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What we have at the moment is massive political spin and unjustified optimism because the economic figures have not yet headed south. Actually nothing whatever has happened so why would they? It's business as usual but panic behind the confidence charade as the politicians and civil servants work out what the heck to do next.
Mrs May is serenely floating across the water whilst paddling furiously underneath and speaking without saying anything meaningful. I get the impression nobody in government has the first idea what to do next. David Davis performance in the House of Commons yesterday just about made that very clear. The bland leading the bland.
The truth is nobody expected Brexit and if they were honest just for once, nobody except a few hardline crusty old Tories actually wanted it. They used the referendum campaign to further their own careers and didn’t that work well folks. The public swallowed it hook line and sinker.
Well now the escape route and compromises need to be found for the UK to survive what they accomplished whilst keeping their own jobs and staying in power. Houdini would be proud.
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Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Mickfinn it was the population of the UK that voted for Brexit knot the political establishment ,the population of the the UK voted out by a Democratic majority for your sake stop harpingon on accept it live with it ,if it had been the other way round l would have accepted it that is what was fought for by our fore fathers its the Democratic way ,I also believe that all the so called political establishment that where making it clear that thaydid knot agree to the out come of the democratic vote should stand down as MPs.
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Yes I fully understand that and I have said before I accept the result.
However there are ways of influencing the voting population. Appealing to some basic instincts or prejudices not necessarilybecause the people doing it actually believe them but for their own personal advancement. That was the point I was making. However that's modern politics.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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David Davis
Did just what you would expect. Reiterate that we voted to leave the EU and that a halfway house, Brexit lite or a new referendum was not on the cards.
There is no way he was going to reveal his negociating hand before the talks with the EU. Complaining because he has not done so is ridiculous.
He is the one person who really does know what he is doing and it was a wise move on the behalf or Mrs May to give him the job. (we should all hope fervently that she is right).
Economic indicators
We should all be glad that the economic indicators are good and we are not going down the plug hole as project fear would have had us believe. I can't believe that you are carping about them.
Expectations
I expected the nation to vote out provided that the campaign was not as loaded in favour of the EEC/EU as it had been in 75. The non metropolitan south clearly wanted out. And credit should go to UKIP for helping convert the north.
I was worried that project fear was winning with the totally unfair amount of government resources being brought to bear but I think they overcooked it. There were also a lot of grass root labour supporters who knew that their leader's heart was not where his mouth was.
UK
I'm rooting for the UK. We can do just fine if we ignor the whingers.
This message was last edited by tteedd on 06/09/2016.
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Why is opposing yours and others arguments always described as whinging? Almost half the vote was to remain, 28% abstained by not voting at all. I’m not even making any issue about the vote result here.
My post was about how it appears to me the government have no real idea how to move forward. A clear plan for the future is what I and many others want to see. Some actual indication what the British government intends to do. You would have thought given the rhetoric during the referendum the outer political leadership would have some clue how to proceed. Given they managed to convince so many to follow them.
Follow us folks to vote to leave the EU. When they actually did now it’s; ‘ erm… well we will decide that nest year. Or maybe the following one. Truth is they haven’t a clue how to move forward.
They have all achieved something they were unprepared for, unplanned for and never expected. It's business as usual for the UK in Europe and I suspect it will remain like that with as few concessions on the fringes of the vote expectaions as they can politically get away with.. Its called Realpolitk..
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Well, the country voted to leave the EU. Nothing more and nothing less. The government has identified the main reason as a desire to control immigration. That is what they intend to do. God only knows how, the politicians clearly don't know.
I have no intention of betting against the house (The UK). It certainly won't be in my interest or anyone's to have the dire consequences that were put forward as being the result of Brexit come true. But. The pie in the sky optimism being presented is ringing pretty hollow at this juncture and we really need to figure out how to fix that.
I would feel more optimistic if a few companies/countries jumped up and said this is great news, we can't wait to do business with you or put a load of investment into the UK. Australia excepted, we are just starting to hear the feelings of business and other countires on our decision and what it will take to keep them here. I don't need to list the countries/companies that are already saying this is what we will need to stay. Business will debate anything but business. If they don't like it they move elsewhere were it suits them better. I do not believe that the EU is going to give us a special deal where we get everything we had, but pay nothing and don't have to accept free movement of people. So exactly what should we be prepared to settle with on immigration?
