted.
.................. thats all right then I'm struggling to see the relevance along with most of your cut and paste posts..
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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What a majority of people actually wanted was some controls on EU immigration.
It's getting more like the 'Christmas Radio Times' on here...... FULL OF REPEATS.
As Briando says Micky, you are repeating yourself, but never mind that I will give you a repeat of the answer.
The question in the referendum was about leaving or staying in the EU. Nothing to do with EU immigration.
The majority of people voted to leave the EU, that is what they voted for and, with any luck, that is what they will get.
Many people on both sides of the argument want to reduce all immigration into the UK. We are a small overcrowded nation. If there is any reflection of this in the vote it is because we have lost the freedom to decide for ourselves, in this and many other things, and want it back .
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I note that the PM of NZ is ready to sign a free trade agreement us as soon as we are free to do so.
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tteedd - Many people on both sides of the argument want to reduce all immigration into the UK. We are a small overcrowded nation. If there is any reflection of this in the vote it is because we have lost the freedom to decide for ourselves, in this and many other things, and want it back
Along with you and at the risk of repeating myself again...............
If you believe leaving the EU will make one jot of difference to UK migration you are living in la la land. Global migration is a human and evolutionary instinct for a better life. It’s been going on since Adam was a lad. It will continue until the planet fades from the sun.
War, poverty and disease will see to that. In any case Britain’s economy and public services depend on it.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 13/01/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Fair comment Mickey, movement of people is part of our history and our future but there are times that immigration needs to be controlled NOT stopped.
Are you able to explain why net immigration to U.K. Last year was over 300,000 but net emigration in Spain last year was 90,000.
Is it surprising that the EU wants to keep freedom of movement, the UK has created jobs and better economic growth toga the EU.
Allow 28 countries free movement and workers will seek work in the most likely places, sensible but NOT sustainable.
As Ads has suggested, the EU needs to consider how growth and therefore jobs can be created in the newly entered countries rather than just allowing their workers to move to the UK.
The EU has subsidised many "poorer" countries for 30 years now but it has given them all just a short term boost in infrastructure improvements and boosted their standard of living BUT has not created sustainable growth and jobs.
Some countries such as Spain have received a great boost to their living standards over 30 years but many of the subsidies have been wasted or used unwisely but the local and central government and now they will be struggling as the subsidies are directed elsewhere.
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Hugh I do agree to a point that the level of economic migration seen in the UK in recent years is not sustainable. As the UK economy naturally wanes and the Eurozone gathers pace, migration would be limited naturally. It is not part of the human condition to want to leave family, friends and your own nation state to work elsewhere in Europe if economic opportunity exits at home. The Eurozone is already showing strong signs of recovery especially in Spain. Capitalist economies go through peaks and troughs. Britain attracted migratory labour because Europe was struggling more economically since the recession
Brexit will change everything for Britain but mildly impact the economies of the rest of Europe. Britain may well in the future find itself with such severe skill shortages they will be pleading Europeans to return.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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If you believe leaving the EU will make one jot of difference to UK migration you are living in la la land. Global migration is a human and evolutionary instinct for a better life. It’s been going on since Adam was a lad. It will continue until the planet fades from the sun.
War, poverty and disease will see to that. In any case Britain’s economy and public services depend on it.
Your wrong again Micky, leaving the EU should make a difference to immigration because we should be able to control it, have a say about who comes in, stop people from coming in who should not be here. I am not muddling up the EU immigrants with the rabble who shouldn't be here either.
La La Land is when people cannot see that thousands of so called immigrants come here for a better life, they don't, they are coming here for our easy benefits, they know full well we are a soft touch, in effect they are raping the country with our permission.
War, poverty and disease is rubbish, war to control is only any good if millions are killed, that wont happen again, disease will only kill millions if left unchecked, the world is doing its best to control disease.
Your last point Britain's economy depends on it is also wrong, how does the economy benefit when so many come here, work, collect millions of Un-taxed money and send it back home, how does it benefit Britain when millions who come here don't and won't work because they know they will get free money, free housing, etc etc, not happening I hear you say, come one day a week with me when I work with many of them, listen to why many came here, understand just exactly the truth as to what they saying and are doing, then speak knowledgeable about how we need them.
