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norm de plume,
I fully understand your views on this subject, however you are part of a very small minority. Benefits migrants from what were Soviet satelite states, flooding in to claim what the EU state are their rights, irrespective of whether the claimants are claiming for imaginary children or not really takes the biscuit.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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EXAGERATIONS?
1. There are 'negative economic consequences' before any general election, This is not a general election (FACT)
so we would expect the same in the lead up to the 'in/out' vote. Except it is a bigger issue and we don't know who, what, or when in terms of policy post vote (FACT). Unless you are talking about the manidfesto that John Redwood (Ex Merchant/Investment Banker) is proposing. (FACT)
If the vote is 'out' then for sure there will be a period of uncertainty that will affect the stock markets. (FACT) Yes there will be and they could be very big and could last for between 5 and 35 years. (FACT)
This will not 'kill the finanancial market' EXAGERATION No 1. It will kill the fianncial markets in London if the EU decide to tax all financial transactions done in or out of London. (FACT)
2. Unless I am totally on another planet altogether there will still be access to the 'single market', based on the Norway model which is all we have to go on, the cost of access to the single market will be payments to the EU of £10.8 billion per year by the UK. Then there is duty to pay on top of that like 13% on fish products (like Scottish Smoked Salmon.) (FACT). And we don't get a say (FACT).
so to say European companies that relocated to the UK are hardly likely to remain in the country without access to the single market. is EXAGERATION No 2. BMW has already made its vision clear. (FACT)
3. The years to!lowing a brexit vote will push the UK into recession and economic decline, This is not FACT but a supposition made by those who wish to scare people into 'yes' vote. EXAGERATION No 3. I agree with you, we don't have a clue what would happen. But it could happen and that is a FACT.
4. That is not scaremongering its the prediction of most experts in the financial sector. Voters can of course ignore such people but to what end I ask myself?
How many is 'most experts' and also as you say it is a prediction not FACT...EXAGERATION No 4. I would rather put my stock into the prediction of EXPERTS rather than Social Media clowns. That is a FACT
5. EXAGERATION does not help anyone and certainly does not give the 'in voters' a shred of credibility. Each side will be stating their case with increased vigor as we approach the date for the vote. There has been and will be exageration, misinformation and just plain nonsense by both side until then.
Undecided voters will need to invest the time to understand the issue. Nobody is going to insulate them from the views of others. They are all entitled to make up their own minds. BUT. The 'stay in the EU' voters are both entitled and obliged to fight their corner. We don't want ot see our country wrecked.
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That's an interesting point Norm de Plume and begs the question how the EU plan to "control" abuse of citizens property rights within its existing members states.
Its interesting that under the current treaty arrangements the EU appear to have no powers to protect against abuse of property rights across member states, and are at the mercy of each member states adherence to the rule of law with due regard for legal certainty, judicial independence without interference from litigants, the State, the media or powerful individuals or entities, such as large companies (and Banks), legal moral authority and timely justice... and many know from first hand experience how vulnerable they are with the current treaty arrangements and the failure of the EU to adequately protect its citizens in this regard.
This message was last edited by ads on 23/03/2016.
This message was last edited by ads on 23/03/2016.
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My, My, My perrypower1
You have just taken almost everything in my previous reply (albeit that it was a reply to Mickyfinn and not you) and stated FACT against your replies, I note that most of your replies start with could and then state FACT. Forgive me but I am still laughing as I write this, so I will keep it short.
Could = subjective
FACT = objective
The 2 do not go together.
This message was last edited by BigAl2015 on 23/03/2016.
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You must have trouble with your arithmatic BigAl. 1 Could. 12 Facts. So I guess that means 1>12 in your mind. Sorry can't take you seriously now.
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Perrypower1
I have no wish to be taken seriously and am astounded that you ever did, as I said in a previous reply 'I am only here to burst the bubble of the scaremongers, those peddling untruth's, exagerator's etc.
I don't advise anyone to vote either 'in' or 'out' as I have not yet made my mind up, there may be some compelling evidence that comes to light before the vote that persuades me that 'in' is the right decision.
Nothing wrong with my arithmetic as I never stated that there was an even amount of 'could's and 'facts', however there is something wrong with your arithmetic as there are are 2 'could's'... you do the maths, then again don't let the truth get in the way of you posting more untruth's
As for the 12 'Facts', there are only 12 there because you decided to put them there without validating them, just because you wrote 'fact' does not make it 'fact'.
To make my point about making things 'fact that are not 'fact', see below my quote to which you replied with an infered 'fact'.
2. Unless I am totally on another planet altogether there will still be access to the 'single market' so to say European companies that relocated to the UK are hardly likely to remain in the country without access to the single market. is EXAGERATION No 2. BMW has already made its vision clear. (FACT).......
I think you will find as my most other companies that they are trying to influence their workforce to vote 'in' as you can see from the article below...BMW has said that the comanies base 'could' be affected, now if BMW are so worried about a 'Brexit' why have they not stated that if there is a 'in' vote then the company base will have to move.... unless 'dare I say it' this is sacremongering?
UK car workers at Rolls-Royce and Mini have had an email from German parent firm BMW, highlighting what it sees as the risks of a vote to leave the EU.
While stressing the decision is ultimately a matter for the British public, BMW highlights the "significant benefit" the company derives from the free movement of people within the EU.
Without that, it says, the employment base of the company could be affected.
This message was last edited by BigAl2015 on 24/03/2016.
This message was last edited by BigAl2015 on 24/03/2016.
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If anyones still undecided watch this video
http://www.losttotheeu.org/LosttotheEU.html
Love Hugh xx
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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** EDITED - Against forum rules - abusive**
This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 3/24/2016 3:10:00 PM.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Although I didn't read the post that has been edited
Its good to see it being deleted. Its only a forum and we should respect other peoples opinions whether we agree with them or not...