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the government have no real idea how to move forward. A clear plan for the future is what I and many others want to see.
Sounds like another whinge to me.
What you mean is that you do not know what the governments plans are. But if they announce their strategy to all and sundry then they bugger their chances in the negociations.
It looks to me like:
Sept - January get ducks in a row and organise team.
Jan - Feb activate article 50
You are right insofar that it was a disgusting lack of planning on behalf of Cameron. He should have had a team working on it as soon as parliament authorised the referendum. But I guess, if he had, people would have said he had no confidence in the result he was campaigning for.
My guess is that there is a slight tension in the background. The three Brexiteers wanting to ditch the single market and go for a free trade agreement (manufactured goods and services) but May would go for single market lite with Eu concessions on border controls and UK concessions in other areas.
But whatever they are not going to reveal thier hand to you and I (and the EU).
This message was last edited by tteedd on 06/09/2016.
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It's no wonder the government has little idea how to move forwards, how could they have practiced for something that might never have happened, they could hardly practice for this, sure at best they will have had some sort of plan in the event of a maybe, also who thought we would actually leave, even if they voted out, and what is it 10/12 weeks since, even the leavers knew that nothing would happen for months, maybe a year or two, but the important thing is we are out...End of.
Immigration was, and still is on the lips of the leavers, and the remainers, although most of them won't admit it, but what has happened with immigration cannot be fixed overnight, Mrs May has come up with a plan now, if she can enforce it and gets good backing, just give her a chance, after all she can hardly fail, the bunch before her didn't exactly come up with any better solutions either.
The biggest bunch of moaning minnies are the one's on here that keep coming up with reason after reason as to what will happen, soon, tomorrow, next year, as if they really do know.
These minnies don't want the UK to succeed outside the EU, some are only happy when its doom and gloom.
Behind every black cloud is another one just waiting to come out.
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Baz1946 what a good post.keep it up and enjoy life.
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I have every possible reason for wanting the UK to suceed. I have business interests and investments in the country. One of the reasons I'm mortified that the UK is leaving the most successful free trade block on the planet.
What is the alternative. Write what a wonderful job this government are doing? Everything is clear now and we can discard uncertainty. The clear sunny economic uplands awaits for UK investors, we are so fortunate to have such a forward looking intelligent leadership who know exactly what they are doing.
I dont think so. .
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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I have every possible reason for wanting the UK to suceed. I have business interests and investments in the country. One of the reasons I'm mortified that the UK is leaving the most successful free trade block on the planet.
What is the alternative. Write what a wonderful job this government are doing? Everything is clear now and we can discard uncertainty. The clear sunny economic uplands awaits for UK investors, we are so fortunate to have such a forward looking intelligent leadership who know exactly what they are doing.
I dont think so. .
I also have vested interests in the UK, not alone and like so many others, be it a small investment or a larger one matters not, everyone in the UK is a contributor to its wealth and well being, (Well some are anyway).
How has it been a free trade block? in more often then not it has been a block, you got that correct, if a country produces a product at the right price and quality, if another country has a need for it, they will buy it, EU or no EU, if the EU is so successful to me it seems that a few countries are the ones propping up the, not so sharp one's, and even these are begging to show how shaky they are over us leaving, why? a short while ago they were telling anyone who would listen that we, the UK would go to hell now.
This government has basically been in power for a matter of weeks / months, meaning Mrs Mays government, not the fools before her, so as I said she has to be given a chance, and to be honest, and as I know very little about government and it's workings, she could be a force to be reckoned with...Given a chance that is.
How can you say 'We are so fortunate to have such a forward looking intelligent leadership who know what they are doing' when, as again I said they have really only been in power for weeks, not years, and the ones who had been in for a couple of years spoke of if we leave war will break out, where is the 'Intelligence' in that comment?
It seems by your words that this newish government, who are privy to so much more information then we could only dream of, hasn't a clue, but you know what 'Will' happen unreservedly, because we have left...
How does that work then?
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I definitely agree re economies producing sought after goods at the right price will always find willing buyers, NO need for Free Trade Blocks.
Free Trade Block only allows for goods to be produced to certain stated regulations to be allowed to be sold within that Block, sometimes excluding foodstuffs and other items available from many other non EU countries.