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If you believe leaving the EU will make one jot of difference to UK migration you are living in la la land.
Micky
I made no comment about the difference to migration leaving the EU would make. What we want is the right to make our own rules.
However,
Making a difference is a matter of political will power. The last administration talked the talk but did not walk the walk.
In or out of the EU, La la land is believing we can continue to absorb immigrants at the present rate.
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One of the most senior Dutch government ministers has said a fundamental EU principle, freedom of movement, needs to be radically reformed.
Mr Asscher argued the Brexit talks were a chance to look again at the policy.
Reform, he told the BBC, would mean "less immigration" across the EU if undercutting wages was banned.
The stark attack on the way freedom of movement operates could be helpful to Theresa May as Britain looks to gain privileged access to the single market at the same time as controlling EU immigration once the UK has left the EU.
Mr Asscher is the leader of the Dutch Labour Party, which is in a coalition government with the People's Party for Freedom, led by the Netherlands' prime minister, Mark Rutte - who is seen as an ally of the UK.
Although Mr Asscher made it clear that he supported the principle of free movement, he said the rule had been used as a "business model" for lowering wages.
"In essence [what] we have seen happening [is] that free movement has become synonymous with a race to the bottom, with undercutting of wages, with unfair competition in the labour market and that has to do with the rules Europe has produced itself," said Mr Asscher, who is also the Dutch employment minister.
"It is not the principle, it is the rule that has become such a big issue. It means that here in the Netherlands, like in other countries, on the scaffolding [site] you can see a Romanian or Portuguese painter doing the exact same work as a Dutch painter right next to him that is allowed to earn two, three, four hundred euros less than the Dutch worker.
"That means, of course, that the Dutch painter is out of work, out of a job," Mr Asscher said.
"It means the smaller company that cannot afford to hire internationally is out of work.
"It means the support for the principle - which in essence is good - is eroding.
"It has to change if we want to preserve the principle, if we want to preserve the support for the European Union.
"The problem is that it has become a business model, a business model for lowering wages.
"I think there would be less migration if the principle of equal pay for equal work had been honoured."
Whether free movement of workers has actually led to lower wages and fewer jobs - a key part of the referendum debate in the UK - is controversial and has been disputed.
The Dutch government is preparing for elections in March where immigration is one of the key issues.
Geert Wilders' far-right Freedom Party is running on a tough anti-immigration ticket and has called for a referendum on whether the Netherlands should leave the EU.
It has been gaining support and could be the largest party after the election.
Mr Asscher's move on freedom of movement is seen by some as an effort to shore up support for the Labour Party.
The deputy prime minister said that although the Netherlands was a natural ally of the UK, the EU would negotiate as a bloc and that Britain could not "have its cake and eat it", cherry picking which parts of the EU rule book it wanted to abide by in return for special access to the economically important single market.
"I think what is important with what both Angela Merkel [the German Chancellor] and my Prime Minister have said [is] that you can't just say 'I want this to happen' and have everybody else say yes.
"You need to make sure the change is to the benefit to all members.
"Not just because you want something done, you only want the dessert and not the other things.
"It would however be a mistake, a serious political mistake, if we don't use the Brexit momentum to look at what is wrong with the current European Union. We need it to change.
"It would be my hope, because we are so close to the UK, that there is a good deal between the EU and the UK.
"We have always been allies, and we are very important trading partners.
"We should not go out there to punish the Brits, we want them to prosper with us.
"However, a negotiation is a negotiation."
This message was last edited by ads on 14/01/2017.
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Baz-Your wrong again Micky, leaving the EU should make a difference to immigration because we should be able to control it, have a say about who comes in, stop people from coming in who should not be here.
There is a police service but crime continues. How do you suppose the UK can control its borders to prevent immigration effectively?
Practically speaking It would need a permanently established massive border force at every point of entry. Every vehicle and every passport checked at the ports and airports. Can you imagine the delays and chaos that would produce?
If people need a better life and the UK offers it, they are going to come to the country regardless. In addition to a huge border force, employers will have to be controlled and monitored by another group of law enforcers to make sure they don’t employ people without papers. Identity cards will need to be introduced in Britain, the letting of property will need controls….. the list goes on.