Peace to all.
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' So it is totally untrue that the UK will be better able to protect it's borders if it leaves the EU'
Why?
I have not seen the orginal comment but it is clear that the UK would be much better able to protect our borders if we left the EU.
Quite simply we would not have to obey the EU's rule on mobility of EU citizens and we would be free to ignor the European court of Human rights. There have been many cases where the UK has wished to expel undesirables but has been unable to do so. The most high profile was that of Abu Hamza, the hook hand hate preacher. Our treaties with the EU stop us from repealing our membership of the European court of human rights as the government wished to do.
Roll on the day when we are free to control our borders as we wish.
At the moment any citizen of the EU can come to the UK by right even if the intelligence services know he/or she has had terrorist links or training.
The pro EU scare lobby would have us beleive that the EU would no longer wish to share intelligence with us. This is nonsensense, no country would wish to damage it's ability to track terrorists, and also because we are much better at intelligence than most EU countries and they need our input.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 24/03/2016.
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'Even the out campaigners concede that there would be negative consequences'
Rubbish
Now you really are clutching at straws.
You may find an out campainer who says that to regain our democracy we should come out whatever the consequences, but that is entirely different.
Out campaigners say that the economic consequences would be good because:
We would no longer be paying vast sums to the EU.
We could free ouselves from pettifogging rules that hold back industry and trade.
Our raw materials and food would be cheaper because we would be free to trade with the rest of the world.
We would be able to maintain our economic surge and not be held back by the EU (the growth rate of the EU is much lower than that of the UK).
And yes we would be better able to protect our borders (given political will).
The worst thing anyone can say is that there may be instability at the change, but even instabilty is not inherently bad. Nimble traders and industrialists thrive on it.
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'Retirees need to vote to stay in the EU'
You should vote for the good of your country.
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Well I agree with Big tedd we are much better then the EUers look at our Mi5 Mi6 and good old Scottie yard
They have poirot and clouseau exactly the guy was sitting in his house for 4 months after he blew up Paris
We have Bond James Bond lovely he is ,so lets get outta Europe shut the boarders ISIS is expanding through Turkey,Greece getting ever closer lets quash them for the sake of the UK and our future generations.
Love Hugh
ps everyone on here knows I live the high life in Camposol but I am still British always will be I vote for Britain not myself
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/islamic-state-group-400-fighters-europe_uk_56f2fbb2e4b08af01bea0e00?icid=maing-grid7%7Cukt2%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D442941
This message was last edited by hughjardon on 24/03/2016.
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Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK
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Hugh,
If you learned how to put links in correctly people wouldn't have to copy and paste your dubious links into Google.
If you do your copy (like you have done) and then highlight the words and click on the chain link above (next to the smilies button) and then insert your copy there it will give an immediate link.
I'm sure all the boarders (especially those at Eton and other private schools) would be most grateful.
Just Like This
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@tteedd
Will you please stop telling us what we have to do? Most of us are old and ugly enough to be able to make our own decisions. Calling those who have concerns about leaving names like "the pro EU scare lobby" does your cause no good at all and puts quite a few people off. You also make assertions without backing them up as if they were the God's Own Truth. How would leaving the EU, for example, help us ignore the ECHR? It's nothing to do with the EU and we would have to withdraw from that as well along with repealing the UK Human Rights Act which gives the non-EU ECHR precedence.
As for the "scare" tactics I'm sure you don't think the being able to protect our borders and leaving the EU will stop all the immigrants is not a scare tactic. Or do you?
Now, I'm sure we all welcome a good debate with opposing views (which is what a debate is all about) but please use a little less shouty outy rhetoric and clarify your points.
I haven't replied on this thread for some time because I'm getting bored with it and every other site I have looked at turns into the same thing. Now that the out lot are starting to use the Brussels bombings to push home their reason to leave is rather disgraceful and totally ignores the fact that every incident has been perpetrated by home-grown disaffected terrorists. London, Paris and now Brussels all carried out by people born in the country.
And that's me off my high horse again and fading into the background. New Zealand here I come (I can go there now with a clear conscience since they've just paid twelve million quid on a referendum to keep the original flag with the good old Union Flag in the corner - a little bit of sense in a crazy world).
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Why is it folk resident in the UK from 70 countries and Protectorates around the world get to vote in the EU referendum, yet my Italian wife who is gainfully employed as a Consultant in the NHS does not?
Malta and Cyprus get a vote, as they are in the Commonwealth, although also members of the EU. Why? How does Ireland get to vote under a special arrangement yet someone from Italy does not.
Rossetti
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Basically the reason is historical ties with the UK. There is also an EU treaty which allows for EU nationals of other states but resident in another EU member state to vote in European and local elections but not national ones.
I am a UK national but because I have lived outside the UK for more than 15 years I have become disqualified.
There is currently a case going through the UK high court trying to remedy that fact. It could even delay the referendum vote.
If Britain leaves the UK all expats will likely lose their vote in local and European elections.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Micky, what's the deal with Ireland dont think it was ever a member of the Commonwealth and is a member of the EU in it's own right?
As you point out re your situation, strange that some others outside the UK, but those that live and work in the UK and could be directly effected dont have a say!
Rossetti
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Ireland used to be an integral part of the UK until independence in 1921. It's citizens were given reciprocol residency and employment rights in the UK.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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The Republic of Ireland Act 1948 made it a sovereign state, it became a member of the United Nations in 1955 and joined the EEC in 1973, geographically it is part of The British Isles but is totally independent of the UK.
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I'm Spartacus, well why not?
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