Globalisation is with us, like it or not, I have a German car, produced in the USA by American workers, shipped across the Atlantic possibly ing Panama registered cargo ship and sold in the UK as standard, presumably a number of countries get a slice of the profit.
Japanese cars are built in the UK, because we are efficient to be sold to the EU and elsewhere.
The car industry in the UK is booming, the U.K. Is the only country in Europe where new car registrations are above pre recession levels.
We have growth, albeit small, but that is the reason many EU nationals are heading to the UK to find work.
All these cars are supposedly built to EU regulations and standards, except they are not as we have discovered some manufacturers who heavily lobbyied EU Commissioners to offer deals on diesel cars, have been lying to us re the mpg returns, surprise, surprise.
As someone said, harmonise regulation for EU consumers rather than corporations and the electorate will support you.
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A donde el corazón se inclina, el pie camina.
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Can only imagine if we ever did have another referendum and the vote went the other way the UK could end up being the laughing stock of the world.
Voted out! Never left! Couldn't handle it! Voted to come back in....Are all the Brits born Pisces.
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10% of the population of the UK have been given a referendum on the breakup of the UK twice.
Now the Scot Nat's are talking of having a third vote (they call it a second).
Where is the democracy in that?
It is probably this example that makes people think they can ask for a referendum to be re-run.
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So often on this thread the subject of immigration is raised and quite rightly so as this was a major factor in the Brexit vote.
Human beings freedom of movement shall always be denied in order to protect assets from those who have those assets against those who have nothing. For example it would seem perfectly acceptable for a single human being to have 3 super yachts whilst another human being is forced to drink water from a stream that cows urinate in, because the later was born there and is denied the freedom to move elsewhere. It could be argued that all human beings should be born equal and have the right to live anywhere in this world because no one owns this world other than God, if indeed God exists. But through greed this is not the reality and we live in a society of ‘’I’m alright jack’’ I have got my semi in the UK or my villa in Spain. And even down to the British benefit claimer who never intends to do a day’s work in his/her life, because the benefit system is their asset.
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NO SNIDE COMMENTS PLEASE. STICK TO THE THREAD SUBJECT.
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You are correct on one level Mrs Tanner but I have assets and I do not want them protected at the expense of the less fortunate. Sharing I believe is one of the finer basic human instincts.
The EU represents some of the finer aspirations of human kind. Brexit the polar opposite. Brexit is about ugly nationalism and a fear of foreign integration and yes protecting assets they call employment prospects. Little did the voters understand that the greatest threat to employment come from leaving the EU not remaining.
Anyway it’s a done deal nothing, will stop the UK leaving the EU. The economic and social damage will begin in mid-2017 and continue for years to come.
I don’t buy this honeymoon period being anything more than it is. The markets know it, (Sterling is a reflection of that) politicians know it, financial institutions know it and most foreign investors know it. The melt down has not yet begun and the sad thing is there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to prevent it.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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Micky
I fear you may be trying to claim to be something you are not -
You say you "have assets and I do not want them protected at the expense of the less fortunate. Sharing I believe is one of the finer basic human instincts".
This begs the question - why do you still have assets and why have you not yet shared them?.
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The EU represents some of the finer aspirations of human kind. Brexit the polar opposite. Brexit is about ugly nationalism and a fear of foreign integration and yes protecting assets they call employment prospects. Little did the voters understand that the greatest threat to employment come from leaving the EU not remaining.
When you say 'The finer aspirations of human kind' do you by any chance mean the 'Fine Wines' they scoff while trying to sort out the worlds poorest problems.
The threat of unemployment comes from with-in, not leaving the EU, ask Slippery Green who unemployed 11.000 people while being in the EU, try the banks who when in the EU drop folk everywhere...And so on and so on.
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The EU shares it's wealth by giving the poorer member nations a greater slice of the cake to develop their infrastructure. The ECB bails out nations in financial trouble. Individual EU companies have wider access to funding from member state financial institutions. There is a collective security policy in which intelligence is shared.
These general objectives are supplemented by a list of more detailed objectives:
- an area of freedon,securityand justice without internal frontiers.
- an internal market where competition is free and undistorted;
- sustainable development, based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment;
- the promotion of scientific and technological advance;
- the combating of social exclusion and discrimination, and the promotion of social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child;
- the promotion of economic, social and territorial cohesion, and solidarity among Member States.
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_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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