You cannot implement a policy without the means to police it. If that’s done it just won’t work.
According to the right wing pressure group Migration Watch there are currently 1.1 million illegal immigrants in the UK today. People the country could not prevent entering the country. When free movement of people ends that figure will double at least.
It’s nonsense to suggest EU migrants will stop coming to the UK overnight when free movement ends. Some will I agree that but most will go where they can find a better life regardless.
How many British people live in Spain illegally? I suggest a large portion of the expat population. Will that change when free movement ends?
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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How many British people live in Spain illegally? I suggest a large portion of the expat population. Will that change when free movement ends?
How do Brits live illegally in Spain?
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Micky
Most immigrants come here because they are allowed to and it is legal, if we take back control of our borders then they would not be allowed and it would not be legal, unless we have a requirement for their skills.
Surely you are not saying that all these legal immigrants are now going to change their ways and become criminals.
Just remember that we have more control over immigants from outside the EU and intake from inside and outside the EU is almost 50/50. This would indicate that we can have controls in place that would stem the flow.
Let's not make of this anything that it isn't, controlled immigration is the way forward, that way we can adapt our infastructure to cope with numbers that we are to some extent in control of.
It's like filling a bath, if you are in control of the taps you can have the water as hot or as cold as you like and fill the bath with as much water as you like. If someone else fills the bath for you, then you may end up with too much or too little water, it also may be too hot or too cold.
It's commonsense.
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Well Micky lets go down this route when we leave, firstly we let it be known world wide that the UK will no longer give out any benefits of any kind to people coming into the country, regardless of where they come from, let it be known that if you did get here and commit any type of offence, just one will do, your out, then if a legally registered person is covering up for them they get any benefits stopped, forget the fact that in many cases it can be hard to find out where said person came from, interpreters can do wonders with their language skills on finding peoples origins. I have worked with them overseas.
Letting it known that we have suddenly become one of the hardest countries to get into, and stay, will get around quicker then the flue.
Migration Watch has its head up where the sun don't shine, 1.1 million, try nearly 2.5 or more, thats the trouble with these people, like MP's, if they really told the whole truth we would be up in arms.
If people need a better life and the UK offers it, they are going to come to the country regardless.
Your above comment hit the nail on the head...Don't give it and offer it.
Sounds hard, sounds disgusting, sounds racist, not if you consider the people who built this great country are getting second rate service thanks to the many who deserve nothing yet get it all.
Of course it would be hard to implement, nearly impossible perhaps, but whats the alternative?
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but whats the alternative?
Decency. Compassion. Fair play.
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It would be far easier to reform thr UK's totally ludicrous benefits regime than it would be to step up border controls, if the benefits aren't available why bother coming here? And similar also goes for our own serial benefits claimants, why their brass faced demands are tolerated, god only knows. This is actually all about the Common Trading Market lie, anyone who didn't/couldn't vote for our entry into this was not lied to, however there are a hell of a lot who were, hence the referendum result. I don't blame any EU citizen for taking advantage of money for nothing, but remind forum members that we shower third world immigrants with similar benefits, who's fault is this?
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The EU is not going to give up on free movement after Brexit. That means in the entire European area people with skills the UK needs are free to roam, work and live. It is unrealistic to believe they are going to ignore the carrots UK companies will offer to attract talent. Even unskilled workers will still continue to work in the fields of Lincolnshire because the economic motive will over rule any other consideration. I simply don't believe benefits are the principal attraction of migrants. Research has been done many times which dispells that myth.
I accept controlled free movement is the likely political outcome. However the word 'controlled' can mean different things to different people. There will always be ways around it. Even with free movement many people work on the black in Europe including thousands of Brits in Spain.
My point about labouring this issue is. If it was the fundamental reason a majority voted for Brexit the conclusion could be seen as an avoidable error in which something good is eliminated when trying to get rid of something wrongly perceived as bad.
I think that sums up Brexit perfectly.
This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 14/01/2017.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I wonder what EU Country will be next to leave the union .
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UK apparently, although we have not left yet and will not anytime soon
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Perrypower1 the UK is well on it's way to leaving haven't you heard of the Brexit,so i wonder what EU Country will be next to leave the so called Union.
This message was last edited by windtalker on 14/01/2017.
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